First Time Pig "Build"

[Delancy]

Personally, i would not have gotten it, or at least not for that price. What recourse do you have?

I figured.

Feel pretty dumb, all things considered, having been through a very meticulous 80 search.

At this point, Jason, I don't know what recourse there'd be, considering the sellers circumstances, short of renegotiating which he's privy to within reason.

I think the seller misrepresented it some.

I want to think differently, but after the LX450 purchase and uncovering PO crap, I won't go as far to say it's not out if the realm of possibility.

I've spent considerable time talking to him, know the vehicle has say for the year he's owned due to medical issues, and was always clear in stating it wasn't perfect, but having put an emphasis on

Not to mention trying to work on a rusty vehicle.

Hate it mechanically, but I'm so far out of my league on panel replacement, I'm concerned to say the least.

Fortunately, all is not lost. bobm makes 55 body parts!!! Contact him on what you may want to do.

Been all over the thread and the reading threads of majority of respondents that purchased from him.

Have spoken with Josh about some of what's evident (which is a lot.....so scary since I know that's only on the surface) and he's checking what they may have, checking to see what's useable of the Edmond parts pig, too.

Yellow title? Whats that mean? Is that salvage?

I don't know what your referencing, but now more concerned. Title status was discussed early on in the conversation and if its anything but a clear Arkansas title, he can come pick it up.

My concern was the 9 digit VIN and if it been titled since he'd purchased, the resulting mess I hear of many enduring. I was very clear and concise is asking about the state, date, name in which, and what type of title it was.

It's possible that Arkansas may have different titles for vehicles lacking certifiably mileage documentation, but I've never heard the term "yellow title" before you mentioned.

He left the title at home, saying in the haste of loading up, forgot on counter. I had intended on a trip to the tag agency with him, but his time was limited.

I sent him my FedEx info so he's going to a local FedEx Office to overnight title tomorrow. Will be taking directly to tag agency once I receive.

No money has changed hands, before I'm lambasted, nor a Bill of Sale signed.

I don't think he's being deceitful, but I've been schooled before.

It needs a birf job badly. However, before going through the trouble of doing it, I would get FJ60 parts and do a disc conversion. You will want discs over drums. Then you can do the birf job while you swap your parts over.

Tentative plan, based on reads. Disc brakes are a definite. Was about to query resources for parts earlier in the day, in anticipation of tearing into the mechanical, but after seeing, need to formulate a systematic plan.

Don't know where to start, now.

Hopefully the drivetrain is good. Outside of the body work, I will have to agree with Pighead that this would be a great time to learn how to do some of this stuff, as it will save you some coin that you can put towards body work. Thats an art unto itself I am finding out.

I was looking at swaps before, but I don't think this will be the ideal candidate for, as I wish the drive train were shot, body was pristine, because that decision would be easier. Haha.

It's actually the opposite. The engine sounds strong and short of the electrical issue, once she's running, as Pighead put it, she just wants to run. It doesn't sound nor act like an engine this age, but the block and valve cover are cleaner than the balance of the bay, so it's possible it's been gone through, already. Don't know if that's a plus or negative.

Pour yourself a cold one and relish that you are now a pig owner and that it's a journey to get it where you want. Congrats!

I've looked forward to this for awhile, a little initial disappointment, but I did want a project, to some degree.

I considered buying a more completed foundation, but y'all make this chit look to easy, and was geared up to dig in....just not starting with this degree of correction.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

the worst thing I saw as that carb break out the sanding gear and call Bobm. welcome aboard.

 

[Delancy]

Make darn sure everything is right with the title, BEFORE you exchange funds. You did good by not giving him any yet.

For sure.

Put my agent on hold until I have title in hand, just to avoid the hassle if all's for nought, but as soon as I have title, going straight to tag office to ensure there will be absolutely no issues transferring.

Then you have to decide how far you want to go, work and money wise and get at it.

I have a really bad problem, a disease of sorts, known as "while I'm in there", and coupled with the innate ability to throw all reasonable decision making to the wayside it makes for interesting builds.

Already feel an obligation here, just unsure of the direction.

 

[Delancy]

All the interior bits there?

Tucker

It appears.

In the past six months, I've a photo montage that I've used as guideline for what to look for, and nothing seems to be missing.

Something to keep in mind, as shameful as this is to say. I've never studied a complete Pig. They're more elusive than unmolested 40s and 60s in this area, so my knowledge is limited to what I've absorbed here.

Why I loved the idea of building.

 

[tucker74]

Already feel an obligation here, just unsure of the direction.

Fix clutch, fix brakes, make sure the ties are good and drive it around the block with a big s*** eating grin . Park it, ponder more ... you'll figure out where to go. Piggys get under your skin -

Tucker

 

[Delancy]

I've seen worse...
Believe the engine was rebuilt...it's hard to paint a block blue with it in the rig.
'69 dizzy, new gear reduction starter, hard to believe they didn't replace the clutch...

Wish I could tell when, but it runs strong and is the cleanest component.

Based on your previous statement of Aboriginal skills capable of rebuilding, would you assume that it may be better than a half assed job due to the paint?

It sounds good and feels responsive, to my surprise.

I'm going to assume that the other components are a plus, but is there a reason a 69' dizzy would used?

 

[Delancy]

Hey Chris, Just to give you some prospective. I recently bought a pig myself. It was an impulse buy from out of state. Was somewhat mislead from the PO, but ended up bringing it home. Paid way too much, but I just have to live with it.

How I feel right now, but sadly I thought I had self-educated enough to avoid.

I'm hoping to discuss the deal further, and not in an upper hand way, to negotiate the price further below the point it is now.

Sadly, I know that if he were to give it to me free, it's still going to be a massive undertaking, so I keep telling myself it's for the better good, in the spirit of preservation, which helps. Haha.

I bought a body shell from Jason at CruiserYard about a month ago and at this point I have the old body off the frame. I've taken off what I can salvage and all that remains is the shell. My plan is to scrap it. Some of the body mounts are good as well as parts of the flooring and wheel wells. You are welcome to any of it. I'd be happy to cut out the pieces you might need for free and send them your way, just cover the shipping. If you are interested pm me a list of what you need. Mark

Thanks, Mark. Appreciate the offer and the spirit of Mud.

I don't know what I need, yet, nor a sensible plan the where to even begin.

To be honest, I've already got it in my head that I'll be doing similar to you on the body and taking it down to the frame and working forward, but that may change based on the advice once I can really spend a few hours going over everything.

Based on what I can see on the roof, there's been years of ponding that's occurred where it's unsupported, so thinking it may have been popped out and there may be damage on the underside that I can't see, yet.

Headliners trash, so don't know if I should strip to see, what to preserve, or anything yet.

Anyhow, we're in a similar boat, I guess, so will be catching up on your progress to see how you dealt with.

Thank you for the offer. Hopefully can determine more tomorrow.

 

[Delancy]

Fix clutch, fix brakes, make sure the ties are good and drive it around the block with a big s*** eating grin . Park it, ponder more ... you'll figure out where to go. Piggys get under your skin -

Tucker

Already has.

Guess I'll be researching what to order and from where on both, along with chasing down the electrical issue, so it'll start unassisted.

Right now, the driving motivation is the engine, so hopefully can build steam by just hearing it run.

 

[Delancy]

the worst thing I saw as that carb break out the sanding gear and call Bobm. welcome aboard.

I'll add the carb to the ever growing list. Haha.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[abqcruiser]

I actually picked mine up from Arkansas. The PO registered it there as an antique and it was a one time registration from what I was told. Maybe getting a clean title there is no big deal. Let me know what you find on your roof. Mine had similar issues as well, maybe it's an Arkansas thing. Anyway, I was able to pop out both dents no problem. Mark

 

[Pighead]

but is there a reason a 69' dizzy would used?

The '69 and earlier (sometimes also called "Non- US") is a vacuum advance dizzy, and better than the vacuum retard dizzy that would have come stock. One of my favorite LC dizzys, I ran one for years with the Pertronix in it on my Pig, just recently swapped in a Big-cap.

 

[Delancy]

Let me know what you find on your roof.

Good to know on Arkansas title.

In OK, there's an option to title that's a one time fee, but essentially requires no insurance verification. I've a 92 GMC with a similar registration, now that I've thought about it.

Upon returning to service, it eliminates the penalties associated with not paying the annual renewal.

There's no inspections in OK, other than VIN, ODO, and insurance, the first two requiring on site, but will tow to closer tag office where stored, if need be.

Hoping for two personalized plates, one for each "build", which is out of character, but screw it.

Have title tomorrow, as seller stated late last night.

Went by early, after a sleepless night (the benefit of Cruiser projects. It masks real world stresses, so when lying awake about other crap, can focus on builds) and checked roof and the actual sheet metal sounds solid, can lift back into place (unsure of deformation) but is separated from the substructure below, in similar fashion as the hood.

I've relegated myself to doing this, right. I have DD options, one being a distant cousins, in the ex-wheeler FJC, the new wheeler and the other "build", a continual work in progress






All the time in the world, but a spirit of haste to not allow for it to grow sedentary.

That said, believe I'd like to focus on returning the exterior and interior to a semblance of it's original glory with interior creature comforts, like deadener and AC (it's hot in OK), restore what's possible and replace what's not, possibly entertain the idea of a Toyota power plant change, minor lift to embrace the heritage with comparable suspension, but only to not preclude for usage from driving at highway speeds with the family.

(Diversion: bought the FJC after pre-Mud, well pre-Internet participation, six year search for a rust free 40 and kids hate the back seat.
Bought the pink panty 80, partially under the guise that it was family friendly, wife doesn't like it.
She did like the 55, so a partial goal is to ensure that continues)

That said, I'm not concerned about immediately driving and ready to begin the disassembly, I believe, but wanted to throw that out to the pros before tearing it down.

If I encounter more body work than I feel I can complete and still warrant paint, will call on the resources of Josh and Mike at Cruiser Corps, since they'll likely be painting, anyway.

It's a blank slate with no more determined than I'm ready to do it right, and I'm very open to suggestions, to which I listen to, this time around.

 

[Delancy]

The '69 and earlier (sometimes also called "Non- US") is a vacuum advance dizzy, and better than the vacuum retard dizzy that would have come stock. One of my favorite LC dizzys, I ran one for years with the Pertronix in it on my Pig, just recently swapped in a Big-cap.

Gotcha.

My search feature sucks on App, since this sub forum doesn't result, but believe I found a thread and bookmarked, pretty sure that reply was explained, verbatim.

 

[Pighead]

Fix clutch, fix brakes,

No. Fix brakes THEN fix clutch...
1) Brakes are easier to fix.
B) Don't assume it's a clutch disc that needs replacing. especially with the history of engine rebuild. I've rarely seen a bad disc in a Pig, could be another reason for the slipping.
III) I'd rather be stopped and wishing I could go than going and wishing I could stop.

 

[scrapdaddy]

No. Fix brakes THEN fix clutch...
1) Brakes are easier to fix.
B) Don't assume it's a clutch disc that needs replacing. especially with the history of engine rebuild. I've rarely seen a bad disc in a Pig, could be another reason for the slipping.
III) I'd rather be stopped and wishing I could go than going and wishing I could stop.

Good point on that last one! That's a bad feeling, trying to stop.

 

[Delancy]

I've rarely seen a bad disc in a Pig, could be another reason for the slipping.

What would you think may be a cause if not the clutch?

Is clutch cable a possibility?

For the brakes:

Disc are a guarantee, as is a full axle rebuild. I don't foresee the need for Long's, lockers, or anything beyond OE, since 33s may be the largest tire and build purpose isn't a full wheeler.

That said, if the F remains, which I'm not opposed to, simply because I lack the experience to oppose, isn't this a good time to consider gear ratios?

Pretty much, going to completely rebuild the front and rear axles with purpose of disc brakes and gear swap, if necessary, stripping to bare metal, unless that's a bad idea this early.

That's something I can do, save setting up gears, or at least I've never done on any LC third before.

 

[arcteryx]

I reread your post, you were saying the color is yellow, it just followed the title. So I think you can ignore my comment.

As far as price, I dont think its far off, I have seen worse as Pighead has stated- the one on DFW CL currently for $650 is really bad. Be glad you didnt get Mushro'd and spend 25K for a 5K rig!!

You can also talk to Texican, he has a herd of pigs and may have a shell he would sell you.

For the clutch, start with the easy stuff- fluid in clutch master cylinder? Then check your pedal adjustment. Then replace both the clutch master and slave since they are pretty cheap ($70-80 for both) and well within your ability. If it still fails/slips, you may need replacement.

 

[Delancy]

I reread your post, you were saying the color is yellow, it just followed the title.

Gotcha.

The yellow color is perplexing, too, since I can't find any info that states it was specific to the year.

Will be checking fluid levels tomorrow. Maybe it'll be that easy.

 

[nuclearbeef]

When I bought my first fj40, I got $1000 knocked off the price because of a "bad clutch" that was slipping.

It was a leaking slave cylinder. I think I fixed it for $23.00.

JW

 

[Pighead]

What would you think may be a cause if not the clutch?

Is clutch cable a possibility?

Highly doubtful, as I see a hydraulic clutch master on the firewall, where it should be. Then again, it may fun to have you call C.Dan and ask for a clutch cable...

I can think of half a dozen possible reasons why the clutch may not be releasing fully. There were two different clutch set-ups used in the early '70s, commonly called the 3-speed and the 4-speed. Or the diaphragm clutch vs. the fingers clutch.
Each used a different fork, fork pivot, throwout, throwout hub, slave push-rod, etc.
One must use ALL of the related parts from one system or the other, they do not mix and match well (well, the slave rod can be used from a 3-speed to a 4-speed if you cut an inch or so off of it...BTDT). Anyway, if one of the incorrect parts were used to reassemble the clutch, weird things could happen. Or, the throwout bearing is not retracting completely due to something... Or the slave cylinder is not allowing the fork to release completely...or something similar.
Also, the 3-speed flywheel is cut differently from the 4-speed, there is quite a step cut into it. perhaps a 4-speed pressure plate is getting hung up? Just grasping at straws at this point.
Many things to examine and test and adjust before you drop the transmission.
I would add to your shopping list rebuild kits for your slave master & slave cylinders. (and more brake fluid) perhaps inquire about having a new clutch hose made (mine is stainless, like my brake hoses).


Edit: Your stock 4.1:1 diff gears are just fine for now.