Long range fuel tanks

[VidereStudios]

Well, I thought I would share some numbers that I got on Friday. I was hoping for better, but it is what it is.

Large tank - approx. $700
Medium tank - $600-650
Small tank - $550-600
JDM dual filler neck - $250-300
Fuel pump - $116
Switch, wire, hoses, misc parts - $100-150

It looks like I wasn't able to beat the price as I thought, especially considering shipping isn't included. These are my direct costs as well. The small and medium tanks have a range because they have not been prototyped yet. Assuming worst case pricing, that puts the subtanks in a range of $1166 to $1266, before shipping. And these are just approximations...final prototyping will determine costs and the parts requirement for the complete hardware kit is still up the air.

I need feedback on what people think. I absorbed the prototype costs for the large subtank because I always knew I would put it in my rig no matter what. But I don't want to do the same for the small and middle tanks if there aren't going to be enough people interested at these price points to make it happen. I guess I am a little discouraged at this point...

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

One option, is maybe selling the plans for a weld yourself (get your own fabricator) kit like 4x4labs DIY bumper kit. It'd be cheaper to ship and maybe cut down on the price some.

If the smallest tank was under $1000 all in, I think there'd still be people interested. $1000 is probably people's psychological breaking point.

 

[lrowe_csp]

I'm interested in a tank that is no lower than the frame rails- be great if that was 25 gals, and coming in at or under $1k would allow me to justify the cost.

 

[Romer]

Well, I thought I would share some numbers that I got on Friday. I was hoping for better, but it is what it is.

Large tank - approx. $700
Medium tank - $600-650
Small tank - $550-600
JDM dual filler neck - $250-300
Fuel pump - $116
Switch, wire, hoses, misc parts - $100-150

It looks like I wasn't able to beat the price as I thought, especially considering shipping isn't included. These are my direct costs as well. The small and medium tanks have a range because they have not been prototyped yet. Assuming worst case pricing, that puts the subtanks in a range of $1166 to $1266, before shipping. And these are just approximations...final prototyping will determine costs and the parts requirement for the complete hardware kit is still up the air.

I need feedback on what people think. I absorbed the prototype costs for the large subtank because I always knew I would put it in my rig no matter what. But I don't want to do the same for the small and middle tanks if there aren't going to be enough people interested at these price points to make it happen. I guess I am a little discouraged at this point...

Based on my 80 series install, seems reasonable in the cost range. Wouldnt keep me from getting it.

 

[OregonLC]

Not to put damper on this great product, but are there any plans to do DOT-type certification tests? Particularly the drop and pressure test? I'm sure they're very solid, but often there are 'surprise' forces encountered in a collision. Granted the risk level is very low, but I'd rather not have 25 gallons of fuel burst onto a hot vehicle and create a problem in an otherwise survivable accident. Not like 25 gallons in 5 jerry cans is going to do any better, but they'd likely be thrown from the vehicle.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.67

 

[VidereStudios]

I was going to do the drop test, but wasn't going to pursue certification. We'll see what happens if there is enough interest to keep the project alive.

 

[2000UZJ]

What does certification typically cost? I know to get a bumper rated for towing is a lot of money. I would assume getting a fuel tank certified would be very expensive, and most likely price most of us out.

 

[OregonLC]

I was going to do the drop test, but wasn't going to pursue certification. We'll see what happens if there is enough interest to keep the project alive.

I think that (testing) would be a huge selling feature.

Also keep in mind you're looking at just a subset of your 100 series market here. New owners are constantly coming to the site and as the 80s age and the capital cost of the 100s declines there will be a higher percentage of the 100s moving into dedicated wheeling rigs, particularly the 03+ LXs (purely based upon production volume). If you view it as a 'group buy' then it might be tough to get 10, 20, or whatever users. But if you view it as sales over the years then it will be much more likely to hit the targets. And I'm sure you know, but March/April are the peak for off road upgrade equipment sales. Develop in the fall, build in the winter, sell in the spring, go to shows/events in the summer. Best of luck, this is a needed product.

 

[db2nsoaz]

Looks reasonable to me and I would still be in for the smaller tank that fits flush between the frame rails.

 

[Kigiin]

I haven't followed this thread too closely so apologize if the answer is in here somewhere.

Will this aux tank solution be able to feed the engine directly or just be able to transfer fuel to the main tank. I have the later and while it works fine, it can be a PITA to know exactly how much fuel you have in the aux tank. And running the pump dry isn't a good idea - ask me how I know.

 

[LCTom]

Pricepoint is pretty much where I expected it. DOT certification would be awesome, but I'd be surprised if it could be done quickly and cheaply. Probably a reason while the tanks imported from elsewhere emphasize that there are for off-road use only. It would sure give me the warm fuzzies to know it was certified though.

 

[Kigiin]

You won't ever find DOT cert. There just isn't enough sales volume to justify the expense to certify.

But I agree, when I have that extra 45 gallons in the aux tank I try not to think about mobile bomb potential I have back there.

 

[OregonLC]

I have the later and while it works fine, it can be a PITA to know exactly how much fuel you have in the aux tank. And running the pump dry isn't a good idea - ask me how I know.

How do you know?

The first charter I ever flew was in a 310 with aux tanks in the wings. No gauges on the aux. And the FI system only had a single return which went back to the mains. If there wasn't room in the mains, the excess just went out the vent. So the procedure was to burn the mains down, switch to the aux and run them for a calculated amount of time, then switch back to the mains. Well, when flying freight you'd just run the aux dry and then switch over. Passengers don't like that as much as boxes do. Ask me how I know.

DOT certification would be awesome, but I'd be surprised if it could be done quickly and cheaply. Probably a reason while the tanks imported from elsewhere emphasize that there are for off-road use only. It would sure give me the warm fuzzies to know it was certified though.

Personally, I don't care about the cert as much as I care that they've been drop tested and pressure tested. From what I understand, the slosh momentum of the drop creates tremendous pressures on the welded joints. If the tank can survive a drop without rupturing it's a road worthy tank. For us, there's also the scrape factor which sounds like it's already being addressed with plate thickness.

 

[LCTom]

Personally, I don't care about the cert as much as I care that they've been drop tested and pressure tested. From what I understand, the slosh momentum of the drop creates tremendous pressures on the welded joints. If the tank can survive a drop without rupturing it's a road worthy tank. For us, there's also the scrape factor which sounds like it's already being addressed with plate thickness.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I'm not an engineer, but my concerns will be covered with those two tests.

 

[2000UZJ]

Is the OEM charcoal canister linked into the aux tank? I wouldn't be so worried about a drop off a ledge, I'd be worried about pressure buildup after a day on washboard.

 

[OregonLC]

Is the OEM charcoal canister linked into the aux tank? I wouldn't be so worried about a drop off a ledge, I'd be worried about pressure buildup after a day on washboard.

It's not carbonated! I think heat is greater factor. But I agree, the charcoal canister is sized to the volume of the system. Although, you could, in theory, have a solenoid valve switch the canister between tanks. How does the OE dual-tank system from OZ work?

 

[jonharis]

DOT certification is pretty much a non issue for me and in no way expected. Aside for an ARB front bumper none of the products we typically bolt on to these trucks are certified to any safety standard. My bumpers, sliders, drawers, roof rack are bit certified. I understand the thought process behind an added desire I have something holding 25lbs of fuel be certified but the truth is that the vast majority of aftermarket tanks for all applications are not. Just sayin' it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

I think your price point is relatively to be expected too. Getting it to a grand would be great but not at the sacrifice if quality or completeness. I'd still probably be in (though not guaranteed) at your current price. That said, I'm not an early adopter and budget constraints would probably require a purchase mid to late next year.

Lookin pretty good though.

 

[Mxndrnks]

I with Jon^^^

 

[hoser]

It's not carbonated! I think heat is greater factor. But I agree, the charcoal canister is sized to the volume of the system. Although, you could, in theory, have a solenoid valve switch the canister between tanks. How does the OE dual-tank system from OZ work?

What I found interesting is the UZJ100's that did come with a subtank have a charcoal canister that appears smaller than the North American ones. If I ever need to replace mine, I might give the circular canister a shot. The unit is a lot cheaper... shipping, of course, more.

PN 77740-60400

I'm not sure about the OE set-up but with my subtank, the vapors pass freely between the two tanks via the dual filler tube. So, there is no direct hose connection between the aux tank to the charcoal canister.

 

[VidereStudios]

Not to put damper on this great product, but are there any plans to do DOT-type certification tests? Particularly the drop and pressure test? I'm sure they're very solid, but often there are 'surprise' forces encountered in a collision. Granted the risk level is very low, but I'd rather not have 25 gallons of fuel burst onto a hot vehicle and create a problem in an otherwise survivable accident.

What does certification typically cost? I know to get a bumper rated for towing is a lot of money. I would assume getting a fuel tank certified would be very expensive, and most likely price most of us out.

Pricepoint is pretty much where I expected it. DOT certification would be awesome, but I'd be surprised if it could be done quickly and cheaply. Probably a reason while the tanks imported from elsewhere emphasize that there are for off-road use only. It would sure give me the warm fuzzies to know it was certified though.

You won't ever find DOT cert. There just isn't enough sales volume to justify the expense to certify. But I agree, when I have that extra 45 gallons in the aux tank I try not to think about mobile bomb potential I have back there.

DOT certification is pretty much a non issue for me and in no way expected. Aside for an ARB front bumper none of the products we typically bolt on to these trucks are certified to any safety standard. My bumpers, sliders, drawers, roof rack are bit certified. I understand the thought process behind an added desire I have something holding 25lbs of fuel be certified but the truth is that the vast majority of aftermarket tanks for all applications are not. Just sayin' it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Well, from what research I could do, it looks like DOT certification would not be realistic on a product such as this. It would take a bigger company to be able to facilitate the costs and number of subtanks needed for the testing. Definitely outside my financial comfort zone to say the least.

However, if I do decide to bring these to market, I definitely plan on doing the drop test for the subtanks. It looks like it would be pretty easy to do. However, the fire pressure test looks pretty difficult and way to risky without the right facility and fire suppression capability.