Rear Wheel Bearing Vibration?

[OregonLC]

My hunt for a vibration (that is worsening) has gone from pinion bearing (was just a leaking seal) to drive shaft (had it re-balanced and serviced, no change) to now thinking maybe rear wheel bearing. I can feel play in the passenger side by rocking it. Maybe 0.5 mm play, just enough that you can feel it. And you have to turn the wheel a bit to get it to develop the play, almost like there's a flat spot on the bearing or race. No such play on driver's side nor on our other 100.

Have traded out with identical wheels/tires from my trailer and no change. The only thing that made it go away was removing the rear shaft completely and driving in FWD. Vibration is fairly constant in the 58-68 mph range and does vary with engine torque but does not change at all by shifting. Exists both coasting and accelerating, although seems to be minimized when neutral throttle.

So I'm flummoxed. I would have expected a rear axle bearing to express itself with fluid leak first. Dry as a bone (yes there is full fluid in the axle). Any other ideas before I head to the dealer for a rear axle bearing job?

 

[Julian Stead]

U joint. A wheel bearing would still be noisey in 2wd. Remove the rear driveshaft, the u joints get stiff, even if there is no play in it, it will still vibrate if it is seized slightly. Mine had this issue. The vibration was severe at times.

 

[OregonLC]

U joint. A wheel bearing would still be noisey in 2wd. Remove the rear driveshaft, the u joints get stiff, even if there is no play in it, it will still vibrate if it is seized slightly. Mine had this issue. The vibration was severe at times.

Have already had the driveshaft out and re-balanced. Reputable shop in Portland (Driveline Serivice of Portland). It was out of balance and weights were moved/added. U-joints are in good shape and did not require replacement. 115k on the vehicle.

I'm with you on the thought that the wheel bearing should indifferent to power, however a) I feel that I've exhausted other possibilities and b) I can't explain the play at the rear passenger wheel unless there is a bad bearing.

 

[OregonLC]

Just to double verify, I just now swapped the propeller shaft from the 04 and the vibration stayed the same. So a known good drift shaft didn't solve the problem. Then drove it again without any propeller shaft installed (center locked, front drive) and vibration is primarily gone. I wouldn't say that it's butter, but the harshness under load or decel isn't there. So all indications are that the problem is south of the propeller shaft and related to torque (either positive or negative) on the rear axle.

That to me doesn't sound like wheel bearings, but I have a regionally trusted gear guy (Dan's Gears, Sherwood) who re-geared it and verified all is well with the differential. Further, I can't explain the play in the passenger rear wheel. Grabbing at 9:00 and 3:00 I don't feel that I should be able to have any play at all when I rock it and I do. Rear axle weight is typically 4,000 lbs or greater on the trail and I have 1" wheel spacers so I'd expect accelerated wear. Further, for a while it's smelled 'hot' back there. Not brake hot, just mechanically hot. Outboard of the rear rotors it lasers at 80C, too hot to touch.

Sidebar: The 03+ propeller shaft is significantly larger in diameter! And on our 04 LX, it appears to be installed backwards, LOL, with the slip yoke at the t-case side. Has been that way since before we bought it in 2013. FSM shows the slip yoke at the differential side so I'm pretty sure this isn't a pre/post 03 update thing.

 

[Sandroad]

The rear driveshaft on the '04 is factory installed with the slip joint at the t-case end.

When chasing my vibration a few years ago, new front/rear driveshafts solved the problem. However, in your case, noticable play (0.5mm) in a hot (176F) bearing lead me to agree it's time for a new wheel bearing.

I think (but don't actually know) that a symptom like that vibration could show up only under torque load and not when "free-wheeling". So, it seems your experiments support the bad bearing idea.

And one more thought: the bearing could easily rumble a bit before the seal went bad and leaked.

 

[bwell]

I think you have isolated it to a wheel bearing, it should definitely not get that hot from normal driving. Surprised you aren't getting any audible noise from it.

 

[Manhattan]

When you remove the rear shaft, it also takes the rear/back side of the t-case out to the equation... output shaft/bearing?

 

[OregonLC]

When you remove the rear shaft, it also takes the rear/back side of the t-case out to the equation too... output shaft/bearing?

Could definitely be that too, although that would still be spinning with the t-case locked just without any load. So hard to tell the origin of harmonics but it feels like its coming from behind and directly below.

I think I'm going to have the dealer do the rear bearings first. That seems like it has the highest probability at this point, though far from certain. I won't feel bad about doing them as I'm sure they've been stressed. Hopefully I have a good service writer who can correctly relay the troubleshooting thus far to the tech...

 

[Manhattan]

I feel your pain. The guys at ACC chased a vibration on my 100 with similar frustration - and they're well, the guys at ACC. They'd swapped the CVs (leaking, etc.) and within 100 miles, a vibration showed up. The front shaft was found to be dented and had a bad U-joint - out it came and made new again... vibration still there. One of the new shafts was swapped (everyone agreed the vibe was on that side). Wheel bearings were inspected and set, U-joints and rear shaft inspected... and on it went. At one point, all evidence pointed to the front dif'. The whole time, Towers was saying "I'll bet ya that other is the culprit." In the end, it was a new Toyota CV that was bad. But holy &$*@, it was frustrating.

 

[OregonLC]

I've wondered if maybe it's a CV. They've been rebooted and greased but are still original. But it sure feels like it's coming from the rear and when it's front wheel drive it's smooth.

 

[abuck99]

Vibes can travel the driveline from back to front & vice versa making it hard to nail down where it's originating from. Do you feel anything through the steering wheel or is it all through your seat? On a scale of 1-10 how bad?


I have a similar situation to yours so I am interested to know what your eventual solution is.

I recently rebooted both front CV axles(OEM)- I was meticulous in match marking how they came apart to ensure they went back together the same. Fwiw only parts that didn't get matched were the ball bearings. I didn't notice any new vibes after that job.

Pre CV rebuild, I had a slight vibe on acceleration in the 60-70mph range. I was at 174k miles so FF 1 month and I pulled the propshafts to replace ujoints(OEM) on both prop shafts, and had them balanced. Had vibes in the front post balancing- removed and took it back for check and they said it was good. Wasn't convinced.

Took the rear back out and took it to a different specialist who has a better high speed balancer- it needed straightening/trueing and was not balanced perfectly either. I reinstalled an it was smoother but not perfect. So I pulled the front propshaft back off and took it to the same place to have it checked, trued and rebalanced.

I still have a noticeable slight( 2 out of 10) vibe in the 60-70 mph range I don't feel it under 60 and it goes away at 75-80. Had the front wheels rebalanced, that didn't make much difference. I haven't put any further effort into chasing it. Next step would be rotating the drive shaft on the flange one turn and see if the vibe changes, rebalancing wheels maybe I'm kind of at a loss my self. Just going to drive it (either under 60mph or over 80mph .

Your problem, like mine could be flanges, yokes, poorly pressed ujoints, output shaft bearings, propshafts tires, misaligned 3rd, CVs.....

Last note- I've heard some shops don't like to replace just ujoints- Prefer new proshaft and ujoints together (maybe for this reason). Not sure I subscribe to that but suppose it's plausible. Same with CV axle rebooting- some prefer new to rebooting as the chances for getting vibes from reassembly are possible.

Keep us posted, hopefully you get it sorted.

 

[OregonLC]

Pretty sure it's not propeller shaft at this point as I've swapped it with a known good one and the vibration continues. Could be in the front, but it goes away when running in just front wheel drive so I'm leaning away from that as a possibility. No vibration at all in the steering wheel, it is felt in the seat. Rattles the change in the ash tray so I'd say 6-7 out of 10 on the vibration scale.

I've held my hand on the transfer case lever and don't feel it particularly stronger there so I'm not thinking output shaft bearing, but that doesn't mean it's not the case.

 

[abuck99]

I read a good thread in the 80 section a while back on driveshaft PM - relevant to a 100 would be prop shafts, ujoints, diff, flanges, t case. Drive Shaft PM and Drive Train Troubleshooting- For FAQ

FWIW Also read some info on too much grease in the prop shaft splines can cause the Grr. Said to require cleaning out- it is one thing I did not check when I serviced my driveshafts. Going to pull the zerks and see if any pressure is built up and grease flows out.

 

[Manhattan]

An old builder told me a cool, simple rule for locating vibrations - front vs back.... "If you feel it in the steering wheel, it's the front. If you feel it in your ass, it's the rear" Said it works for tires, drive train

 

[OregonLC]

So here's an interesting observation: the worst vibration can be induced at 58 mph and half throttle (any gear). It will rattle the change in the ashtray, but not shake the wheel. However, if I apply light to moderate foot brake pressure while still at half throttle the vibration nearly goes away. This seems to point to something at the wheels where the clamping action of the calipers is dampening whatever is vibrating. I wanted to try the same with the hand brake but I ran out of highway before I could try. Will try that on the way home.

 

[Sandroad]

So here's an interesting observation: the worst vibration can be induced at 58 mph and half throttle (any gear). It will rattle the change in the ashtray, but not shake the wheel. However, if I apply light to moderate foot brake pressure while still at half throttle the vibration nearly goes away. This seems to point to something at the wheels where the clamping action of the calipers is dampening whatever is vibrating. I wanted to try the same with the hand brake but I ran out of highway before I could try. Will try that on the way home.

Another line of evidence toward a rough wheel bearing, or so it seems.

 

[hoser]

Perhaps a rear pinion angle issue?

 

[OregonLC]

Perhaps a rear pinion angle issue?

Could be, however there's not much of a lift after 4,000 lbs rests on that axle, and it's been at the same angle for the last six years. I do have adjustable MT links top and bottom in the rear and it did occur to me to clock the nose up a few degrees.

 

[abuck99]

If anything, the diff is probably pointing up already, not down ( unless you corrected that when you installed the uppers). Taller springs have the effect of wrapping the diff angle upwards- but with all that weight you prob dont have that problem. Fwiw Harbor freight makes a nice little digital angle finder- magnetic, and small enough to tuck in-between the flange bolts on the diff and t-case so you can get an accurate reading.

A short in the dark question- Has the axle shifted left to right or vice versa- pan hard bar pulling it more to one side? This can affect the lateral run out of the driveshaft, affecting the u-joint.

 

[OregonLC]

A short in the dark question- Has the axle shifted left to right or vice versa- pan hard bar pulling it more to one side? This can affect the lateral run out of the driveshaft, affecting the u-joint.

Haven't measured it, but highly doubtful. Looks even from behind and the panhard rod is stock and not bent. Might have pulled slightly with the arc of the lift, but shouldn't be enough to induce vibrations, else everyone here with a lift would have the same.