This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
the sexiest part of this portion of the build (besides the 14 bolt itself) is the black paint 
Glad to see it worked out
clint
Glad to see it worked out
clint
Mike,
Gotta say, that axle looks fantastic. It's not nearly as.... Cumbersome as I thought it would be. Because of the diff size, I would have thought it would kill the ground clearance.
Looks great man. Nice work!
Gotta say, that axle looks fantastic. It's not nearly as.... Cumbersome as I thought it would be. Because of the diff size, I would have thought it would kill the ground clearance.
Looks great man. Nice work!
- Thread starter
- #1,724
Gracias. I should have done some diff to ground measurements to see what I ended up with. I don't think I lost much, probably just a little due to the trim job. I'll have to do some comparisons with Clint's rig to get some numbers to play with.
- Thread starter
- #1,725
Update
I checked wheel bearing play on the front, tightened the passenger side and broke another inner tab off the tab washers that go in between the lock nuts. Repeating this again I finally used two stacked on each other and was able to get decent torque on that outer nut. I really like the way my rear hubs set up on the 14bolt since for some reason I'm having challenges getting those front nuts to accept enough torque without shearing off the inner tab on that washer. Anyways, I also painted my tie rod and checked bolts on the front end. With stuff squared away on the front end I put on the tires and dropped her on the ground. Now was time to work on the rear drive shaft.
I had a couple of plans and configurations but following is what I finally did. I used a yoke and slip from the stepvan stuff and somehow adapt that to a toyota DC joint (also commonly referred as a CV joint). I was fortunate to have a neighbor who had driveline troubles at one time and grabbed a toyota DC (I think it's from a mini). It was just sitting in his shop and since I've helped him work on his truck he gave it to me. So now all I had to do was get the slip and the DC joined with some kind of tube. The reason this was challenging is because they are different sizes and combinations of stepping up tube sizes wasn't going to work. I ran around to a couple driveline shops and ended up with what he called a bushing that could be milled to slide on the toyota DC to adapt to the tube size of the GM slip. I grabbed that and started tracking down some place to get it milled since the driveline shop was too busy. I went to 6 different places and I got a variety of responses like "we're busy", "we don't do that", "I would but my belt is broken", and "no I don't know anyone else that could do that". I gave up that day and went home to do other stuff. My
said she'd call a few places and found a guy. I then talked to a friend at work who's dad has a mill so he took it over the weekend but that didn't work out. Picked up my bushing Monday night with only the next day to get it done. I called a few places and ended up going to the guy my had talked to. I expected it to be some messy place with some old guy that squints when he talks and is missing teeth but was completely surprised and highly impressed when I walked in to find $$$ equipment and a clean strong figured guy that could make anything you want! Took him 15 mins right then and he took all the cash I had, a whooping $18! If I have other stuff to machine I'll be going back to him. City Machine out in Oregon City for those locals who are interested. I grabbed some fluids on the way home and jumped on the day.
This is the toyota DC and the bushing now machined that adapts this to the GM slip n' yoke tube size.
Got my measurements, prepped my parts, cut my tube (.090 wall) and fit it together. I was pretty meticulous about lining it up just right, spacing just right, measuring multiple times to get it right but used a level to get the joints in phase. This is the DC.
Put the slip in the tube and the yoke on the slip and matched the DC's level.
Tacked, rechecked and welded it all together. I made some alignment marks on the slip and yoke that I could paint over and still see to make sure I got it back in the right spot whenever I have to separate parts.
When I was at the the driveline place they hand tested the DC and confirmed it was in good shape and I picked up a sealed Spicer 1350 joint from them. I now put that in the yoke and painted the whole thing. I have not balanced it yet. $35 for the bushing, $35 for the joint, and $18 for the machining, all other parts I had or got free = $88 total for a DC rear drive shaft that goes from my toyota splitcase to the 14bolt.
While the paint was drying I started in on other stuff. I had previously resealed the diff three times for various reasons and was ready to fill it up. Half way through the fill I noticed it dripping. With minimum time left I was devastated. I figured I'd have to reseal it again. I took a break and when I came back to actually look at it I noticed it was coming from the lower bolt that I had added back in due to my trim job. I was so happy to find out that all I needed was a sealing washer around that bolt and that stopped the leak!! So now I've got a drain hole.
With this being a mini DC I believe, I had to change the bolt pattern on my tcase flange which also meant the bolt pattern on that reluctor ring piece I'm using to get a speed signal for the tranny controller. Used the DC as the guide and got that back together. Run-out on the reluctor ring is not enough to cause reading issues for the sensor and the signal is good so that was a success.
I have convinced myself that ubolts to hold the ujoint to the yoke are far superior to straps so I had previously drilled out the yoke threads and picked up some ubolts. The ubolts aren't long enough or you could say the yoke holes are too deep to get nuts on the ubolts. Instead of thinking I just starting cutting and felt like I probably compromised the yoke on the 14bolt; however, with a wheeling trip and stints up to 80mph on the freeway there has been no issue with the yoke so I'm not feeling as bad about it anymore. If it does happen to break on the street the shaft will drag instead of dig with the way it's set up.
I picked up some spark plug wire guides at autozone to help keep the long brake line and vent tube out of harms way. I didn't intend to drill all the way through the housing for the screw to fasten that bracket but that's what I did and of course gear oil can find it's way out so I'll have to come back to this one.
Protected the driver side brake line and zip tied it up for now. Planning on some kind of additional guide once the wrap brackets are welded on.
I quickly slapped some paint on the rest of the tubes and diff cover but plan to come back and finish the rest after the wrap brackets are welded on. Bolted up the drive shaft and drove it around the yard.
I took it on the street for a test just to make sure I could drive it to work the next day. Well... the rear brakes were dragging so I had to park it and figure that out after work the next day. I need to upload some more pics so I'll continue once I've got those hosted.
I checked wheel bearing play on the front, tightened the passenger side and broke another inner tab off the tab washers that go in between the lock nuts. Repeating this again I finally used two stacked on each other and was able to get decent torque on that outer nut. I really like the way my rear hubs set up on the 14bolt since for some reason I'm having challenges getting those front nuts to accept enough torque without shearing off the inner tab on that washer. Anyways, I also painted my tie rod and checked bolts on the front end. With stuff squared away on the front end I put on the tires and dropped her on the ground. Now was time to work on the rear drive shaft.
I had a couple of plans and configurations but following is what I finally did. I used a yoke and slip from the stepvan stuff and somehow adapt that to a toyota DC joint (also commonly referred as a CV joint). I was fortunate to have a neighbor who had driveline troubles at one time and grabbed a toyota DC (I think it's from a mini). It was just sitting in his shop and since I've helped him work on his truck he gave it to me. So now all I had to do was get the slip and the DC joined with some kind of tube. The reason this was challenging is because they are different sizes and combinations of stepping up tube sizes wasn't going to work. I ran around to a couple driveline shops and ended up with what he called a bushing that could be milled to slide on the toyota DC to adapt to the tube size of the GM slip. I grabbed that and started tracking down some place to get it milled since the driveline shop was too busy. I went to 6 different places and I got a variety of responses like "we're busy", "we don't do that", "I would but my belt is broken", and "no I don't know anyone else that could do that". I gave up that day and went home to do other stuff. My
said she'd call a few places and found a guy. I then talked to a friend at work who's dad has a mill so he took it over the weekend but that didn't work out. Picked up my bushing Monday night with only the next day to get it done. I called a few places and ended up going to the guy my had talked to. I expected it to be some messy place with some old guy that squints when he talks and is missing teeth but was completely surprised and highly impressed when I walked in to find $$$ equipment and a clean strong figured guy that could make anything you want! Took him 15 mins right then and he took all the cash I had, a whooping $18! If I have other stuff to machine I'll be going back to him. City Machine out in Oregon City for those locals who are interested. I grabbed some fluids on the way home and jumped on the day. This is the toyota DC and the bushing now machined that adapts this to the GM slip n' yoke tube size.
Got my measurements, prepped my parts, cut my tube (.090 wall) and fit it together. I was pretty meticulous about lining it up just right, spacing just right, measuring multiple times to get it right but used a level to get the joints in phase. This is the DC.
Put the slip in the tube and the yoke on the slip and matched the DC's level.
Tacked, rechecked and welded it all together. I made some alignment marks on the slip and yoke that I could paint over and still see to make sure I got it back in the right spot whenever I have to separate parts.
When I was at the the driveline place they hand tested the DC and confirmed it was in good shape and I picked up a sealed Spicer 1350 joint from them. I now put that in the yoke and painted the whole thing. I have not balanced it yet. $35 for the bushing, $35 for the joint, and $18 for the machining, all other parts I had or got free = $88 total for a DC rear drive shaft that goes from my toyota splitcase to the 14bolt.
While the paint was drying I started in on other stuff. I had previously resealed the diff three times for various reasons and was ready to fill it up. Half way through the fill I noticed it dripping. With minimum time left I was devastated. I figured I'd have to reseal it again. I took a break and when I came back to actually look at it I noticed it was coming from the lower bolt that I had added back in due to my trim job. I was so happy to find out that all I needed was a sealing washer around that bolt and that stopped the leak!! So now I've got a drain hole
.With this being a mini DC I believe, I had to change the bolt pattern on my tcase flange which also meant the bolt pattern on that reluctor ring piece I'm using to get a speed signal for the tranny controller. Used the DC as the guide and got that back together. Run-out on the reluctor ring is not enough to cause reading issues for the sensor and the signal is good so that was a success.
I have convinced myself that ubolts to hold the ujoint to the yoke are far superior to straps so I had previously drilled out the yoke threads and picked up some ubolts. The ubolts aren't long enough or you could say the yoke holes are too deep to get nuts on the ubolts. Instead of thinking I just starting cutting and felt like I probably compromised the yoke on the 14bolt; however, with a wheeling trip and stints up to 80mph on the freeway there has been no issue with the yoke so I'm not feeling as bad about it anymore. If it does happen to break on the street the shaft will drag instead of dig with the way it's set up.
I picked up some spark plug wire guides at autozone to help keep the long brake line and vent tube out of harms way. I didn't intend to drill all the way through the housing for the screw to fasten that bracket but that's what I did and of course gear oil can find it's way out so I'll have to come back to this one.
Protected the driver side brake line and zip tied it up for now. Planning on some kind of additional guide once the wrap brackets are welded on.
I quickly slapped some paint on the rest of the tubes and diff cover but plan to come back and finish the rest after the wrap brackets are welded on. Bolted up the drive shaft and drove it around the yard.
I took it on the street for a test just to make sure I could drive it to work the next day. Well... the rear brakes were dragging so I had to park it and figure that out after work the next day. I need to upload some more pics so I'll continue once I've got those hosted.
Last edited:
No more broken shafts for mike!
Beautiful Mike! Great find on the machine shop...
How many SF shaft did you break?
I got a brother with a SF and 37's, he is only running a turbo 2h but I still worry about them.
I got a brother with a SF and 37's, he is only running a turbo 2h but I still worry about them.
small hijack Mike ..
I broke 2 SF rears in Tencha .. chained, locked turboed on 37" then move to PP SF axles and then to 40" and they are still holding nice . .
- Thread starter
- #1,730
I actually never broke any. I stepped up to the polys before my rubicon trip 2 years ago but found I had a set from the bad batch where the bearing surface wasn't hardened correctly and allowed wear just last year. I really was impressed with the cruiser axle but at the same time I had that 14bolt just sitting in the corner of the shop staring at me whenever I'd walk in. I was a little worried with the torque my motor makes at such a low rpm and the shock loading that could produce although I think having an auto has really help cushion the blow on the components. Then Freds40 offset his 14bolt (may have been another that came up with it but that's the first I read about it) in a way that seemed plausable for a backyard fabricator. So it was just a matter of time before it found it's way under my rig. I do like the idea of not having to worry about it since guys with bigger tires and more power are getting reliable results. This is probably more important to us who want to drive to the trail, wheel, and then drive home.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2010
- Threads
- 44
- Messages
- 2,148
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
- Website
- www.kindredspiritscsg.com
The other nice thing about running a 14 bolt is that if you do manage to break a shaft you can run to any junkyard in America and grab one for 50$ or less.
You are running two short shafts right?
You are running two short shafts right?
- Thread starter
- #1,733
Nope, I'm running the same shafts just have them flipped. With the appropriate length cut on the tubes of each side and then swapping those the same axles fit just opposite sides. With this 14bolt being a C&C style I wanted to keep the 63" wms but wanted the differential offset to keep my current setup.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #1,734
I think having a level spot just makes the math easier. That way you don't have to figure in the base angle and remember to add or subtract stuff since math with zero is pretty easy
.
Just went through your thread and it looks fantastic. Couple of questions (and I apologize if they were already answered and I missed them somewhere):
1. Watching your video, the noise on the outside sounds okay but whats it like in the cabin? Any reverberation and how is the vibration?
2. Could stock (upgraded shafts, of course) axles handle the 4BT?
1. Watching your video, the noise on the outside sounds okay but whats it like in the cabin? Any reverberation and how is the vibration?
2. Could stock (upgraded shafts, of course) axles handle the 4BT?
- Thread starter
- #1,736
1. If the noise outside is OK for you the noise inside is less. I do think sound deadening should be budgeted in for a diesel swap. A couple other things will affect noise like what kind of muffler used, the tune on your injection pump (more power usually = more noise), even the kind of fuel used (bio diesel is a little quieter), and a cold engine vs a warm one. Up at speed a combination of tire noise, engine noise and wind noise make conversations louder, but having ridden in a buddy's 60 that was lifted running the 2F it wasn't quiet either. Any holes in the firewall will leak noise and the shifter boots also allow sound to penetrate. Road wise these truck weren't quiet in the first place. I'd associate reverberation with sound deadening meaning a sheet a metal won't reverberate with sound deadening applied as it will dampen the frequency. Since I did that at the beginning I don't get any reverberation in the cab. Even running open exhaust I don't have droning in the cab but that's more of a factor of where I'm dumping my exhaust. At the end of this video is a decent example of what it sounds like inside. Wheeling in Warrington OR 9-08 - YouTube It's a little louder now since I've done some tuning for more power.
For vibs that also depends on tune and how you have it mounted. I get vibs when I'm at a stop with the tranny in drive and the rpms down low (<750). Now if I put it in neutral the vibs go away. The 4bt really doesn't vib like others make it out to; set up has more control over that.
2. Stock shafts: Disclaimer would be tire size and tune on the 4bt. For my experience it's been with 35-38s and from est. 150-195hp est.(340-400ftlbs.) in front of an auto tranny (absorbs some of the shock loading). I like to wheel but don't like to beat on my stuff.
Drive shafts. Yes these hold up just fine even with more power like me.
Rear axle shafts. These held up fine too along with the polys I upgraded to
Front axle shafts. Never took a chance and upgraded to long's super set right at the beginning. With my intent to wheel and have a front locker it's been proven this needs upgrading with the 2f and bigger tires.
The axle housings haven't given me any grief. Overall I've been impressed with cruiser stuff and am glad I used this as my platform. Multipurpose vehicles are always a balance between compromises.
Boots,
I'm not done with my build yet, but you have got me thinking about doing the 14 bolt down the road. I really like the piece of mind, but was more concerned with the size of the pumpkin. But seeing yours... Doesn't look too bad.
I did blow a rear SF coming out of rubicon... When I was back on the road?!?! The c clip grove gave way. The axle itself was fine. However, we were at loon lake dam when it decided to go. Scared me to think about what might have happened if it were on the hwy at speed.
I'm not done with my build yet, but you have got me thinking about doing the 14 bolt down the road. I really like the piece of mind, but was more concerned with the size of the pumpkin. But seeing yours... Doesn't look too bad.
I did blow a rear SF coming out of rubicon... When I was back on the road?!?! The c clip grove gave way. The axle itself was fine. However, we were at loon lake dam when it decided to go. Scared me to think about what might have happened if it were on the hwy at speed.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Looking good, Mike. What did you do for an E-brake? This has been the 1 issue holding me back on the 14bolt.
On the noise thing, at idle, it is pretty loud. Earth mover loud. That is just the nature of the beast. At least I remember having to ask you to shut off the truck so we could have a drivers meeting at Rubicon!
Keep the updates coming.
On the noise thing, at idle, it is pretty loud. Earth mover loud. That is just the nature of the beast. At least I remember having to ask you to shut off the truck so we could have a drivers meeting at Rubicon!
Keep the updates coming.
- Thread starter
- #1,739
Just using the line lock that I set up for the old axle since I had converted that to discs. For holding power it's better than a mechanical brake and it meets TLCA requirements but isn't a true emergency brake. I had started planning on running a tcase brake before I set up the line lock but once I dialed the lock in I've been happy with it so I haven't gone back to working out that set up. I know there are other calipers that have mechanics like the eldorado calipers like some nissan stuff but I never went to the JY to look for any. There's got to be more modern stuff that could work.
Drivers meeting was in the morning so the engine was cold. It's louder than when it's warm and on the trail slow going/light load takes a little while to warm up. I was running more advance back then and that makes the IP louder. With this fancy kit I'm running now I was able to drop the timing some but the VE pump has an advance timing feature for cold starts thus making more noise. Once it warms up it's quieter, I'm not talking 5 dBs or anything but it isn't the same level. It's interesting because I can hear it when I'm on the road drop in level once the advance kicks off (KSB circuit).
At our TLCA club event last month there was a full sized Bronco that had a 4bt in it. I seriously thought it was a Mercedes diesel because it was really quiet for a cummins. I never got a chance to hook up later to check under the hood to see if it was an inline pump or chat with him to see what power level he was running but it was the quietest 4bt I've heard!
Hoping we get a chance to wheel with you guys in 2012. Good memories. Maybe for Keith's maiden voyage with Matti.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #1,740
That's the project mind! It never really stops even when you're "done" with your rig. We need future plans/projects to keep us going whether it's on the truck or house or etc. You bring a good point about another reason I wanted to swap, and that's going to a full floater to gain the advantages of a full floater.