Time-Sert vs HeliCoil (1 Viewer)

[Vae Victus]

I wanted to post this for folks who were looking at HeliCoil to fix broken bolts, and might want to know about an alternative that I think is superior, though much more costly.

Needing to fix several more broken bolts in the body of my '76 FJ40, I did a bunch of research on helicoil and came across Time-Sert, which I wasn't even aware of. After reading, I chose to go with TS and pay the difference for what looks to be a stronger product.

I purchased a 6mm kit with 5 inserts - and that set me back about $75. Now I've paid for a machine shop to helicoil 3 broken bolts in my exhaust manifold and possibly the intake (I forget honestly), but what I didn't forget is that each time I did that, it cost about $250 for one or two bolts. Therefore I see whether the $25 helicoil kit or $75 TS kit as a big money saver for me as a DIY.

What I like about the TS process is that the actual insert has an outer lip on it that you use a countersink to allow that lip to sit flush to the top of your part. Then the insert cannot be inserted too far into the hole.

From bottom: Drill bit, counter sink, tap, and insertion tool. To the right, the inserts.

Counter Sink

Insert


What I liked about the whole process was that once I had drilled out the hole, counter sunk, and tapped - screwing in the insert was like threading in a machine screw into a brand new part - it just screwed right in, no fuss, and then the last few threads expanded in place to hold the insert where it should stay.

 

[Vae Victus]

You can see here where I have already drilled, counter sunk, and tapped this hole. Comes out very clean. So far, not having done any Helicoil myself, I do like the TS process.

Love to have others give their Helicoil opinions and experience here. I know that the technology works and is the industry standard out there, so I'm sure there will be some supporters who can speak up.

You can see the counter-sink here

Finished product. Nice and clean.


Also purchased a small tool to help try to keep the holes you are drilling and tapping square. It's not a perfect solution but gives you a good relative feel if you are square or not.

Finally, if you are doing a 6mm replacement and don't want to f-up the very expensive bit that is in the TS kit, use a 15/64" bit to drill it out initially, then finish with the just slightly larger TS bit for the hole.

 

[Dizzy]

I apparently worked on a NASA project as a machinist. I was told that HeliCoil was new specification. Everything that was tapped had to be HeliCoiled, as it allows for better distribution of the tension holding the screw, plus it was a better thread material than the material tapped into. It allows for a larger diameter female thread. I got sick of fishing out those tangs on the end of the HeliCoil.

 

[Bear]

Vae,

Does the Time-Sert company state that their various size inserts will take the same amount of torque that the original threaded material would support? Also once you have the "kit" do they sell additional inserts at a bulk price?

Thx.

 

[whitey45]

As a longtime porsche tech and everything German, I have used time certs for 30 plus years, I highly recommend them for aluminum applications, I hate helicoils, always have. I have never had a time cert fail.... if done properly.... A lot of room for error.., Bear, you can buy the certs in bulk after the initial purchase of the Kit!

 

[Dizzy]

Torque specs are generally relative to the male thread - its diameter, and class. As, male threads need to stretch to resist disassembly. But they are weak because at the root of the thread (smallest diameter) fatigue, shearing, torsion, corrosion, begins to work its way thru the cross-section of the bolt / screw.

 

[1969FJ]

Seems the more expensive time sert is the better deal.

Thread Repair: Time-Sert vs. Helicoil

When it comes to thread repair, you have two main options: Helicoil and Time-Sert

www.motorcyclecruiser.com

 

[middlecalf]

I highly recommend them for aluminum applications

And for steel land cruisers?

 

[whitey45]

Cast iron is actually very easy to drill and tap for time certs. There isn’t much steel in German cars, so the bulk of my experience is with aluminum.

 

[badsamaritan]

This thread popped up at the perfect time for me. Thanks for posting

 

[Dynosoar]

I am also a huge fan of the time-serts. I have used them for years and never had a failure. I can't say the same about helicoils.

Dyno

 

[1911]

I've been using Helicoils for a long time (30-40 years?), because until recently I didn't know there was anything better. They work OK, if you drill the hole perfectly straight (which is not always easy to do). Time-sert looks like a superior method. I will definitely try them next time I repair a stripped thread.

 

[fjc-man]

Definitely better than helicoils.

 

[Vae Victus]

Seems the more expensive time-sert is the better deal.

Thread Repair: Time-Sert vs. Helicoil

When it comes to thread repair, you have two main options: Helicoil and Time-Sert

www.motorcyclecruiser.com

Interesting - thanks for posting. Haven't seen this.

EDIT: Actually i have seen this article. It's pretty short and full of opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. It's also repeated on other websites, verbtim. Doesn't mean it is false, but doesn't make it more true either.

There's just not much out there. I figure someone would have done an in-depth study on this. Maybe YouTube has all the good reviews. Haven't looked there on a comparison.

Here's what I found quickly:

Same Article:

Thread Repair: Time-Sert vs. Helicoil

When it comes to thread repair, you have two main options: Helicoil and Time-Sert

www.motorcyclecruiser.com

Bonnier LLC

Bonnier LLC is an outdoor adventure company that fuels passion for fishing, boating, sailing, motorsports, hunting and travel.

www.baggersmag.com

Very Similar (short, no research, opinion only):

Thread Inserts: HeliCoil or Time-Sert? | Toolmonger

Pretty good review by a mechanic:

Time-Sert Thread Repair - Corvette Product Reviews

<h1>Threads Strippped? Here's the Easy Fix!</h1> <p>If you're a regular DIY working on Corvettes, at one time or another you've probably stripped the threads out of a bolt hole or maybe someone else stripped threads out of a hole and you ended-up having to fix the problem.<br /><br />Damaged or...

www.corvetteactioncenter.com

 

[Vae Victus]

Vae,

Does the Time-Sert company state that their various size inserts will take the same amount of torque that the original threaded material would support? Also once you have the "kit" do they sell additional inserts at a bulk price?

Thx.

As stated above by @whitey45 - yes, you can buy them in bulk. In my limited research, Amazon had them. I see that they have 10 x 6mm steel for $16 ($1.60 each) or 10 x 6mm stainless for $36 (a whopping $3.60 each). Again, I think they are pricing by the value of the repair, not the value of the materials. You know you have a good product when you can price like that.

I'm not a shill for Time-Sert, just a novice FJ40 fan boy who likes to share stuff I've found with others. Glad this is helpful.

 

[Vae Victus]

Here is what Time-Sert says about their specs here @Bear :

What are the torque and pull out specifications for the TIME-SERT?
TIME-SERT makes no claims on torque specs or pullout, nor do we provide them. The reason being there are many factors that can determine the end result of the insert thread strength. One being the installation process.
1) Was the insert actually installed correctly using Time-Sert tools and square to the hole? This would have a huge effect on the outcome of the torque specification. Along with what type of material being inserted, plastics will not have the same torque values as aluminum's, steels, or cast irons. Another thing to keep in mind is the length of the insert. Inserts must match the length of the bolt threading into the hole. Too short of an insert length could result in thread failure.

TIME-SERT will state that if the thread repair is done correctly and with the proper length of insert used for the application e.g. the insert is the same length of the original thread engagement, the result should be a hole that should match the original torque specification of the hole.

Customers have found in their own testing data that TIME-SERT’s have exceeded their expectations. Many of our larger customers will test TIME-SERT’s before placing them in critical applications and find excellent results.

 

[Vae Victus]

Also interesting: They have a larger insert for holes previous repaired (by HeliCoil specifically)

15.	Can I repair a stripped helicoil with a TIME-SERT insert?
	No, you cannot repair a helicoil with a TIME-SERT. The over-sized line in inserts available is called BIG-SERT. Please refer to catalog or web page for sizes available. Link: BIG-SERT

 

[Tancruiser]

I’m a one man machine shop and use keenserts basically the same thing for all kinds of repairs and would not use helicoils unless it’s in a spot where you have no choice.

 

[Vae Victus]

I’m a one man machine shop and use keenserts basically the same thing for all kinds of repairs and would not use helicoils unless it’s in a spot where you have no choice.

Are you saying that Keenserts are similar to Time-Serts, i.e. with the countersunk lip on the insert?

EDIT: not countersunk, but has locking pins.... Interesting. Link below.

 

[Vae Victus]

Well, here ya go. Another technology I was not aware of. Thanks @Tancruiser

Bossard AG Schweiz - Verbindungstechnik, Engineering, Logistik

Bossard AG ist ein internationaler Spezialist für hochwertige Schrauben und Verbindungselemente sowie Logistiksysteme und Anwendungs-Engineering.

www.kvt-fastening.ch

And a good article on KeenSert vs HeliCoil.

and a good forum Q&A on Keen vs Time.

Another product, Lock N Stitch, from Full Torque products, for cast iron specifically, up to larger industrial sizes.

Even McMaster-Carr is in the game with these key-lock inserts.

ACME Industrial seems to do nothing but keylock inserts. Huge range of products here.

Wow, had no idea this all existed.