Insurance wants to total truck - front end damage. Need advice (1 Viewer)

[Jczajka]

My truck was in an accident last with with front end damage and my insurance company want to total it and value it at $6700. Looking for advice on how to proceed and if my thinking is correct. Feel free to dive into my ADHD story or ignore it!

I have dug around the site for a week and found lots of good advice about insurance, getting your own comps, paying to have an independent Total Loss appraisal done, etc. I know its hard to judge from pictures, but I think the damage to my truck is fixable by myself and probably a little help from a body shop. I also think the insurance company is using dubious tactics to undervalue my truck, but that to be expected.

Last week I ran into a contractor van, when I line of cars stopped suddenly for a car turning left against traffic in a busy street. The giant tow ball on the contractor van went into the front of my truck and damaged the bumper, supports, headlights, and I assume my transmission cooler. ATF leaked out slowly after the accident and steadily ran down the street, while the car was off. No airbags went off, no other damage, not even a cut or scrape.


Foremost (Farmers) Insurance wants to total my 2000 LX with 230,000 miles on it, due to the damage assessment (just from pictures), and their valuation from CCC of $6762. The valuation is based on comps they could find near me. They were only able to find TWO comps within 100 miles of my house in the Philadelphia area.

I think the valuation should be much higher. I have seen trucks in my condition sell for around $10k-14K on average. That's what it would cost me to replace my truck with something very similar. I found a couple within 250 miles on dealer lots selling for $10-$14k. There are trucks on Bring a Trailer & Cars and Bids that have also sold for that much, proving that is the going rate for truck in similar condition to mine. My fear is the truck is worth $6700 and I cannot get anymore for it.

Comps from CCC from via insurance company.

• First truck, 311,605 miles. Dealer price $6750 ($6395 valuation from CCC)
• Lived in Central Pennsylvania all its life; Lots of road salt & brine in the winter. looks pretty good, first 200k miles serviced by Lexus. Last 50k miles of service done by independent shop or Pep Boys
  • Really dark brake fluid.
  • Timing belt last done 12 years ago/128k miles. Water pump was leaking prior to replacement according to customer.
  • A little more surface rust underneath, but only a couple of pics of the undercarriage right under the running boards.
  • Symptoms of a failing starter since 2016 & has been in the shop several times for a new battery. "Starter shoring out, customer doesn't want to replace, because they are selling soon." - Lexus service 2017. Starter previously replaced in 2013 and 2008. In for service for non-start or battery issues 5-6 times. Multiple battery issues
  • Issues with brake lights on dash. Failing brake master cylinder since 2016, the customer declined replacing shop topped off and told customer to continue topping off brake fluid. All according to Lexus history.
  • Has issues with the brake rotors and pads needing to be constantly replaced due to lug nuts being severely overtightened, so likely warped hubs. Multiple instances of pads being worn to metal backing plate. Lots of service notes about pads and rotors being replaced, resurfaced, almost yearly.
  • Malfunctioning master cycling pressure senor and brake switch. Brake switch replaced. 2015.
    • CUSTOMER STATES SINCE REAR BRAKE SERVICE WAS PERFORMED THE BRAKES FEEL LIKE THEY ARE DRAGGING OR RUBBING. SKID CONTROL CAME ON AND THE VEHICLE DID A REALLY HARD BRAKE AND AFTER THAT SHE SMELLED A BURNING SMELL. CHECK AND ADVISE. ~|~TECH PERFORMED DIAGNOSIS AND FOUND CODE C2146 STORED INDICATING MALFUNCTION WITH MASTER CYLINER PRESSURE SENSOR. TECH TESTED PRESSURE SENSOR AND FOUND TO BE OK. TECH CHECKED DATA LIST AND IT APPEARS BRAKE SWITCH WAS ON AND MASTER CYLINDER WAS UP. TECH TES ~|~TECH REPLACED BRAKE SWITCH TO CORRECT. REPAIR TO BE COVERED UNDER LEXUS SERVICE POLICY, VEHICLE IS OUT BY MILEAGE FOR CSP-ELL
  • Truck drove off the rails at a car wash and started pulling hard after that. Lexus said its fine, "customer declined all work."
  • 8/11/2013 - 210,852 miles DESCRIPTION: ~|~CLIENT STATES THERE WAS A 60LB BAG OF ICE MEALTED IN THE REA R SEAT FLOOR AREA, NEEDS TO BE DRIED CHECK & ADV ~|~ ~|~RECON TECH EXTRACTED WATER FROM CARPET AND ALLOWED VEHICLE TO SIT OVER THE WEEKEND WITH ALL WINDOWS OPEN TO DRY
  • Headlight and taillight bulbs seem to be replaced almost yearly. Many service notes about bulbs throughout Lexus history. Left front corner marker cracked and letting water in the headlight 2007
  • Something spilled on the shifter maybe? drink tipped over in cup holder?
  • 2/28/2005 - DESCRIPTION: ~|~DURING STATE INSPECTION TECH FOUND A LEAK IN THE LEFT EXHAUST MANIFOLD. ~|~TECH REPLACED LEFT EXHAUST MANIFOLD AND GASKETS TO CORRECT AND FOR STATE INSPECTION PURPOSES. THE OXYGEN SENSOR WAS ABLE TO BE REMOVED FROM MANIFOLD AND WAS NOT NEEDED.
  • Customer declined 150,000 mile service & hasn't had factory service since then.

• Second truck, 196,000 miles. Dealer Price $8000 ($6033 valuation from CCC)
  • Lived at the top of the Jersey Shore most of its life, before moving to Central PA in 2015. Lots of sale exposure from ocean and salt on roads.
  • No service history after 136k miles.
  • Full seller description "Nice SUV, runs and drives great. Has some scratches around."
  • in 2017 Minor/Moderate damage reported on the Carfax, but no details: Damage to front, Damage to left front, Damage to left rear, Damage to right front, Damage to right rear. No mention from Lexus service. No disclosure on the dealer site selling.
  • 4/27/2010 (107961 miles) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER REQUESTS TO HAVE THE REAR BRAKES REPLACED PLEASE PROVIDE PRICE BEFORE INSTALL ~|~REAR BRAKES AT 1-2MM REAR ROTORS HEAVY RUST AND CORROSION ~|~CLIEND DECLINED REAR BRAKES AND ROTOR REPLACEMENT AT THIS TIME
  • 6/18/2013 (135992 miles) DESCRIPTION: ~|~CUSTOMER STATES HARD START, KEEPS TRYING UNTIL VEHICLE STARTS, IT IS INTERMITTENT PROBLEM. YESTERDAY TOOK NUMEROUS TIMES BEFORE STARTING. HAS NEW BATTERY CHECK AND ADVISE ~|~FOUND STARTER SHORTING OUT INTERMITTENTLY ~|~EST 938.00 & TAX FOR STARTER AND GASKETS. WOULD HAVE TO ORDER PARTS, CUSTOMER DECLINED AT THIS TIME, THINKING OF TRADING VEHICLE IN.
  • Brakes worn through to the caliper multiple times. Needs all new brakes, customer declines
  • No pictures of engine bay at all.
  • No mention of timing belt or any other major service in the Carfax or on Lexus site.
  • No pictures of the under carriage at all.

I spent nearly $16k on my truck in the last 4 years to get it running great. Some of that was consumables (fluids, filters, batteries, wipers, etc.), some was cosmetic, and my work paid for around $2k of that.

My truck came from the South before I got in in 2019, so very minor surface rust on the frame and components underneath. I keep it clean, wash it in the winter, and grease all components that should be greased. I have replaced all major components in the truck since I purchased it and ton of minor cosmetic things. Worn drivers seat and arm rest are only interior blemishes.

Major work (almost all OE Toyota Parts):

• Timing belt/WP (all bearings, seals, belts, tensioners etc.) new radiator, coolant lines, heater T's, fan pulley, fan clutch, spark plugs/coils.
• All vacuum lines under the hood, OE almost 100%
• Replaced a few sensors and valves in engine.
• Replaced O2 sensors.
• New CV, wheel bearings, all suspension bushings front and rear in everycomponent. All suspension parts cleaned & painted or greased to clean/reduce rust.
  • New AHC globes, King HD springs.
• Replaced original alternator/ starter, upgraded larger AGM battery. Upgraded to larger ground wires.
• Replace cracked exhaust manifold with Doug Thorley headers and Toyota gaskets/studs/nuts
• New power steering reservoir, hoses, and fluid drain fill in November & regular fluid changes.
• JUST REPLACED the master cylinder, rebuilt all 4 calipers, & new rotors, pads, and all hardware front and rear, in October.
• Drained and filled all fluid when I purchased the truck. Regular fluid changes and filter changes. Spark plug changes, senor cleaning, throttle body cleaning, cleaning greasing battery terminals, grease axles/spiders with oil changes.
• Oil every 5-7k miles over the last 4 years.

Lots of other little minor things like: replacing telescopic motor and steering column bushings, replacing all missing interior trim pieces, reupholstered torn speaker covers, fixed/replaced broken window switches, replaced bubbling indicator trim around shifter, etc. I am almost @2001LC obsessive in fixing things that need fixing


Foremost says the body shop bill is $7000, but stopped counting once that exceeded the valuation of the truck. The adjuster said full cost is likely $9000-$10,000 from a body shop.

I am sure that cost is full retail and I wont be doing that. I would buy new parts where necessary, used parts if I can make them work, and do most of the work myself. I have a buddy that owns a paint shop (drives an 80 Series) and I can likely get a lot of help from him on the painting, bodywork, and sourcing parts.
I may be underestimating though. I think the main damage is the transmission cooler. The truck slowly bled out and was running at a stop for maybe 15 seconds. No weird noises or anything. Left fender bent, not sure about sub assembly. Hood bent, Supports in front of radiator bent. The front bumper supports welded to the end of the frame are bent/cracked, bumper smashed up and cracked, upper and lower bumper supports are cracked. All the trim around the headlights is damaged, and the back black plastic of both headlights are cracked. From my inspection it doesn't look like the frame is bent.

The truck is on a Copart lot about 45 minutes from my house, so I want to go look at it closer.


I would like the valuation of my truck to be higher, so I can either take the payout and walk away, or get it back with a salvage title and fix it. I could get the truck back with a slightly smaller payout and rebuild it and get a salvage/reconstructed titled and have it back on the road in a month or two.


What does everyone think of the damage? Are there other hidden things I should look at?

What does everyone think of the valuation? Should it be higher, or is $7000 reasonable?

All the images in the album here: LX470 damage - https://photos.app.goo.gl/B74sQ5G2UJAN6xEH6

 

[Grabo]

I’m actually in the same boat although they are not totaling mine. I Needed a front bumper. Front filler panel. Trans cooler and some new headlights. My hood wasn’t bent though.
I would take your grill off and your front bumper off just to see what you’re working with. Also check and see if your radiator still has fluid in it.
I just bought the parts and im doing the work myself so i can save on labor and get a steel front bumper out of the deal.

 

[kevgentile]

Too much for me to read thru so I kinda skimmed over it.

The first thing that grabbed my attention was your concern over the comparable valuation. Sorry to say but that's a battle you will lose. I went thru this on an Audi S4 avant I had hit by someone. There were only 5 for sale in the entire country but non of them were actual comps, at least not to me nor the Audi community, considering it was one of only 73 ever built in this configuration. I fought USAA for several months over this and in the end to keep the car from getting totaled I had to have the work estimate amended to reduce the cost, which in turn would sacrifice the overall quality of work. Sometimes with enough pressure they will take upgrades into consideration. I had the adjuster come out and I went over the car with him to point out all the upgrades, but you would need receipts to back it up.

The damage doesn't look too bad but with labor cost these days and parts prices getting astronomical on limited production parts you'll find that even the most minor of damage will result in a big ticket.

There's nothing extra special worth going thru too much of a hassle trying to save it from getting branded, but that's personal preference. You could let it go thru the process and buy it back, do the repairs that it needs, and use some of the money to get some upgrades. Get some parts yourself from a part out on the forum and have them shipped to the body shop. If you try and save it from being branded then the insurance company will call the shots and dictate the parts used and the cost.

 

[Jczajka]

The only issue I have is that the truck went to a local auto body place and then insurance towed it to a yard. I don't have the truck on my property. Didn't think ahead to have them tow it to my house right after the accident.

I would do the work myself as much as possible. I have a friend with a paint shop that could help with welding/painting/stuff I dont have tools for.

 

[kevgentile]

The only issue I have is that the truck went to a local auto body place and then insurance towed it to a yard. I don't have the truck on my property. Didn't think ahead to have them tow it to my house right after the accident.

I would do the work myself as much as possible. I have a friend with a paint shop that could help with welding/painting/stuff I dont have tools for.

That's what I would do and would save a few bucks in the process. You still own the truck so just have it towed to your place or just wait for the them to total it out, buy it back, and then tow it out. Could probably buy it back for a $1000 or so but I'd definitely ask them before hand.

 

[Jczajka]

That's what I would do and would save a few bucks in the process. You still own the truck so just have it towed to your place or just wait for the them to total it out, buy it back, and then tow it out. Could probably buy it back for a $1000 or so but I'd definitely ask them before hand.

Thats what I was thinking too. Get it back to my place and inspect it better. Not sure the insurance company will release it though.

They are offering $6700 to total it and cash me out. Other option is keep it and they give it back once I surrender the title and pay me $4525 (same amount less salvage value). I would have to fix before the state would send me back a salvage title.

 

[Bisho]

Thats what I was thinking too. Get it back to my place and inspect it better. Not sure the insurance company will release it though.

They are offering $6700 to total it and cash me out. Other option is keep it and they give it back once I surrender the title and pay me $4525 (same amount less salvage value). I would have to fix before the state would send me back a salvage title.

Well, the truck is definitely worth quite a bit more than $2200 as is, so I would definitely buy it back. I think it’s certainly worth the effort to get a higher valuation, though. I agree it is likely closer to $10-11k.

 

[2000UZJ]

I'd advise you to reach out to Billy, at Collision Consultants and tell him Nick from "CIC" sent you. I work with CCC on a daily basis, and let me tell you...they have more data than you and will win. This fight is between you and the insurance carrier at this point. The carrier would prefer a 20 year old V8 truck with no ADAS is taken off the street. More ADAS = lower hits = lower Severity.

This is not a $7,000 hit. This is where salvage yards, and www.car-part.com come into play for you. Find used fenders, hood, and don't worry about a bumper. Upgrade to an ARB/Dissent/Whatever else and send it.

If you are OK with aftermarket body parts, get those and get the truck on the road. Find a shop that wants to work with you, however it might be really tough now days as labor shortages in the collision industry are insane, and shops are already months behind on production.

 

[joshAUST]

I had my UZJ100 hit by a Patrol that crossed over the line.
The chassis was warped, so they wrote it off.
I didn't argue, as we had an agreed value, which I was happy to take.
Thought of buying it as a paddock bomb, but I don't have a paddock...
The drivers door was touching the rear door, hence the warped chassis decision to write it off.
If the chassis is straight, it might be worth fixing...

 

[Malleus]

I just went through this with my son's 2000 LX470, although his damage wasn't as severe as yours (no hood or fender damage).

Lexus parts are mostly still available new, but if, and that's a huge if, you can find them in a yard, do so. I couldn't and had to search for months for a bumper (I wasn't willing to replace it with 100s of pounds of ARB). As long as there's no frame damage, you can do this in your driveway.

You're biggest expense will be the little trim parts (like the ones under the grill) and the literal multitude of fasteners that Toyota incorporated into the design (no kidding). The hood will likely also have created damage at the hinges, so check that before you start. If there's a lot of movement there, you're in for a lot or work. Not impossible, but very time consuming.

Based on my personal experience, I'd be surprised if a shop could fix this for under the insurance estimate. You could easily, but only if you're not using new parts. FWIW, my new Toyota body parts were crap. They were scratched and had to be repainted before I could use them. I was not pleased. The shop manager who took care of the job for me, and whom I trust, told me that the new Toyota parts he'd seen in the last few years all looked the same.

 

[Jeremy9A]

Foremost (State Farm) Insurance wants to total my 2000 LX with 230,000 miles on it, due to the damage assessment (just from pictures), and their valuation from CCC of $6762.

This isn't advice but just something to point out. Foremost is part of Farmers insurance, not State Farm. I do not often hear great things about peoples experience with Farmers.

State Farm on the other hand would likely pay a fair replacement cost on the vehicle. State farm is a mutual with each member being part owner in a way.

 

[Jczajka]

This isn't advice but just something to point out. Foremost is part of Farmers insurance, not State Farm. I do not often hear great things about peoples experience with Farmers.

State Farm on the other hand would likely pay a fair replacement cost on the vehicle. State farm is a mutual with each member being part owner in a way.

Ahh, yes. I got confused when typing. I'll update my original post.

 

[mmbirtcher]

I like the idea of total then buyback to repair. Did that with my son’s 4Runner. Title was not branded but were in Missouri so probably different. State Farm reinsured at full value after. The 4Runner is like Frankenstein’s monster now (new engine, tranny and body parts but not all from the accident).

 

[Fairgame]

No real damage there and you could source parts from a breaker yard or consider aftermarket panels. The cost is your time and labor and a respray

 

[Jczajka]

I like the idea of total then buyback to repair. Did that with my son’s 4Runner. Title was not branded but were in Missouri so probably different. State Farm reinsured at full value after. The 4Runner is like Frankenstein’s monster now (new engine, tranny and body parts but not all from the accident).

In Pennsylvania the only way to keep it from being a branded is take the truck back and fix out of pocket. If I get a pay out from the insurance company, they have will only return the truck, once I surrender the title to the State. Then I have to get a branded title, and special inspection once I rebuild it.

I plan on sourcing parts at yards, through my local Toyota that offers decent discounts, or other online dealers with their 25% off discounts that seem to be going around. I'm fine with doing much of the labor my self and maybe getting along with a couple of less than perfect parts.

The main issue is getting the insurance company to value my truck higher, so I get paid correctly and enough funds to fix it.

 

[Jczajka]

Spoke to a different claims agent at my insurance company and it seems they are trying to wrap up my claim. They seem amenable to making an adjustment to the valuation.

I told them that I thought the valuation on my truck was low, since all the mechanical parts of my truck have been fixed or replaced in the last 4 years and that its not rusty. Mentioned I have receipts for thousands I spent baselining and maintaining. I also told them that I looked around to find a new 100 series in the same condition as mine and it would cost me $12k-$14k to replace it right now. I also told him these trucks are rare, so picking the only 2 clapped out trucks that happen to be 100 mile from me are not fair comps, but and I was finding comparable trucks within 250 miles of me in that $12-14k range

Insurance want lists of similar vehicles for sale with higher list prices $7k. They said they would only take listings from lots, but I mentioned BaT, C&Bs, and Mud sold vehicles as comps and it seems they may count those too.

They also said they would consider my receipts for parts (I have done all the labor myself). Stipulations were they would only consider work done within the last year. Major work could be considered as well, mentioning engine or transmission rebuild as acceptable major work. I just replaced my master cylinder and all parts of the brakes/brake lines on all 4 corners. I did my timing belt/water pump/radiator/fan stuff/heater T, etc. and replaced globes/springs & rebuilt the AHC suspension 4 years ago, but would argue those are crucial items, like the engine to make the car drivable. Just did the starter last year.

The other pain in that my truck was already towed to a Copart lot. I didn't have the forethought to have it towed to my house right after the accident, I was just worried about getting off the middle of a busy road and getting my daughter home safe. So now I have to get escorted onto the lot by an employee to check for damage I may not have noticed earlier.

 

[peneumbra2]

Tell them NO - their offer is not sufficient. Tell them that the minimum you will accept is $ --,----. And stick to it. They'll come up.
And have the vehicle moved to your control.

 

[tone33]

Insurance companies are governed by state insurance laws. I went through this in TN a few years ago, so I'm not sure if its the same in your state. They offered me 5k for my well built and near mint 1998 truck. I refused, waited them out and eventually they made me a great offer that I accepted. I am with State Farm and they have a clause in the contract that allows for an appraisal to happen, using someone who does car appraisals, not just an insurance worker looking up book values. Just be patient, be firm and wait them out. They will eventually come up b/c they'll want to get it off their books. Remember that ins cos are businesses and generally want to maximize their profits, which means minimizing payouts. They will certainly start the offer at the lowest price they can to get the customer to accept, and keep their profits higher. You MUST negotiate, or be willing to leave a ton of money on the table. It's just how the system works, always has. Also, hold your agent accountable - get them involved and go to bat for you. It's a pain, but just stay the course - good luck!

 

[HStacks]

Tell them NO - their offer is not sufficient. Tell them that the minimum you will accept is $ --,----. And stick to it. They'll come up.
And have the vehicle moved to your control.

Op said its already at copart, so might be SOL on getting it back.

Unfortunately, these vehicles sell for more than expected at salvage auction. When my last was totalled, insurance offered me 4k to retain it. I thought I could get it back from Copart for less but it ended up being auctioned off for like 12k.

That said, tell them "no" ,find representative vehicles for sale within a days drive or so, and send them to you adjuster to build a better offer. While they work FOR the insurance company, they don't want to drag these negotiations out longer than needed so you can push them a bit.

Sorry bud, I know first hand how much of a pain this experience is.

 

[Jczajka]

Farmers has adjusted the valuation and are now offering $10,074 as the new value of my truck.

Initial valuation was $6762, so up a decent amount.

This was after a little back and forth with me saying their comps were neglected, rusty trucks and me sending real comps from here, BaT, C&Bs, and other sites showing trucks from $12-$16k list/sold prices.

Farmers used DCI Solutions as the valuation company this time. Te comps were two private party listings from AutoTrader and one dealer listing to bring the value up. They also increased the search range to 200 miles.

Farmers said if I'm still not happy I can hire my own independent appraiser to value my truck and then Farmers will hire their own. Those two appraisers will come together and agree on a value, and that is the final offer. No option to discuss or change once they agree. I still think the cash value of the truck should be hirer, based on the how rust free & mechanically up to date my truck was - and what I am seeing trucks sell for on Mud and other enthusiast sites.

I'm not sure if its worth spending the money on hiring my own guy to roll the dice and hope they bring the number above $10k for the value of my truck though.