Oil change intervals with synthetic oil?

[Tareq]

Is the Mobil1 Extended Performance 5w30 (which claims to be good for 20k miles interval) really good for 20k miles (provided Mobil1 oil filter is used)? Or do people still keep 10k-mile interval even if this oil is used?

M1 EP 5W-30
30 months interval
19,084 mi
2008 4 Runner V8

M1 EP 5W-30, 30 mo 19,084 mi, 2008 4 Runner V8

Quite a test of this oil, it was in service from Dec 17 until Jun 20 or 2 1/2 years. A lot of life got in the way on this run. Was driven very little for about a year while deployed. 1/2 qt added at 10k mi. Used a Fram XG 3614, will be cutting open soon. Refilled with same oil and filter...

bobistheoilguy.com

Seen another report before with Toyota zz3 filter with 20k miles as well.

 

[BullElk]

Why would a subjective and random number of miles be a more logical reason to change oil than an objective indicator like dark and dirty? What are miles telling you about your oil that is more important than color and smell?

 

[Rhetoric]

Why would a subjective and random number of miles be a more logical reason to change oil than an objective indicator like dark and dirty? What are miles telling you about your oil that is more important than color and smell?

Interesting logic.

Doesn’t work too well with diesel oil, though. Black and smells like sulfur after the first run. Yet in my old TDI worked great for 10k mile changes…

 

[Rednexus]

5K in both of our Toyotas. Both Mobil 1. It's cheap and easy to change and, particularly with a Fumoto valve, and Toyota filters are cheap as well.

 

[newbielx470]

Is Blackstone Lab's recommended interval trustworthy enough as a highly scientific source? (i.e. By adhering to their recommended interval since bought new, and getting oil samples analyzed by them every a few oil changes, and assuming all other maintenance items/schedules are strictly kept up, can get me 1 million miles?)

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Is Blackstone Lab's recommended interval trustworthy enough as a highly scientific source? (i.e. By adhering to their recommended interval since bought new, and getting oil samples analyzed by them every a few oil changes, and assuming all other maintenance items/schedules are strictly kept up, can get me 1 million miles?)

You are making the assumption that oil quality is the only variable that affects wear on an engine. You will have wear regardless of the oil quality. So maybe the question you should ask is, how many miles can I expect out of my engine assuming my oil is "perfect". Pretty sure Toyota didn't design your engine to go 1 millions miles before needing a rebuild.

 

[Rednexus]

Is Blackstone Lab's recommended interval trustworthy enough as a highly scientific source? (i.e. By adhering to their recommended interval, assuming all other maintenance items/schedules are strictly kept up, can get me 1 million miles?)

It's probably worth thinking about it in a cost-benefit framework. A Blackstone test is $35. 7Q of M1 5W30 is around $42 (1.5 5Q jugs from Wally World); a Toyota filter is around $4.50. So if you are able to double your OCI from 5K to 10K and drive 10K a year, you'd save around $47 (rounding here) per year in oil/filters, if you're changing it yourself. Assuming you test every oil change, you save $12 per year. If it's ever second oil change, you save $59 every two years or $30 every year on average with the Blackstone testing.

Seems like a pretty low ROI to me, even without considering the applicability of a Blackstone test to the actual performance of the oil in the engine and the risk of engine wear (for my field I work with lab testing results all the time - not for oil - but there is always a difference between what a lab test says and what happens in the real world - lab tests are often mis-characterized or aren't representative of in-situ conditions - but are nevertheless very valuable). The ROI won't get any better if you're only going to something like an 8K OCI.

However, lab results are still something, and going to the testing with extended OCIs could make sense if you paying a shop to change your oil or if you drive a ton of miles. I would not be opposed to doing some testing on my rig, but maybe in the context of seeing the impacts of using a cheaper oil like Valvoline MaxLife, not stretching the OCIs to 10K.

I personally like getting under my rig every 5K anyway to grease U-joints/suspension components, check CV boots, rotate tires, check the spare, etc. With a Fumoto valve it's super easy to change the oil on my rig; I don't even have to get it off the ground if I don't want to.

 

[BullElk]

You are making the assumption that oil quality is the only variable that affects wear on an engine. You will have wear regardless of the oil quality. So maybe the question you should ask is, how many miles can I expect out of my engine assuming my oil is "perfect". Pretty sure Toyota didn't design your engine to go 1 millions miles before needing a rebuild.

Ironically I think not driving a 2UZFE, keeping miles low, will do more “wear” damage than changing clean oil at some even mileage number. But Toyota as well as other companies must tell you something regarding maintenance intervals so even numbers and even months is the easiest.

 

[uHu]

Another factor to consider is temperature. If in an environment with freezing temperatures, you can get condensation - which is not good for lubrication. An oil change every year, whatever short mileage, is recommended.
And, as redNex says 2 posts up, the U-joints have to be lubed more often than engine oil changed, if you want them to last. Max 5 k miles. More often if salted roads or water crossing (fording).

Further up this thread there was something about a "better" Mobile1 filter. Afaik, there is no better filter than the Toyota OEM.

 

[Moderator]

Is the Mobil1 Extended Performance 5w30 (which claims to be good for 20k miles interval) really good for 20k miles (provided Mobil1 oil filter is used)? Or do people still keep 10k-mile interval even if this oil is used?


(Link to Walmart ad)

Mobil 1 Extended Performance Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30, 5 Quart - Walmart.com

Buy Mobil 1 Extended Performance Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-30, 5 Quart at Walmart.com

www.walmart.com

I'm going with 10K changes with this 20K oil. That's about once a year for me.

 

[Jack90210]

I have been using the standard Mobil1 5w30, and after three sequential Blackstone test results they thought I would be fine with 13k-14k mile change intervals (daily commute is mixed driving, with some occasional long trips) so I settled on 10k, which is about 12 months for me. Filters were either Mo1 or Napa Gold.

 

[Rednexus]

Does Blackstone provide any kind of warranty/guarantee based on their recommendations? For example for me as a P.E., if I make a recommendation to a paying client based on my assessment of their laboratory data and other factors, and the client follows my recommendation only to find that it's incorrect and incurs subsequent damages, I'm personally and professionally liable for some portion of those damages.

I'm curious on if, lets say Blackstone recommended 12K and the engine wore out early due to lubrication issues at that OCI, if Blackstone would pay for a new engine based on their recommendation being incorrect.

I don't want to discount or ignore the testing that's been done, since I do the same kind of thing for a living as an engineer, and I haven't heard any reports of Blackstone tests/recommendations being wrong. Just curious on if Blackstone would actually stand by their recommendation or if there would be a long/expensive legal fight (probably exceeding the cost of the engine) to recover damages if they are wrong.

 

[Jack90210]

Does Blackstone provide any kind of warranty/guarantee based on their recommendations? For example for me as a P.E., if I make a recommendation to a paying client based on my assessment of their laboratory data and other factors, and the client follows my recommendation only to find that it's incorrect and incurs subsequent damages, I'm personally and professionally liable for some portion of those damages.

I'm curious on if, lets say Blackstone recommended 12K and the engine wore out early due to lubrication issues at that OCI, if Blackstone would pay for a new engine based on their recommendation being incorrect.

I don't want to discount or ignore the testing that's been done, since I do the same kind of thing for a living as an engineer, and I haven't heard any reports of Blackstone tests/recommendations being wrong. Just curious on if Blackstone would actually stand by their recommendation or if there would be a long/expensive legal fight (probably exceeding the cost of the engine) to recover damages if they are wrong.

There are no guarantees, but if you want to make an informed decision, then oil analysis based upon your own drain is about as close as you can get.

For what it's worth, the fleet industry depends heavily upon lubricant analysis for maintenance schedules that hit a sweet spot of minimizing cost and downtime while maximizing the investment.

 

[TexLexican]

Is Blackstone Lab's recommended interval trustworthy enough as a highly scientific source? (i.e. By adhering to their recommended interval since bought new, and getting oil samples analyzed by them every a few oil changes, and assuming all other maintenance items/schedules are strictly kept up, can get me 1 million miles?)

It is not trustworthy. The proper way to analyze oil and how the engine wears is to send samples every 1000 miles for 5000 miles (as an example) from the same oil. People sending one sample per oil change does not build a proper oil analysis trend. Even if they compare to every other 2UZ engine out there all engines wear different.

Blackstone samples are only reliable to see if there’s any kind of contamination.

 

[Rednexus]

There are no guarantees, but if you want to make an informed decision, then oil analysis based upon your own drain is about as close as you can get.

For what it's worth, the fleet industry depends heavily upon lubricant analysis for maintenance schedules that hit a sweet spot of minimizing cost and downtime while maximizing the investment.

I think that takes using Blackstone to extend out my OCI off the table for me. If they are making a specific recommendation on miles allowable for the oil but not standing behind it in case they are wrong, then they are putting all of the risk on their paying customers yet reaping the all of the reward ($35 per test). That being said I may still run a test just to check on my wear metals, but will not use it for not much more than that.

Oil testing definitely makes sense with the fleet industry, although presumably the fleet maintenance folks have staff member(s)/engineers with the education and experience to accurately characterize the results of the lubricant analysis and, considering other factors, determine an appropriate change interval. I'm going to guess that very few of us in the forum fall into that bucket. I certainly don't, which is why I'll follow the recommendation of the Toyota engineers who do.

I also know how difficult it is to interpret the tests that I work with - you really need a M.S. degree and years of experience to understand them, and yet people still mis-interpret them all of the time anyway.

 

[suzuguru]

I would say my driving habits are typical of most people. In my Tacoma, about half of my miles are hwy, with the balance being city. I run Mobil 1 synthetic 10w-30 along with a Mobil 1 filter. I typically run about 10k miles between changes, but if I go over, I don't sweat it. I think I went 15k last time. I'm sitting at 262k miles currently, with no issues. I've done this in all of my vehicles for years now. No issues so far.

 

[nissanh]

FYI Walmart have Castrol Advance Full Synthetic (not the high mileage) 10W-30 1 gallon at $21.5. I bought 6 gallons yesterday.

 

[Jack90210]

I think that takes using Blackstone to extend out my OCI off the table for me. If they are making a specific recommendation on miles allowable for the oil but not standing behind it in case they are wrong, then they are putting all of the risk on their paying customers yet reaping the all of the reward ($35 per test). That being said I may still run a test just to check on my wear metals, but will not use it for not much more than that.

Oil testing definitely makes sense with the fleet industry, although presumably the fleet maintenance folks have staff member(s)/engineers with the education and experience to accurately characterize the results of the lubricant analysis and, considering other factors, determine an appropriate change interval. I'm going to guess that very few of us in the forum fall into that bucket. I certainly don't, which is why I'll follow the recommendation of the Toyota engineers who do.

I also know how difficult it is to interpret the tests that I work with - you really need a M.S. degree and years of experience to understand them, and yet people still mis-interpret them all of the time anyway.

With regards to your second paragraph, that is part of what you pay for: Blackstone analyzes (by way of education and expertise) the oil with respect to what they find, and in comparison to the many other UZJ100 motors for which they've analyzed drain oil. It's only one data point, but it's a useful one. Similarly, fleet maintenance staff don't have to have graduate degrees in tribology if this expertise can be outsourced as part of oil analysis.

Further, the optional TBN test can determine the level of additives left in the oil as a means of verifying an appropriate drain interval.

All of this puts me at risk of sounding like a shill for Blackstone, which I am not; I simply think that it's helpful to know what oil analysis can and can't do, and what you receive as part of the service.

 

[Live to Ski]

I prefer the "head in the sand" model. do the changes within reason (10K+) using reasonable quality ingrediants (oil/filter)....drive on.

W/R to oil analysis, that model implies that a) as noted above, valid interpretation, b) if you see some out of whack reading, what will you do about it....tear the engine down w/o any other symptoms/signs? Now, running some of those tracks in australia/asia, that might warrant pre trip engine tear down.

My motto: If you look (beyond resonablenes) you will find.

 

[BullElk]

^^^^^....to add. How many more quality miles with zero major issues will I get, above the 427k I currently have, if I spend more money on more expensive oil, spend said money more often on clean oil at some subjective mileage interval and pay for oil analysis several times a year.....to tell me nothing that will really matter short of a new engine as mentioned.

However, I do agree there is a value represented by currencey exchanged for the fun, enjoyment and peace of mind the above may provide to some of which I am not one.