I'm just going to say it

Kabanstva

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I personally don’t even give a s*** about rock crawling. Looks dangerous and not fun in a production vehicle. I’m watching rock bouncers do their thing and that looks like fun. Roll over, no problem. But seeing stock body Toyota’s on huge tires getting stuck and destroying their cars to get over a huge Boulder just doesn’t look like the best way to spend time. I’ll stick to fishing instead.
 

Broski

I love Wheelin my 80
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I personally don’t even give a s*** about rock crawling. Looks dangerous and not fun in a production vehicle. I’m watching rock bouncers do their thing and that looks like fun. Roll over, no problem. But seeing stock body Toyota’s on huge tires getting stuck and destroying their cars to get over a huge Boulder just doesn’t look like the best way to spend time. I’ll stick to fishing instead.
It's called technical wheeling and I love it !!
Fordyce Creek
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Moab
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Sand Hollow
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Coyote Lake
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Johnson Valley
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And it's beyond fun, Just wish more people would stick to fishing !!
 

Ozark Bushwalker

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Do they use Jeeps in the Australian outback and in Africa at all? I've never seen them used in any harsh environments.
IMO this is the crux of the comparison. After owning my 80 series, I came to the view that the Land Cruiser was designed for long-term durability first and foremost. Toyota expected them to be used in countries with many kms of unpaved roads, but they weren't necessarily designed for ultra-technical terrain and tight North-American style trails. For example, the solid front axle doesn't flex anymore than a mid-travel IFS setup, which makes me think it's there more for simplicity and durability than it is for negotiating boulders.

Yes you can build them to be competent in that kind of terrain, as members like Broski demonstrate. But that takes a lot of time and expense and a minitruck with twin sticks on J80 axles or stronger will likely get further on some extreme trails, all else being equal. Then again, the LC might have the advantage on certain obstacles with the longer wheelbase and wider track as other members alluded to earlier in the thread.

Jeeps and minitrucks, on the other hand, were engineered more for "fun." Obviously the driveline on an old XJ or first gen Tacoma is nowhere near as strong as a J8, nor are they overbuilt to the same degree. But they are smaller, lighter, and more nimble on trails. But as you said you won't see many putting in decades of service in the kind of harsh and remote environments you mentioned, with the possible exception of early Hiluxes. But then even the Land Cruisers you see in those kind of environments are usually bare-bones diesels with 5 speed gearboxes. Only in some parts of SA and the GCC are petrols the norm, and they don't have as many electronic and emissions components on their rigs AFAIK.

Part of the reason I moved on from my Cruiser is that it seemed les than ideal for the kind of trails we have around here: tight, narrow, lots of mud and river crossings, and slick mud and clay. The 80 series can be too big and heavy for some situations in this environment. It may be better suited to the kind of trails Broski runs, since the driveline is robust enough to cope with the fairly constant traction of the rocks, and there is little vegetation to get caught up in.

Anyway, sorry for my long-winded response. Of course, I am not an authority on the 80 series or off-roading, but it's just my .02 from what I've experienced.
 
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Well, since it is already derailed.....

Oh no I said it!

 

mudgudgeon

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Do they use Jeeps in the Australian outback and in Africa at all? I've never seen them used in any harsh environments.

Welp, if you watch Jeep advertising in Aus . . .

But, really, Jeep weren't being sold in Australia until about 15 years ago.

They aren't considered to a good choice for serious, remote travel.
That's in part because Toyota, Nissan, Landrover and others are so well entrenched in the market both in terms of new car sales, and also aftermarket support for outfitting etc

You do so a lot of jeeps with the full catalogue package bolted on, but never a speck of dirt on them.
 
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My manual gbox factory part-time no CDL or other lockers 80 is a top beast. approaching the 690 k km mark on orig 1hz motor and what's going to kill it is rust in the body. Engage front hubs, go into 1st gear low range (h150f box) and it'll go places.
 
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baldilocks

Battle Ground, WA
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Not sure if your assessment is true. Jeep is far superior offroad, especially rock crawling. I wheel with plenty of them.
Not in all situations and you wheel with very modified Jeeps. From the factory a locked 80 is ten times what a stock jeep is. And stock is what the OP referred to.

Put an 80 on 40’s with a 3 link on 1ton axles and a Jeep won’t leave it behind even if that Jeep doesn’t break down.

The 80 is so so versatile. Hard core rock crawling is the only arena that a Jeep might out perform the 80. In all other types of off roading the 80 is king for sure. You have told me stories that prove this.
 

baldilocks

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Welp, if you watch Jeep advertising in Aus . . .

But, really, Jeep weren't being sold in Australia until about 15 years ago.

They aren't considered to a good choice for serious, remote travel.
That's in part because Toyota, Nissan, Landrover and others are so well entrenched in the market both in terms of new car sales, and also aftermarket support for outfitting etc

You do so a lot of jeeps with the full catalogue package bolted on, but never a speck of dirt on them.
Same thing here…. Every part I man to man bolted to Jeeps without even one scratch.
 
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Jeeps are 7-slot deathtrap junkboxes. ;) Just saying. Anything related to Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep out of the 'modern stable' basically. Sadly I don't think 300 series cruisers if Toyota can make em will live up to the hype either as there is no pov-back basic bush-rugged version of them and wasn't with the 200's either.
 

micruz60

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TIL
there's a Toronto in Australia
 
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TIL
there's a Toronto in Australia
There is indeed. We also have a Newcastle here (major regional city about 30 km away). Toronto is about 100 km north of Sydney. There endeth the geography class. And I've been to Toronto CA back when int travel was affordable (in the mid-90's). Haven't been to Newcastle UK though.
 
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Been binge watching 4WD 24-7 which my buddy just introduced to me a few days ago. Really surprised at the lack of suspension travel the 79 and 76 Series have. The 76 Series looked just down right dangerous. Most here in our LC club would drool over owning either, but now I wouldn’t be so sure. Surprised at how well the Ford Ranger did on their massive trek into the Kimberly region after ASPW poo-pooed it in one of his vids I saw recently as well. Also very surprised at how well a 200 Series did in some brutal mud filled uphill trails. The 80 Series seems to always shine as the best “overall” Toyota platform, but of course we forget a lot has to do with driver skill and knowledge.
 
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There is indeed. We also have a Newcastle here (major regional city about 30 km away). Toronto is about 100 km north of Sydney. There endeth the geography class. And I've been to Toronto CA back when int travel was affordable (in the mid-90's). Haven't been to Newcastle UK though.
Haha, lived in Toronto in the mid-90’s for many years. Never heard of a Toronto in Australia until now.
 
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Random Jeep bashing:

A friend has a JK. I tried to help him recently with a breakdown where the vehicle went into limp mode.

At first, it appeared (from OBD2) that it was the crank position sensor. We verified 5V to the sensor and replaced it. No change. Another OBD2 error was the EGR valve, but no biggie so we didn't worry about it. It gets towed to the Jeep dealership where it sits for over a week because they don't have enough techs.

After a thousand dollars to replace some harness running to the transmission, he gets it back. A week later he's stranded again. It gets towed back to the dealership, where it sits for over two weeks before anyone can even look at it.

This time they replaced the EGR sensor. Turns out that was the problem all along. With CANBUS, all the sensors we were dealing with are on one 5V loop. One piece goes bad and you lose everything. In this case, the EGR sensor had an intermittent fault that was randomly disabling the entire vehicle.

So, this is really more of a rant about modern vehicles. I'll happily take my '94 Land Cruiser to remote places. It's mechanically sound (unlike Jeep transmissions and transfer cases) and if something electronic goes bad it won't take the entire rest of the system with it.

Incidentally, while trying to research the problems he was having, I discovered that the later (3.6?) engines have problems with their cam position sensors. Why? Because a couple of bolts often back out over time, causing oil to leak past them, interfering with the function of the sensors. A dumb design that would have been fixed with some loc-tite at the factory.


I'll never understand why Toyota didn't release an up-sized, modern 40 series in the last decade. It would have sold like mad in the US market.

Anyway, if I wanted a disposable, reasonably capable all-purpose vehicle with a ton of bolt-on aftermarket support, a Wrangler would be it. But I'd sell it by 70k miles.
 
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Not in all situations and you wheel with very modified Jeeps. From the factory a locked 80 is ten times what a stock jeep is. And stock is what the OP referred to.

Put an 80 on 40’s with a 3 link on 1ton axles and a Jeep won’t leave it behind even if that Jeep doesn’t break down.

The 80 is so so versatile. Hard core rock crawling is the only arena that a Jeep might out perform the 80. In all other types of off roading the 80 is king for sure. You have told me stories that prove this.
I did mention rock crawling....Jeep > 80s...95% for MUD, 80s > Jeep.
 
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This is one of the dumbest arguments I have heard in 10 years of being on mud....

Rubicons are not rock crawlers, neither are 80's.. or 40's, 55's, 60', cj3's, cj5's, wagoneer's etc. If you want to build one or the other into an actual crawler, you will end up with the same axles, suspension and transfer case under either (if you are smart about it).

You can put a ton of money into toyota or rubicon axles and make them decent, but they still aren't 1 tons. I know, I have a diamond front with a 9.5 center, hellfire knuckles, rcv's, 32 spline shafts and arp hardware. Its the best you can do staying all toyota, but its no dana 60. Neither is a dana 44.
 

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