FiTech/Sniper Distributor ??? (1 Viewer)

[ryanwk628]

Bumping an old thread. I was looking online and saw Holley now makes distributors for a Chevy straight 6. Does anyone know if this is one of the applications you can swap a Toyota gear onto and run in our trucks? I dont know enough about the GM inline engines. It looks like it is set up to drive the oil pump (unlike the V6 ones they have listed)

 

[zerotreedelta]

Bumping an old thread. I was looking online and saw Holley now makes distributors for a Chevy straight 6. Does anyone know if this is one of the applications you can swap a Toyota gear onto and run in our trucks? I dont know enough about the GM inline engines. It looks like it is set up to drive the oil pump (unlike the V6 ones they have listed)
View attachment 2713666

EDIT: this was for the Jeep 258 variant, not the Chevy I6...but same quirks methinks.

I'm going that route, but it needs machining and minor mods to make it fit the 2F. The shaft OD is a bit large (a few thousand, very very minor) and needs reducing, the gear needs swapping, and the length from the collar to the oil pump is short, so you need to press and relocate the pickup under the cap by a smidge.

I gave mine a test fit and it sits nice now, but engine is apart so haven't run it yet. Block should get assembled in a few weeks as my paint is drying...will see what I learn then. Given it's pretty simple internally, and the mods let it fit the 2F now, I don't see why it won't work...but definitely not OOTB fitment.

 

[ryanwk628]

I'm going that route, but it needs machining and minor mods to make it fit the 2F. The shaft OD is a bit large (a few thousand, very very minor) and needs reducing, the gear needs swapping, and the length from the collar to the oil pump is short, so you need to press and relocate the pickup under the cap by a smidge.

I gave mine a test fit and it sits nice now, but engine is apart so haven't run it yet. Block should get assembled in a few weeks as my paint is drying...will see what I learn then. Given it's pretty simple internally, and the mods let it fit the 2F now, I don't see why it won't work...but definitely not OOTB fitment.

Awesome, Im going to follow your thread and check out your videos.

Do you mean you had to press the shaft down from above to make it longer? How much did it have to move?

 

[zerotreedelta]

Yeah, basically - once you pull the gear, the shaft just comes out the top. From there, you can take a hair off the lower to get the shaft OD correct to fit the 2F gear and 2F oil pump recess. While it's out, the upper is just an aluminum disk with a slot to key the rotor, and a windowed "hat" that the pickup keys off of. The disk is pressed on and then drilled for a roll pin...if you press out the roll pin, you can heat the disk and push the shaft down that bit - don't recall exact, but it wasn't much...maybe 1/4" or so, which leaves plenty for the rotor still, and then you can redrill for the roll pin. You do need to fabricate an appropriate shim/spacer as well for the lower - the distance from the oil pump tang to the gear and gear pin is correct, but it's too short to reach the oil pump unless you push the shaft "lower".

Alternatively, you could probably chuck up the housing and machine off that lip, and then work an new mounting lip as a way to get that reach to the cam and oil pump...but I opted to shuffle the drive instead.

 

[Paul V]

That’s above my pay grade. Hopefully not long before someone sells the updated hyperspark. Put a hyperspark distributor, ignition and coil in my 72 Z28 and it is awesome. Wired it all up, turned the key, and started like a 2021 Camaro.

 

[zerotreedelta]

So, I've got a few hours of runtime on the ol' Sniper + Hyperspark, and pretty happy thus far. Going to recheck the gear mesh one more time while the body is off, but everything is looking good there thus far. Similar to @Paul V 's comment above, it lights right off with a bump of the starter, as long as you wait for the fuel pump to cycle and the Sniper to give the little "poof" of a prime shot.

Only initial quirk was that running it without an alternator can make it a smidge cranky due to lower voltage, but my battery also seems to have a bad cell, so that only makes it worse. Running with a power supply to stabilize the voltage keeps it happy until the body gets back on and the alternator gets its regulator (and I pick up a new battery)

Just been letting it run in learn mode for now with some basic parameters, but started to learn the Holley software and read up a bit on the stock 2F dizzy curves...from what I can tell, this is the rough timing map...but if any of the dizzy gurus have any insights, I'm all ears. I'll have to recheck the mmHg => kPa conversions, but seemed like this is the map when you combine the centrifugal and vacuum advance, with some slight smoothing:

 

[zerotreedelta]

Oh, and it clears everything nicely, pretty similar size to the small-cap stock. Knowing what I know now, I'm guessing you could even just dunk the guts in a stock shell if you really wanted a sleeper setup...but probably not worth it most days.

 

[wngrog]

Nice research.

 

[Paul V]

Oh, and it clears everything nicely, pretty similar size to the small-cap stock. Knowing what I know now, I'm guessing you could even just dunk the guts in a stock shell if you really wanted a sleeper setup...but probably not worth it most days.

View attachment 2762121

I think you need to just sell me that hyperspark and buy another one. I’d love to have that setup but I don’t think I should be playing with the tools it took to make it right. So you’re not doing hyperspark ignition or coil?

Mine is idling high, like 1400, and it’s not coming up to temp to learn. So I’m guessing I have no thermostat on it. Going to try that, then burp it and hope I don’t have a bad water pump, but I don’t think I do or I would have overheated on the test drives.

 

[zerotreedelta]

It's the full setup - Sniper for the EFI, and the Hyperspark distributor/coil/ECU for the ignition.

My OEM coil was pretty tired, so just went with the full setup to give it a go. The Hyperspark coil should mount up pretty nicely where the old coil+igniter box was on the fender.

I'm hoping the tub (ie, firewall) should drop back on the frame by Friday, then we'll see what it takes to get the wiring loom tidy...I foresee some degree of de-pinning and re-looming to get it to look coherent. I'm hoping to pop the ignition box/ecu in the driver footwell where the old emission controller box was, it's about the same size.

 

[brian az]

[...] I'm hoping to pop the ignition box/ecu in the driver footwell where the old emission controller box was, it's about the same size.

Once you've done the initial setup wizard, you can just disconnect the screen if you don't want to look at it. The ECU is built into the Sniper unit itself.

Also, any updates? I'm really interested in trying a Hyperspark on my 2F/Sniper setup.

 

[zerotreedelta]

I'm not talking about the screen - the Hyperspark has a larger ECU type box (similar to an MSD box).

Planning to button up the harness this weekend...I think the Hyperspark box is going to end up in the glove box where the old "speaker cage" was .

So far, happy with the setup...I think getting the timing curve set will help quite a bit.

 

[EWheeler]

I'm not talking about the screen - the Hyperspark has a larger ECU type box (similar to an MSD box).

Planning to button up the harness this weekend...I think the Hyperspark box is going to end up in the glove box where the old "speaker cage" was .

So far, happy with the setup...I think getting the timing curve set will help quite a bit.

What is the benefit of the hyperspark over a DUI distibutor? Seems like the DUI unit is simpler and less external stuff to fuss with. Is the hyperspark programmmable?

 

[ryanwk628]

What is the benefit of the hyperspark over a DUI distibutor? Seems like the DUI unit is simpler and less external stuff to fuss with. Is the hyperspark programmmable?

Timing is controlled by the computer in conjunction with the fuel injection rather than by weights and vacuum. DUI (HEI) still has a coil, it is just built into the cap rather than being external.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Indeed - just more control over timing, and a bit better integration with the Sniper setup. I looked back at the Hyperspark, and the box I need to dunk in the glovebox is just your typical CDI box, albeit designed to work with the Sniper.

One thing that I didn't think of until setting it up was being able to set a different timing for starting/cranking - that's part of the initial setup wizard, and somewhat limited for typical distributors. I just set it to the same base 7* static to be safe to start with, but I'm sure tweaking that could improve starting (not that it's a slow start currently). Seeing timing on the Holley dash is also somewhat helpful while road tuning or debugging issues.

I'll report out more after I can actually get the rig on the road - I've only done garage runs so far. I should make a pretty good dent on assembly this weekend...needed to get the trans tunnel cover painted today, but also waiting on a replacement fuel tank.

 

[Paul V]

Any update? I’m about out of troubleshooting and it’s down to ignition. Good vacuum but it bogs down when you stomp on it. Vacuum good to the distributor and steady at idle. Rather not spend time fixing this one if I’m going to end up with a hyperspark or DUI.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Nothing major - did have one fail with a bad hall effect sensor, but replaced that and back in business. Hoping to get it actually out of the garage and on the road this weekend if I can snag insurance today. Starts and runs well in the garage, though. It'll need some tuning on the timing side I'm sure, but overall still seems like a decent, clean setup.

I will have a spare HS dizzy soon...I didn't want to wait on service for the hall effect, so I just ordered a second and the first is off for repairs at the moment.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Side-side note, any of the dizzy gurus know where you'd track down this style of gear? Saw it on one of the HEI varieties for the 2F, and it looks like it'd work for you'd need for the HS "conversion" to get the length right.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Well, got a couple very short drives in...so that's progress. The first was with the basic tuning from the wizard, but it was very conservative on the timing, so it had some flat spots.

After that, I pushed in the timing table that should be relatively close to the factory distributor, if my math is right converting KPa/mmhg and MAP vs vacuum. Took another loop, and picked up a bit of pep as expected. Still some spots that bogged a smidge, but it's also still very early in the fuel learning for the Sniper. The data logs should be pretty handy going forward to get it dialed in. Log below is a short 1st/2nd/3rd/4th gear shift, but only 1/2 throttle or so...red is RPM, blue is MAP, green is timing. Ended up around 26* at 2000RPM doing 40mph or so, which seems reasonable...but will check the math to confirm.

Side note, my timing table above was upside down - below is fixed.

So far, so good, other than chasing down my alternator/charging quirk...still whittling down the haystack, curious if it's related to the CDI at all. Otherwise, the fact that the tuning is sharable should make this setup relatively palatable for others that want to go that route methinks.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Oh, and a side note - I thought mine was the Chevy I6 one (#565-316), but I had gotten the Jeep 258 (#565-307) one at the time. I don't think the Chevy I6 was available then from what I recall...the Jeep one was the only one remotely similar to the 2F one then.

Holley Sniper EFI 565-307 Sniper EFI HyperSpark Distributor - Jeep 258

Introducing HyperSpark Ignition, from Sniper EFI. Designed with one goal, to easily add Ignition Timing Control to nearly any Sniper EFI installation. The HyperSpark Distributor housing is billet aluminum stuffed with a Hall Effect crank signal sensor for a noise-free rpm signal to your Sniper...

www.holley.com

Holley Sniper EFI 565-316 Sniper EFI HyperSpark Distributor - 250ci Chevrolet Straight 6

HyperSpark distributors are plug and play with all Holley Sniper EFI systems, featuring a high quality billet distributor housing, Hall Effect crank trigger sensor, and they come included with the fool proof patented clear installation cap. All of our HyperSpark distributors are also available...

www.holley.com

It looks like the Chevy one has the slightly longer tang to mounting flange length you'd need, which would eliminate the need to reposition the shaft...but I don't know for sure, just going by the photos. Both are setup for CW rotation. My suspicion is that the Chevy one might fit with a gear swap and possibly just that slight reduction in OD on the shaft to fit into the oil pump channel.