I can't drive 55

[island45]

Burnt my finger big time testing front rotor when this happened on wife's outback. (Ouchback)

 

[MatthewMcD]

See if the inner race of your wheel bearings have spun on the spindle.

I'll need to get a couple lock washers before I take them apart again.

Were the rears hot? Did you jack it up to check resistance to spin?

The rears were only 80-85*. Not hot at all.

 

[MatthewMcD]

Did you measure temps on both front wheels? Rears? I'm just trying to figure out if it's 1 wheel or maybe more, so we can isolate thr problem. I think 147* is way too much.

I'll do another test run tomorrow before I adjust the booster. Previously, both front hubs were hot to the touch, so I feel we're on the right track. When @RevISK pulled up today we measured his and they were 90* and not at all hot.

 

[77mustard40]

You’re only a couple of beers from the finish line Matt, progress!

 

[mrboatman]

You’re zeroing in on the problem .

 

[pb4ugo]

I don't think you need to adjust the rod. I think the rears would be hot too. Most times the rod adjustment seems to effect the rears 1st, barring low brake adjustment.

Do your test drive. It seems the issue is the same for both front brakes. To me, this points to an issue with the soft line going from the frame to the front axle or a kinked line somewhere on the frt brake circuit. There might be a brake or bearing problem at the knuckles, but both sides would have to happen at the same time.

 

[knuckle47]

I ordered the City Racer master cylinder today for a disk brake swap based on several recommendations when converting front drums to disk. It wasn’t my plan to do so but reading more and more about it due to your fantastic diagnostic thread here Matt. If it F’s up, the part will be here ready to replace. Also, instilling the fear in me to just leave well enough alone.

It does seem like your 60MPH is a 30% improvement over your previous info. Looks promising!

 

[MatthewMcD]

I ordered the City Racer master cylinder today for a disk brake swap based on several recommendations when converting front drums to disk. It wasn’t my plan to do so but reading more and more about it due to your fantastic diagnostic thread here Matt. If it F’s up, the part will be here ready to replace. Also, instilling the fear in me to just leave well enough alone.

It does seem like your 60MPH is a 30% improvement over your previous info. Looks promising!

Plus, I'd rather buy from City Racer than Amazon. At the time IIRC, they were out of stock. (Ot I was too dumb to choose a Mud vendor.)

 

[MatthewMcD]

I don't think you need to adjust the rod. I think the rears would be hot too. Most times the rod adjustment seems to effect the rears 1st, barring low brake adjustment.

Do your test drive. It seems the issue is the same for both front brakes. To me, this points to an issue with the soft line going from the frame to the front axle or a kinked line somewhere on the frt brake circuit. There might be a brake or bearing problem at the knuckles, but both sides would have to happen at the same time.

I am working on ordering replacement brake lines. I admit, my rears need to be adjusted.

 

[knuckle47]

I’m sitting here reminiscing Matt, you never really know the history of any previous owners work or quality. You apparently work meticulously and very focused. Some people bolt everything together and consider it a job well-done and never look back until it winds up in your hands.

Some motorcycles I had restored were treasured pieces by a generation of owners who recognized the value of what they had and very little had been adulterated. Then there were those where every owner had their own ideas of what made it look and run better, or so they thought….cut fenders, frames, wires, bent or stripped bolts and more bondo that anyone should be allowed to own. The net result on anyone whose attempts to return it to its former glory is absurd and takes the hardest hit.

You have worked too hard not to solve this dilemma very soon. I admire your persistence and perseverance regarding your openness and your outlook in resolving this. The frustrations your not revealing would eat me alive and I’d probably let everyone know it. I am very good at creating and blending new curse words if you need any

 

[BOBWhite74]

I put a front wheel disk master on a 4 wheel drum system and I can't remember what I did about a valve. I don't think I have ever had problems with my front brakes sticking.
Do you know if the front end bearings have ever been gone through? I need to rebuild mine but haven't had the time.

 

[MatthewMcD]

I put a front wheel disk master on a 4 wheel drum system and I can't remember what I did about a valve. I don't think I have ever had problems with my front brakes sticking.
Do you know if the front end bearings have ever been gone through? I need to rebuild mine but haven't had the time.

If you mean, did I rebuild the front bearing races and wheel bearings when I did the knuckles, YES, I did. I did the whole knuckle and bearings all at the same time.

 

[MatthewMcD]

I’m sitting here reminiscing Matt, you never really know the history of any previous owners work or quality. You apparently work meticulously and very focused. Some people bolt everything together and consider it a job well-done and never look back until it winds up in your hands.

Some motorcycles I had restored were treasured pieces by a generation of owners who recognized the value of what they had and very little had been adulterated. Then there were those where every owner had their own ideas of what made it look and run better, or so they thought….cut fenders, frames, wires, bent or stripped bolts and more bondo that anyone should be allowed to own. The net result on anyone whose attempts to return it to its former glory is absurd and takes the hardest hit.

You have worked too hard not to solve this dilemma very soon. I admire your persistence and perseverance regarding your openness and your outlook in resolving this. The frustrations your not revealing would eat me alive and I’d probably let everyone know it. I am very good at creating and blending new curse words if you need any

I appreciate the insight and encouragement. I am not trying to do a pristine restoration, but I want her to be mechanically sound, enough that I'd trust "the machine" to bring my wife home safely.

I think she's got good bones. May need a new engine, or at least the right engine.

We'll get there.

 

[MatthewMcD]

When you stomp on the brakes do the front or rear wheels lock up?

What's the right answer here? Once I get the booster readjusted I will adjust the rears too. I assume it's better to have the rear drums lock up.

 

[hobbes]

Nope. You want the fronts to just lock up.

Drum brakes when dry, cool, and properly adjusted have great stopping power. The problem is you need all three and the last one is a challenge on manual adjusting drums like the 40 series have.

(Full disclaimer: at this point in my life I hate drums and points, though I still have rear drums...)

 

[45Dougal]

You're slipping down the leader board!
What are we going to do in our spare time now!?
Glad to see you're making progress; hope it still handles well over 60!

 

[fireflyr]

I appreciate the insight and encouragement. I am not trying to do a pristine restoration, but I want her to be mechanically sound, enough that I'd trust "the machine" to bring my wife home safely.

I think she's got good bones. May need a new engine, or at least the right engine.

We'll get there.

Wait, I’m a little confused….. Are you saying you’re wife has good bones but needs a new engine?

 

[lcwizard]

To test if the pressure is building up in the calipers, due to improper adjustment of the master, grab a 10mm wrench and go driving.
Use the brakes over and over a dozen times, stop , jump out and crack a bleed screw on one of the front calipers. You'll know immediately if there's
a pressure buildup. There's a relief port in the master that lets the brake fluid return to the reservoir. If the piston doesn't come back far enough it won't expose the port and let the fluid return. I once had a brand new master that locked up on every drive withing a mile. I pulled the cups to inspect and found the relief port had been drilled only halfway through. Maybe a bit broke in the manufacture or the cnc program glitched out. I drilled it through and everything worked fine

 

[MatthewMcD]

Wait, I’m a little confused….. Are you saying you’re wife has good bones but needs a new engine?

My wife laughed at this, thanks.

 

[MatthewMcD]

I think that the Amazon delivery algorithm looks at a tool you need and decides "10 pm delivery will be fine...". Anyway, it finally arrived, and I readjusted the booster. To say that it was out of adjustment is an understatement.

I adjusted the nut down to the rod height minus 0.6mm. Reinstalled the master cylinder and bled the system. Took a test drive and stopped to get more brake fluid. Checked the hubs and they were cool. ~90 degrees, same as the rears.

I got it up on the highway and hit 65 MPH at 2800 RPM.

I think we figured out the issue. Thank you to everyone who participated. I KNOW that the incremental improvements we made in timing, tuning, and valves, made this performance possible. But for those who have been waiting for the "silver bullet" it was the brakes. Without a doubt.