Long Travel AHC

[nwfl4runner]

Who else is excited about the new Tacoma electronic sway bar disconnect? I'll be interested to see what mechanism they use, and if it can be retrofitted to the LX...

 

[tbisaacs]

I'm starting to accumulate parts for a rear LT setup and have a few clarifying questions for those who have done this:

• If you are running AHC and the rear coil spacers and the shock relocation, will your LX still go into low? What happens when it drops at highway speeds?
• Are the rear coil spacers strictly necessary? Could you run stock coils? Could you run the heavier 100-series coils?

What I'm trying to get at is will I lose ability to go into low, and more importantly will it create a funky ride at highway speeds.

Thanks!

 

[Jason Andrews]

I'm starting to accumulate parts for a rear LT setup and have a few clarifying questions for those who have done this:

• If you are running AHC and the rear coil spacers and the shock relocation, will your LX still go into low? What happens when it drops at highway speeds?
• Are the rear coil spacers strictly necessary? Could you run stock coils? Could you run the heavier 100-series coils?

What I'm trying to get at is will I lose ability to go into low, and more importantly will it create a funky ride at highway speeds.

Thanks!

I had some similar questions. I believe with locating the rear shocks up 1.75" it will raise the high, normal, and low that same amount. Wanted to confirm that.

My plan was to return the AHC "lift" back to stock settings by moving the sensor brackets back to OEM position or possibly a little 'lower' to keep the sameish amount of static height as before modding the shock mounts. Can someone clarify that is how it would work?? Thanks

 

[Expoguy]

I'm starting to accumulate parts for a rear LT setup and have a few clarifying questions for those who have done this:

• If you are running AHC and the rear coil spacers and the shock relocation, will your LX still go into low? What happens when it drops at highway speeds?
• Are the rear coil spacers strictly necessary? Could you run stock coils? Could you run the heavier 100-series coils?

What I'm trying to get at is will I lose ability to go into low, and more importantly will it create a funky ride at highway speeds.

Thanks!

Still working on mine but you must also make sensor adjustment. If you do both sensor adjustment and spring change you should maintain a good ride as ahc pressures will be in range. The rear shock spacers will increase droop travel but don't think it will effect ride. Still learning and hope this makes sense.

 

[Killacaviar]

I had some similar questions. I believe with locating the rear shocks up 1.75" it will raise the high, normal, and low that same amount. Wanted to confirm that.

My plan was to return the AHC "lift" back to stock settings by moving the sensor brackets back to OEM position or possibly a little 'lower' to keep the sameish amount of static height as before modding the shock mounts. Can someone clarify that is how it would work?? Thanks

I'm starting to accumulate parts for a rear LT setup and have a few clarifying questions for those who have done this:

• If you are running AHC and the rear coil spacers and the shock relocation, will your LX still go into low? What happens when it drops at highway speeds?
• Are the rear coil spacers strictly necessary? Could you run stock coils? Could you run the heavier 100-series coils?

What I'm trying to get at is will I lose ability to go into low, and more importantly will it create a funky ride at highway speeds.

Thanks!

I have been running the rear shock relocation and 40mm of spacers on top of the coil spring.

I will say this… the ride is overall improved. I have no front sway bar with 24mm of spacer on top of the coil over as well.

My heights have remained the same (in alignment with a sensor lift), I still drop at 65mph and still have full functionality of all height settings and all comfort levels.

I very much enjoy the boaty feel in Comfort and use comfort everywhere except on the highway. At speeds over 65 I am in sport mode and still rip down I70 at 80-90 with 35in MT with ease.

I run timberin bumps all around and the rear have been spaced down .5 inches.

I rub the rear slightly when I’m fully stuffed and flexed out. But only on the rear of the fender well, not the top. Someone with a metal rear bumper should be aware of this.

Your rear axle will walk backwards as you flex it out.

Unless you body lift or add a sensor lift bracket. Nothing you do the front or rear suspension parts will increase or decrease lift! The front and rear modifications simply aid in tons more travel. Not lift height.

 

[tbisaacs]

I have been running the rear shock relocation and 40mm of spacers on top of the coil spring.

I will say this… the ride is overall improved. I have no front sway bar with 24mm of spacer on top of the coil over as well.

My heights have remained the same (in alignment with a sensor lift), I still drop at 65mph and still have full functionality of all height settings and all comfort levels.

I very much enjoy the boaty feel in Comfort and use comfort everywhere except on the highway. At speeds over 65 I am in sport mode and still rip down I70 at 80-90 with 35in MT with ease.

I run timberin bumps all around and the rear have been spaced down .5 inches.

I rub the rear slightly when I’m fully stuffed and flexed out. But only on the rear of the fender well, not the top. Someone with a metal rear bumper should be aware of this.

Your rear axle will walk backwards as you flex it out.

Unless you body lift or add a sensor lift bracket. Nothing you do the front or rear suspension parts will increase or decrease lift! The front and rear modifications simply aid in tons more travel. Not lift height.

Thanks this helps. Mostly concerned about losing ability to go into low. However I forgot about the flex steer. I already rub my bumper and I’m not yet running a 12.50

 

[Expoguy]

I had some similar questions. I believe with locating the rear shocks up 1.75" it will raise the high, normal, and low that same amount. Wanted to confirm that.

My plan was to return the AHC "lift" back to stock settings by moving the sensor brackets back to OEM position or possibly a little 'lower' to keep the sameish amount of static height as before modding the shock mounts. Can someone clarify that is how it would work?? Thanks

Imo the shock mount only changes droop travel and the ahc system determines ride height. The spring pre load is necessary in conjunction with sensor lift to maintain pressures and ride quality.

 

[lx200inAR]

Adding the spacer in the rear alone will only change the preload on the springs. Nothing will lift until the sensors are adjusted.

I think @1world1love runs the terrain tamer springs in the rear, and he says he has trouble getting to Low now. More weight could resolve that issue for him if he was worried about it. I think the OEM option is actually to try and find an 80 series rear spring. I think the 100 series AHC springs are too light and the 100 series non ahc would be too heavy. I know there's a post somewhere that lists out the spring rates on all the options that might work for AHC.


edit, did a little digging and possibly the LC80 series and the LC100 (non AHC) had the same rear spring. But the LX80 series had a lighter spring. From a post in 100 series forum.

Name	Rate	Free Length
OEM 100 AHC Rear Springs	90 lbs/in	Didn't record
King KTRS-79	130 lbs/in	17 3/8 inch
80 Series LX450	150 lbs/in	D 18 1/2, P 17 1/2 inches
80 Series LC	170 lbs/in	Didn't measure when I had them out

 

[TeCKis300]

I'm starting to accumulate parts for a rear LT setup and have a few clarifying questions for those who have done this:

• If you are running AHC and the rear coil spacers and the shock relocation, will your LX still go into low? What happens when it drops at highway speeds?
• Are the rear coil spacers strictly necessary? Could you run stock coils? Could you run the heavier 100-series coils?

What I'm trying to get at is will I lose ability to go into low, and more importantly will it create a funky ride at highway speeds.

Thanks!

To echo others, it should all still work and ride well. The AHC system won't know any difference with the shock relocation kit as the shocks are not position sensitive. The AHC height sensors IIRC are on the upper trailing arms and it's not a requirement that you'll need to adjust for this. The only thing it does is physically bias travel for droop rather than compression as you'll need to limit travel by 1" or so. Perhaps good to run with some minor sensor lift from stock to keep enough compression travel, which you have already done.

Yes, you'll still need the coil spacers you already have installed for the original sensor lift. The shock bracket doesn't change pressure in the AHC shock, just changes neutral volume but the AHC system is not measuring that. For your setup that is heavy, maybe 100-series coils. But I would temper others that unless you're really heavy, to not get caught up in more spring rate. Can't just think about compression, as a higher spring rate unloads faster in droop travel if that makes sense.

 

[Expoguy]

I have been running the rear shock relocation and 40mm of spacers on top of the coil spring.

I will say this… the ride is overall improved. I have no front sway bar with 24mm of spacer on top of the coil over as well.

My heights have remained the same (in alignment with a sensor lift), I still drop at 65mph and still have full functionality of all height settings and all comfort levels.

I very much enjoy the boaty feel in Comfort and use comfort everywhere except on the highway. At speeds over 65 I am in sport mode and still rip down I70 at 80-90 with 35in MT with ease.

I run timberin bumps all around and the rear have been spaced down .5 inches.

I rub the rear slightly when I’m fully stuffed and flexed out. But only on the rear of the fender well, not the top. Someone with a metal rear bumper should be aware of this.

Your rear axle will walk backwards as you flex it out.

Unless you body lift or add a sensor lift bracket. Nothing you do the front or rear suspension parts will increase or decrease lift! The front and rear modifications simply aid in tons more travel. Not lift height.

What spacer or spacers do you have on the rear ? I have 20mm of spacer in the front, a standard Wescott in rear and Timbren bumps all around. I wasn't sure about the need to run spacers on the Timbren bumps but 1/2" may be ok all around?

 

[nwfl4runner]

I'm waiting on longer rear brake lines before I install, but has anyone noticed a binding of the rear sway bar end links with the extra droop? I feel like that might need addressing? I'll find out for sure when the lines arrive, but just trying to plan ahead, i.e., cut and weld a sleeve on the end links

 

[teejnut]

Adding the spacer in the rear alone will only change the preload on the springs. Nothing will lift until the sensors are adjusted.

I think @1world1love runs the terrain tamer springs in the rear, and he says he has trouble getting to Low now. More weight could resolve that issue for him if he was worried about it. I think the OEM option is actually to try and find an 80 series rear spring. I think the 100 series AHC springs are too light and the 100 series non ahc would be too heavy. I know there's a post somewhere that lists out the spring rates on all the options that might work for AHC.

I have the Terrain Tamer rear springs as well. I have no issues getting into low. Have the Land Shark reef drawers filled, fridge, and RLC rear bumper (no swingouts).

 

[tbisaacs]

To echo others, it should all still work and ride well. The AHC system won't know any difference with the shock relocation kit as the shocks are not position sensitive. The AHC height sensors IIRC are on the upper trailing arms and it's not a requirement that you'll need to adjust for this. The only thing it does is physically bias travel for droop rather than compression as you'll need to limit travel by 1" or so. Perhaps good to run with some minor sensor lift from stock to keep enough compression travel, which you have already done.

Yes, you'll still need the coil spacers you already have installed for the original sensor lift. The shock bracket doesn't change pressure in the AHC shock, just changes neutral volume but the AHC system is not measuring that. For your setup that is heavy, maybe 100-series coils. But I would temper others that unless you're really heavy, to not get caught up in more spring rate. Can't just think about compression, as a higher spring rate unloads faster in droop travel if that makes sense.

Interestingly enough I haven't done a sensor lift at all in the rear and with all of that weight, AHC happily lifts rear much quicker than front.

Are these all of the working combos?

Is height sensor adjustment required? Can it be used instead, or is it always in combination with another method to increase spring rate?

 

[TeCKis300]

I'm waiting on longer rear brake lines before I install, but has anyone noticed a binding of the rear sway bar end links with the extra droop? I feel like that might need addressing? I'll find out for sure when the lines arrive, but just trying to plan ahead, i.e., cut and weld a sleeve on the end links

I think you're right. I don't have the same shock bracket which is more aggressive than my mod (1.75" vs 1"). No picture but I did space my sway bar endlink down ~.25 inch. There's enough thread at the top that I did it with a few washers. Could also space the bracket on the frame down another .25 with longer screws and washer and between the two, should be enough?

Who else is excited about the new Tacoma electronic sway bar disconnect? I'll be interested to see what mechanism they use, and if it can be retrofitted to the LX...

Missed this earlier, but I'm excited for the Taco as they really need it. I'm not particularly interested in it for the LX, as it's already got the faculties to flex well beyond the other systems that rely on a sway disconnect. Then again, more mods!

 

[AnyMal]

I'm starting to accumulate parts for a rear LT setup and have a few clarifying questions for those who have done this:

• If you are running AHC and the rear coil spacers and the shock relocation, will your LX still go into low? What happens when it drops at highway speeds?
• Are the rear coil spacers strictly necessary? Could you run stock coils? Could you run the heavier 100-series coils?

What I'm trying to get at is will I lose ability to go into low, and more importantly will it create a funky ride at highway speeds.

Thanks!

No issue going into low over here. It is a tad bit slower to "lock" in, but it doesn't ever fail to lock to L in dash outside of the normal stock reluctance circumstances.
I did lose *slight* level though recently so I have to reconfigure the AHC ECU to play balancing game again.
I have other things to sort through though and some bigger suspension quirks to fix eventually.

I have to mirror @Killacaviar, comfort is just better, and actually comfortable lol. Sport is actually usable too.
Before, sport would just be a complete joke, and something I would never use unless i had an actual ton loaded in the truck.

I also have yet to fix my bumps, so I think if anything will interfere in L it would be that. Theres no worry of overcompression (on road for me) because i have the preload in the rear using westcotts incompressible solid puck. I wouldnt hesitate to recommend stiff coils to someone up front, but what you really need in rear are taller coils. So the kit is perfect for an LX, like ive said before. And im still waiting on my commission check from Westcott.
Before I wheel though, if ever, up travel limit bump will need to be corrected. You can guinea pig that for us though .

I still haven't corrected rear sway links, they are probably stressed, and fronts either for that matter. My ride has more improvement to come...
No issue dropping at highway speed, but alignments are off. Just haven't had time lately trying to chase this bag...
Need panhard relo from @drkdss yesterday. Then I can finally get it perfect, and not swing arc like mad throughout modes.

Ive got a ton more on this topic, but since I cant bill for my time here I will sit down now.
You know what actually better not touch AHC, its a fools errand if I have to be honest! LOL.

 

[AnyMal]

Interestingly enough I haven't done a sensor lift at all in the rear and with all of that weight, AHC happily lifts rear much quicker than front.

Are these all of the working combos?

View attachment 3332704

Is height sensor adjustment required? Can it be used instead, or is it always in combination with another method to increase spring rate?

You forgot ... Profit?

Quick answer to your question though is, if you dont sensor adjust for more height, you maybe under damped, but I doubt it.
Worst case just do it after if its too soft, but again, no such thing as too soft for me.

 

[TeCKis300]

Interestingly enough I haven't done a sensor lift at all in the rear and with all of that weight, AHC happily lifts rear much quicker than front.

Are these all of the working combos?

View attachment 3332704

Is height sensor adjustment required? Can it be used instead, or is it always in combination with another method to increase spring rate?

Nice decision tree! I think it captures everything well. Only thing I'd change is the "Increase spring rate/pre-load" to "sensor lift", as the later is the driving reason.

Keeping good compression is why I would encourage a sensor lift with this mod. That's important for things like baja type driving. By adding the shock relocation bracket, it's potentially getting rid of ~1" up travel, and biasing for down travel. From my measurements here, stock setup in N height gives 4.1" of compression travel (5.9" down). Using some liberties with fuzzy math, but with bracket, that would make it something like ~3.3"/7.7" compression to droop travel. Need sensor lift to balance that. So possibly a 1" sensor lift would bring it back to 4.3"/6.7".

 

[tbisaacs]

You forgot ... Profit?

Quick answer to your question though is, if you dont sensor adjust for more height, you maybe under damped, but I doubt it.
Worst case just do it after if its too soft, but again, no such thing as too soft for me.

 

[Expoguy]

To echo others, it should all still work and ride well. The AHC system won't know any difference with the shock relocation kit as the shocks are not position sensitive. The AHC height sensors IIRC are on the upper trailing arms and it's not a requirement that you'll need to adjust for this. The only thing it does is physically bias travel for droop rather than compression as you'll need to limit travel by 1" or so. Perhaps good to run with some minor sensor lift from stock to keep enough compression travel, which you have already done.

Yes, you'll still need the coil spacers you already have installed for the original sensor lift. The shock bracket doesn't change pressure in the AHC shock, just changes neutral volume but the AHC system is not measuring that. For your setup that is heavy, maybe 100-series coils. But I would temper others that unless you're really heavy, to not get caught up in more spring rate. Can't just think about compression, as a higher spring rate unloads faster in droop travel if that makes sense.

Interestingly enough I haven't done a sensor lift at all in the rear and with all of that weight, AHC happily lifts rear much quicker than front.

Are these all of the working combos?

View attachment 3332704

Is height sensor adjustment required? Can it be used instead, or is it always in combination with another method to increase spring rate?

Imo the combination of spring and ahc must be done when you want to change ride height.

 

[TeCKis300]

Imo the combination of spring and ahc must be done when you want to change ride height.

No doubt. Just saying changing the AHC shock position with the bracket won't change that.