Land Cruiser vs. LX570 (2 Viewers)

[JS9]

Hello,

Seeking guidance from the hive.

I am in the market for a new car and absolutely fell in love with the Land Cruiser. I have been looking at model years 2016-2022. Browsing vehicles, it appears as though the LX570 is actually selling for quite a bit less than comparable Land Cruisers. I was curious as to why the LX570 retails for less on the pre-owned market since it has a higher initial MSRP and is from a more "prestigious" marque.

While I prefer the aesthetics and infotainment system in the Land Cruiser, I question if it makes sense to pay more for it. Are there reliability concerns?

It will be used primarily on pavement and to tow a boat on weekends. I don't really intend to offroad it, other than occasionally driving on the beach.

Thank you.

 

[Brown98LC]

This should be in the 200 section.

200-Series Cruisers

2008-2021 : Lexus LX570 and 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (J200)

forum.ih8mud.com

I see you also mentioned 2022 model year.
2022 model year is 300/310 series.
Lc300/lx600
Are you also asking about those?

 

[JS9]

This should be in the 200 section.

200-Series Cruisers

2008-2021 : Lexus LX570 and 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (J200)

forum.ih8mud.com

I see you also mentioned 2022 model year.
2022 model year is 300/310 series.
Lc300/lx600
Are you also asking about those?

My apologies, I posted it in the wrong section. I am more interested in the 200 series- would prefer the V8 for towing.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

I think it mainly comes down to:

1. Land Cruiser has a better image as an off roader and most people who buy second hand 4x4 are looking to use it off road more than the primary buyer. Additionally the LC body is better designed for off road use.

2. Most Land Cruisers do not have AHC which can be a weak link for LX570s.

3. I think more LX570s were sold the last few years so there are more on the market, but I could be wrong.

 

[MrX]

It's just one of those things where it seems too good to be true.

LXs do sell for less, yet are massively nicer inside and out.

If you can sacrifice marginal off road capability (I mean, not much at all) and don't have to have the Land Cruiser name, get an LX. The leather and wood and interior are superior. Styling is subjective, I like them both but LX better. AHC should last the life of the vehicle if you service it regularly, it's a hydraulic system and very tough. It's also what makes the LX seem to "glide" down the interstate and provide the really comfy ride.

We all have our opinions but it's a no-brainer. Flagship Lexus truck that's a Land Cruiser that's actually better (IMO) for cheaper. Jump on an LX that has a good price.

 

[Brown98LC]

You should try and drive both, regardless of looks. The LX is that extra bit nicer, it is noticeable when you drive.

 

[Madtiger]

It's just one of those things where it seems too good to be true.

LXs do sell for less, yet are massively nicer inside and out.

If you can sacrifice marginal off road capability (I mean, not much at all) and don't have to have the Land Cruiser name, get an LX. The leather and wood and interior are superior. Styling is subjective, I like them both but LX better. AHC should last the life of the vehicle if you service it regularly, it's a hydraulic system and very tough. It's also what makes the LX seem to "glide" down the interstate and provide the really comfy ride.

We all have our opinions but it's a no-brainer. Flagship Lexus truck that's a Land Cruiser that's actually better (IMO) for cheaper. Jump on an LX that has a good price.

AHC is literally the main reason I stopped considering LX600...it is a POS system to maintain, diagnose when issues arise, and no Lexus dealer wants to touch it with 10 foot pole.

(Yes, you can get LX600 without AHC, but then you have a clearance of a Corvette C8 ZO6 without aftermarket mods.)

 

[aedgington]

AHC is literally the main reason I stopped considering LX600...it is a POS system to maintain, diagnose when issues arise, and no Lexus dealer wants to touch it with 10 foot pole.

I've driven AHC-equipped vehicles since 2004 and disagree entirely. Especially the last part. Dealers love them dolla billz.

LXs being cheaper started way back in the day of the first 100s. Lexus customers typically had better credit and put down larger downpayments so that when they turned in their leases or traded in their vehicles, they owed less, could be bought out for less, and then be sold for less -- either retail or wholesale.

The "EXPO AF" crowd likes the idea that the LC is more capable -- and maybe it is in .00001 use cases -- but I've yet to see or hear of anyone ever say "My LX couldn't do it. But I could have if I'd had an LC" in real world (not purpose-built for extreme) usage.

 

[Madtiger]

View attachment 3406203


I've driven AHC-equipped vehicles since 2004 and disagree entirely. Especially the last part. Dealers love them dolla billz.

LXs being cheaper started way back in the day of the first 100s. Lexus customers typically had better credit and put down larger downpayments so that when they turned in their leases or traded in their vehicles, they owed less, could be bought out for less, and then be sold for less -- either retail or wholesale.

The "EXPO AF" crowd likes the idea that the LC is more capable -- and maybe it is in .00001 use cases -- but I've yet to see or hear of anyone ever say "My LX couldn't do it. But I could have if I'd had an LC" in real world (not purpose-built for extreme) usage.

Yet you are wrong. There are HORROR stories on 200 series forums where members cannot find a dealer willing to touch AHC. And when it goes bad, members have gotten quotes of $30-35k to replace the whole system.

AHC parts go bad around 100k - 150k miles. And I am not even talking about AHC lines leaking due to rust being very common. Diagnosing issue is a PIA.

Add in LX AHC having poorer on-road handling than LC. Worst articulation off-road esp when in HI mode. Worst ride off-road in HI mode.

AHC LX has less tow capacity than LC. Why? Could it be that AHC cannot tow as heavy due to durability issues? (YES, it does tow BETTER because of AHC self-leveling, but tow capacity is over 1000 lbs less than LC.)

Yeah no thanks. Toyota/Lexus is literally abandoning AHC. AHC is present only in USA Lexus I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[aedgington]

Yet you are wrong. There are HORROR stories on 200 series forums where members cannot find a dealer willing to touch AHC. And when it goes bad, members have gotten quotes of $30-35k to replace the whole system.

This is absolutely flawed reasoning. 50,000 vehicles sold and MAYBE 100 people on an enthusiast forum that tend to buy the vehicles used and/or push them to their limits is not an equivalency to "all are bad". That's just silly. One bad strawberry in every 2lb carton of strawberries doesn't mean all strawberries are bad. That's just a confirmation bias fallacy.

There are probably more HORROR stories about heater Ts or radiators or EFI fuses (individually) on this forum than AHC. Oh noes. They're all bad. Stop. Just stop buying anything. Don't buy anything with a radiator or heater T.

Diagnosing issue is a PIA.

It really isn't. Supporting information: I work at a Toyota dealership. The shop has LCs and LXs in and out of it all the time. In the years I've worked there, there isn't a bias in service about diagnosing the issues. Most of the diagnostic 'issues' (on any vehicle) are customers not wanting to pay the diagnostic fee.

Add in LX AHC having poorer on-road handling than LC. Worst articulation off-road esp when in HI mode. Worst ride off-road in HI mode.

I'm just going to call BS on the first one, having driven both. Unless you mean 'handling' as in taking it to a track to dyno or drift? Then I can't comment and it'll go hand in hand with my second statement that, again, .1% scenarios that aren't relevant to 99.99% of most people -- including the OP by their description of usage and to which answers should apply -- are usually just bragging rights or meet-up shop talk.

I'll go out on a limb and say anyone exceeding the articulation of a stock LX isn't going to be satisfied with the miniscule incremental difference of a stock LC. Making sweeping generalizations based on what two dozen extreme off-roaders on an enthusiast forum have found to be limits is just silly. It's like arguing about the speed of RAM and thinking it actually makes a difference.

AHC LX has less tow capacity than LC. Why? Could it be that AHC cannot tow as heavy due to durability issues? (YES, it does tow BETTER because of AHC self-leveling, but tow capacity is over 1000 lbs less than LC.)

Or. It could be because the LX is heavier. Pretty simple answer. Getting pretty carried away inventing arguments here.

Yeah no thanks. Toyota/Lexus is literally abandoning AHC. AHC is present only in USA Lexus I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

I'd make a list of "only available on single model" features to refute that, but it would be exhausting. Again, this isn't a factual equivalency.

It's weird that you're working so hard to sell yourself and others on the AHC hate.

 

[MrX]

This is ridiculous, AHC is extremely reliable and robust. Change the fluid regularly and it should last the life of the vehicle. Because there are "horror stories" on here doesn't mean it's unreliable. It makes the ride plush and the truck "glides" at high speeds. It evens out the rear when towing. You can raise and lower it. It's the most robust active suspension on the market, at least the 200s was. The 300 doesn't even have AHC protection.

 

[Madtiger]

This is absolutely flawed reasoning. 50,000 vehicles sold and MAYBE 100 people on an enthusiast forum that tend to buy the vehicles used and/or push them to their limits is not an equivalency to "all are bad". That's just silly. One bad strawberry in every 2lb carton of strawberries doesn't mean all strawberries are bad. That's just a confirmation bias fallacy.

There are probably more HORROR stories about heater Ts or radiators or EFI fuses (individually) on this forum than AHC. Oh noes. They're all bad. Stop. Just stop buying anything. Don't buy anything with a radiator or heater T.


It really isn't. Supporting information: I work at a Toyota dealership. The shop has LCs and LXs in and out of it all the time. In the years I've worked there, there isn't a bias in service about diagnosing the issues. Most of the diagnostic 'issues' (on any vehicle) are customers not wanting to pay the diagnostic fee.



I'm just going to call BS on the first one, having driven both. Unless you mean 'handling' as in taking it to a track to dyno or drift? Then I can't comment and it'll go hand in hand with my second statement that, again, .1% scenarios that aren't relevant to 99.99% of most people -- including the OP by their description of usage and to which answers should apply -- are usually just bragging rights or meet-up shop talk.

I'll go out on a limb and say anyone exceeding the articulation of a stock LX isn't going to be satisfied with the miniscule incremental difference of a stock LC. Making sweeping generalizations based on what two dozen extreme off-roaders on an enthusiast forum have found to be limits is just silly. It's like arguing about the speed of RAM and thinking it actually makes a difference.


Or. It could be because the LX is heavier. Pretty simple answer. Getting pretty carried away inventing arguments here.


I'd make a list of "only available on single model" features to refute that, but it would be exhausting. Again, this isn't a factual equivalency.

It's weird that you're working so hard to sell yourself and others on the AHC hate.

I wish that you did more research. I really do. Go to 200 forum.

For tow rating...for someone who works for Toyota dealership, you are wrong...you have no idea what you're spewing! It is not about weight of LX!!! LX is about 200-250 lbs heavier than LC200 Tow capacity of LX is 1100 lbs less. So, no...you're wrong.

Here is something that may help you learn more about it: 200 Series Landcruiser vs LX 570 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/200-series-landcruiser-vs-lx-570.1319413/page-2

I call BS on Toyota dealership working on AHC. Heck, a member recently can't even get his Lexus service center to touch it! But hey, sure, we can go with it. Go to 200 series forum and look up AHC issues. PLENTY of issues. PLENTY of issues of parts failing, leaks, ride like crap, etc..


Diagnosing is an issue...this is about AHC. When AHC goes bad, it is a PIA in find the issue and fix. Trial and error. Replace this part. Replace that part. Buy Ebay. Buy Toyota dealership. over and over again.

Actually, the difference b/w AHC and KDSS can be significant. You see at NORMAL height for stock LX, your approach / departure angles suck. ONLY at HI mode, does the LX angles match a stock LC. And at HI mode (which is speed limited), your articulation goes down and ride turns to crap.

For on-road handling, Lexus LX ranks the bottom in MotorTrend's Figure 8 time. Let me guess...you say that Figure 8 is for race cars, right? Nope, Figure 8 tests emergency handling and transitions. So, yeah, it can make a difference in emergency handling...such as avoiding an obstacle on the road.

AHC is being phased out. It is more for on-road thing (which it is not good at) and to let children and grandma in/out. Aka an “American thing.” Not for off-road.

Toyota does not even care about AHC much nowadays...see lack of protection on LX600 AHC components. It is literally an after-thought in LX600. Basically, a throw on to satisfy the rich Benjamins who need their grandmas to get into the LX.

AHC is good at 3 things: brake dive, towing (avoiding squat), and letting children and old folks in/out.

And there is no suspension system out there that is as complex to diagnose and as expensive to fix as AHC. You talk about cost...how about those "innocent" Lexus owners who are putting up at least $5-10k in repairs at Lexus dealers every 150-200k miles??? And at least two members here got quoted $30,000+ to fix their AHC at Lexus dealer??!!

 

[aedgington]

Well, I can say from personal experience my Toyota store worked on my LX AHC, granted a 100, but it's still AHC. I can dig up a copy of the RO so, yeah, you're completely wrong. Factually wrong.

You keep saying things like 'lots'. Make a list of threads. Count them. Then count how many are 7+ years, 150k+ miles. How many are left? A dozen?

Anyway, I'm done. No need to get into lower bumpers or wheel sizes (stock). Clearly you have no interest in an objective discussion and these 1000 word rants making the same generalizations are exhausting. OP can make his own decision.

 

[Brown98LC]

a lot of people delete AHC in the Middle East, I have seen it done even on LX 600s.
They do it because they want to run after market suspension ( king shocks etc ) and or when they get old a lot of people ditch the AHC (not because they are failing but just to avoid any potential hassle I guess or have the option to run after market suspension)

I do remember though win the days of the LX 470, a lot more people used to delete AHC compared to with the LX 570. Usually when someone deletes the AHC on the LX 570/600 it is because they want to run after market suspension.

My current LX 570 has AHC and I own land cruisers without AHC.
Non AHC firmer and seems more stable off road. LX rides a bit softer and nicer on low speeds.
I do not view both as deal breakers.

I actually notice a change when I put it on sport on my 570 seems to firm up the ride but maybe most won't notice it.

Obviously if you care about articulation a lot you can't beat a vehicle with KDSS.

I have also seen people delete KDSS in the Middle East as well...so there's that too...

 

[mrlittlejeans]

I wish that you did more research. I really do. Go to 200 forum.

For tow rating...for someone who works for Toyota dealership, you are wrong...you have no idea what you're spewing! It is not about weight of LX!!! LX is about 200-250 lbs heavier than LC200 Tow capacity of LX is 1100 lbs less. So, no...you're wrong.

Here is something that may help you learn more about it: 200 Series Landcruiser vs LX 570 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/200-series-landcruiser-vs-lx-570.1319413/page-2

I call BS on Toyota dealership working on AHC. Heck, a member recently can't even get his Lexus service center to touch it! But hey, sure, we can go with it. Go to 200 series forum and look up AHC issues. PLENTY of issues. PLENTY of issues of parts failing, leaks, ride like crap, etc..


Diagnosing is an issue...this is about AHC. When AHC goes bad, it is a PIA in find the issue and fix. Trial and error. Replace this part. Replace that part. Buy Ebay. Buy Toyota dealership. over and over again.

Actually, the difference b/w AHC and KDSS can be significant. You see at NORMAL height for stock LX, your approach / departure angles suck. ONLY at HI mode, does the LX angles match a stock LC. And at HI mode (which is speed limited), your articulation goes down and ride turns to crap.

For on-road handling, Lexus LX ranks the bottom in MotorTrend's Figure 8 time. Let me guess...you say that Figure 8 is for race cars, right? Nope, Figure 8 tests emergency handling and transitions. So, yeah, it can make a difference in emergency handling...such as avoiding an obstacle on the road.

AHC is being phased out. It is more for on-road thing (which it is not good at) and to let children and grandma in/out. Aka an “American thing.” Not for off-road.

Toyota does not even care about AHC much nowadays...see lack of protection on LX600 AHC components. It is literally an after-thought in LX600. Basically, a throw on to satisfy the rich Benjamins who need their grandmas to get into the LX.

AHC is good at 3 things: brake dive, towing (avoiding squat), and letting children and old folks in/out.

And there is no suspension system out there that is as complex to diagnose and as expensive to fix as AHC. You talk about cost...how about those "innocent" Lexus owners who are putting up at least $5-10k in repairs at Lexus dealers every 150-200k miles??? And at least two members here got quoted $30,000+ to fix their AHC at Lexus dealer??!!

LOL. Go post this troll on the 200 forum. They'll teach you right. I've seent it done before

 

[MrX]

I call BS on Toyota dealership working on AHC. Heck, a member recently can't even get his Lexus service center to touch it! But hey, sure, we can go with it. Go to 200 series forum and look up AHC issues. PLENTY of issues. PLENTY of issues of parts failing, leaks, ride like crap, etc..

Welp, Toyota dealer did mine 4 years ago at 80k before I even owned it. Zero issues, AHC is one of my favorite things.

If you don't like it, fine. But many owners do.

So how many people have received $35,000 quotes on a fix? LOL. Really?

 

[Madtiger]

Welp, Toyota dealer did mine 4 years ago at 80k before I even owned it. Zero issues, AHC is one of my favorite things.

If you don't like it, fine. But many owners do.

So how many people have received $35,000 quotes on a fix? LOL. Really?

TWO members. Imagine how many got that ridiculous quote that are not on the forum? Maybe that is why you see so many LX on used car lots (vs LC)? Maybe these Lexus owners...say "screw that $7000-35000 cost" and just trade it in?

Several got 5000-7000 quotes from local Lexus dealers.

Several got notice that Lexus refuse to maintain AHC.

You may say that these are just "enthusiasts"...but if there are several members here....what you think happens to the rest of the customers that are not on this forum?

AHC is 'reliable' until it isn't. Then it is a nightmare.

 

[MrX]

TWO members. Imagine how many got that ridiculous quote that are not on the forum? Maybe that is why you see so many LX on used car lots (vs LC)? Maybe these Lexus owners...say "screw that $7000-35000 cost" and just trade it in?

Several got 5000-7000 quotes from local Lexus dealers.

Several got notice that Lexus refuse to maintain AHC.

You may say that these are just "enthusiasts"...but if there are several members here....what you think happens to the rest of the customers that are not on this forum?

AHC is 'reliable' until it isn't. Then it is a nightmare.

My Lexus dealer told me they've only seen a handful of minor problems on 570s re: AHC, I specifically asked.

Whether you want to admit it or just hate it so passionately or not, it's an amazing feat of engineering. Lol if you hate it so much, don't get an LX570. I like Land Cruisers but not fake wood and the styling and Toyota name (and dealer service) for that price, so I bought an LX.

 

[aedgington]

The seats. Omg the seats in the LX are 1000x better. Extendable thigh support.

 

[Madtiger]

My Lexus dealer told me they've only seen a handful of minor problems on 570s re: AHC, I specifically asked.

Whether you want to admit it or just hate it so passionately or not, it's an amazing feat of engineering. Lol if you hate it so much, don't get an LX570. I like Land Cruisers but not fake wood and the styling and Toyota name (and dealer service) for that price, so I bought an LX.

Totally agree...my LC interior is very lackluster. I love LX interior (minus mouse thingy) and the ML audio is to die for! I hate the fake wood in my LC!! Oh well.