old cruiser first time timing adjustment: mark will not align. what is next step? (1 Viewer)

[gwolf3]

hey guys,

first timer doing a timing adjustment on my dads old '97 landcruiser. its been running pretty well, but had a feeling timing needed an adjustment. had been following instructions here but hit a snag:

i hooked everything up, following the timing adjustment instructions from another thread there. this included:
- engine to op temp
- wire the DLC1 to disable electronic timing adjustments
- set engine to N
- connect light to spark plug #1

here's the issue: even when distributor adjustment is in the most advanced position - the timing mark on the pulley is still about 15-20 degrees below the "0" mark. adjusting the other direction nearly results in engine stall. so i guess this means the timing was not installed correctly?

can someone point me in the right direction for next steps to get the timing fixed? i'm hoping i wont have to pull off the valve cover (literally just replaced that gasket...)

thanks,
glenn

 

[manofthewoods]

Just a wild guess...
Maybe you are 1 tooth off.
I'm still putting my engine back together (put pistons in today), so haven't ever timed a 1fz, but that's my 2 pennies

 

[gwolf3]

I found this instructions for installing the dist: https://lc100e.github.io/manual/rm/rm321e/m_ig_0015.pdf

Would it be as simple as removing the dist cap and making sure that the rotor looks right when its set to cylinder 1 compression? - should be at 11 oclock right?

 

[ppc]

Visual only gets you in the ballpark. You need to use a timing light to set it properly. Make sure the E1 and TE1 are jumpered together in the diagnostic to place the ECM in base mode then the light pointed at the timing marks on the front of the crankshaft/harmonic balancer will indicate the current timing. Rotate the distributor to get it pointed at 3 degrees before top dead center which is the factory spec. If that can not be done then you need to pull the distributor and reinstall one tooth in the appropriate direction. If you want more performance you can advance to 6 degrees or a little until you get preignition or knocking.

 

[smritte]

I don't know if its possible with Cruisers but my Chevy 454 in my old truck, the balancer ring slipped. The rubber rotted allowing the outer section to turn slightly. I confirmed it by looking where the key way was in relation to the timing mark.

 

[wpns4l]

Sounds like you are having the same issues I did with my 93. Question on timing 1fz - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/question-on-timing-1fz.1255309/

I haven't solved the problem yet and believe that perhaps the timing chain was installed wrong or my HB is broke. There is a lot of photos of how things should and should not look though in my thread i linked.

 

[Vasiliy]

Just a thought. I've heard rumors that if you pull your truck on a rope, the chain can jump by tooth. If Soo... Align the mark on the crankshaft HB with 0 on chain cover (front piston closest to you should be at TDC, you may need to rotate the crankshaft twice for this)
then open valve cover and measure dots on camshafts. More info in Factory service manual

 

[ToyotaDon]

Another key item that effects ignition timing is Throttle Position Sensor adjustment. You should be able to "bump" the throttle while watching the timing mark and see it jump up significantly, then drop back down when the throttle closes. If that's not the case, look to the FSM for proper adjustment of the TPS.

 

[jonheld]

Just a thought. I've heard rumors that if you pull your truck on a rope, the chain can jump by tooth.

Whaaaa?

 

[gwolf3]

Hey guys, thanks for all the timing suggestions. In my case, the 'problem' seems to go deeper:

After setting the pulley mark to the zero, and reinstalling the distributor following specifications (this includes jumping the DLC1 wire, engine to N, etc), I checked with timing light and the spark plug #1 timing was indeed back at zero - all good right?

However, the engine was running TERRIBLE - misfiring all over the place (every cylinder). I tried tweaking around with it, but noticed the only way to make it run better was to retard the timing back towards where it was when I started. So ended up pulling distributor back off and putting it back where it was originally.

So my only guess is that the qualified professionals who last worked on this engine for my dad did not set the timing chain back up properly. Are there any other things that I should consider here? Fortunately the engine is running fine back where it is, but it bothers me that its not running "spec" - I usually always enjoy being more scientific about this stuff. I'm not in the mood to pull my valve cover back off to check the timing chain and cam shafts, so I'm gonna leave it like that for now.

Is this a reasonable conclusion, or would anyone advise me differently?

 

[ColoradoBoy]

Hey guys, thanks for all the timing suggestions. In my case, the 'problem' seems to go deeper:

After setting the pulley mark to the zero, and reinstalling the distributor following specifications (this includes jumping the DLC1 wire, engine to N, etc), I checked with timing light and the spark plug #1 timing was indeed back at zero - all good right?

However, the engine was running TERRIBLE - misfiring all over the place (every cylinder). I tried tweaking around with it, but noticed the only way to make it run better was to retard the timing back towards where it was when I started. So ended up pulling distributor back off and putting it back where it was originally.

So my only guess is that the qualified professionals who last worked on this engine for my dad did not set the timing chain back up properly. Are there any other things that I should consider here? Fortunately the engine is running fine back where it is, but it bothers me that its not running "spec" - I usually always enjoy being more scientific about this stuff. I'm not in the mood to pull my valve cover back off to check the timing chain and cam shafts, so I'm gonna leave it like that for now.

Is this a reasonable conclusion, or would anyone advise me differently?

The old gearheads I was around growing up always scoffed and said just keep making small changes until you find the rig's "sweet spot" for timing and forget about all the factory timing marks... But, I'm like you- would rather have it set up to visually verify numbers/performance. Maybe just wait until it is time to replace valve cover gasket/adjust valves and fix it then?
Cheers!

 

[BILT4ME]

Hey guys, thanks for all the timing suggestions. In my case, the 'problem' seems to go deeper:

After setting the pulley mark to the zero, and reinstalling the distributor following specifications (this includes jumping the DLC1 wire, engine to N, etc), I checked with timing light and the spark plug #1 timing was indeed back at zero - all good right?

However, the engine was running TERRIBLE - misfiring all over the place (every cylinder). I tried tweaking around with it, but noticed the only way to make it run better was to retard the timing back towards where it was when I started. So ended up pulling distributor back off and putting it back where it was originally.

So my only guess is that the qualified professionals who last worked on this engine for my dad did not set the timing chain back up properly. Are there any other things that I should consider here? Fortunately the engine is running fine back where it is, but it bothers me that its not running "spec" - I usually always enjoy being more scientific about this stuff. I'm not in the mood to pull my valve cover back off to check the timing chain and cam shafts, so I'm gonna leave it like that for now.

Is this a reasonable conclusion, or would anyone advise me differently?

Pulling the VC on a 97 is no big deal. You can reuse the gasket, as it's only compression and the bolts go to a stop, so it's not smashing it. If it's bee thousands of miles and a ton of heat cycles, maybe, but if I was having those kind of timing issues, I'd start at the beginning, assuming, of course, that you truly know what you're doing. If not, then you may be opening a new can of worms, but you WILL learn!

 

[hatzlibutzli]

Remove the spark plug on cylinder No 1. and put a thin stick like 6 inches long in to approximate your real TDC ... if it is 20 degrees off your harmonic balancer mark, then the HB has slipped (in my case due to a bad, suddenly blocked bearing of the AC-tentioner) ... then you will need a new HB and there is no need to open the engine at all.
Regards from Bavaria .... Simon

 

[cruisermatt]

Just a thought. I've heard rumors that if you pull your truck on a rope, the chain can jump by tooth. If Soo... Align the mark on the crankshaft HB with 0 on chain cover (front piston closest to you should be at TDC, you may need to rotate the crankshaft twice for this)
then open valve cover and measure dots on camshafts. More info in Factory service manual

best comedy ive heard this week. Thanks

 

[ppc]

After setting the pulley mark to the zero, and reinstalling the distributor following specifications (this includes jumping the DLC1 wire, engine to N, etc), I checked with timing light and the spark plug #1 timing was indeed back at zero - all good right?

First off the specification for timing is 3 degrees BTDC - Before Top Dead Center, not zero as as you stated. You also stated jumping DLC1 wire. You need to jump E1 and TE1 and verify the CEL on the dash is flashing in a steady fashion, but because you are not precise we don't know if you did that properly.

However, the engine was running TERRIBLE - misfiring all over the place (every cylinder). I tried tweaking around with it, but noticed the only way to make it run better was to retard the timing back towards where it was when I started. So ended up pulling distributor back off and putting it back where it was originally.

Again you stated you moved the distributor but how much? If you move it then shine the timing light back on the crank and post the reading.

Don't be so lazy in posting specific detailed information as without it you're not going to get good help..

Have you also verified that all of the spark plug wires are in the correct position on the distributor cap and the other end is connected to the proper cylinder?