Failed emissions, poor idle, high in hydro carbons, temp spikes (1 Viewer)

[BHillteq]

Well, I finally bought my dream car! 1988 FJ62. She's a beaut, but she needs some love. I live in Salt Lake and I'm having a heck of time getting it to pass our super strict emissions. I know this is a very common occurrence for Cruiser owners, and I've used the nifty search tool quite extensively, but I'd like a little rebuttal. She idles rough, right below 500. We did new plugs and wires, changed the oil, ran an injector cleaner through it, and it's not much better. My question is, where should I begin? I'm thinking valve adjustment first, then a leakdown to make sure I don't have blow by or worse, and to affirm the internals are solid. It runs great at freeway speeds (for a slow old Cruiser) it's just at idle that it struggles. The Hydrocarbons were like 600 or something, at idle. The tech who did the plugs said the EGR was functioning properly, and he suggested removing the injectors and having them cleaned by a local shop. Should I do that before valve adjustment? Anywho, I'd love some advice! Thanks in advance! Here she is:

 

[Trapper50cal]

I hate to say it (cuz $$$), but some of this sounds like a clogged/over-the-hill catalytic converter.

 

[Trapper50cal]

whoops....dupe

 

[BHillteq]

I hate to say it (cuz $$$), but some of this sounds like a clogged/over-the-hill catalytic converter.

It smells absolutely putrid out of the exhaust pipe, so you're probably not wrong on that one. But would that make it miss and idle poorly, as well as be high on just hydro carbons? Literally every other parameter passed.

 

[Trapper50cal]

It can cause excess back pressure, and I THINK that can effect idle...
Does it smell like sulfur? (rotten eggs)

 

[Seth S]

As its a new to you machine it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the timing, check/adjust the valves. maybe do a compression test and leak down if warranted. A quick google for "what causes high HC at idle" yields:

Lean Fuel Mixture - Any condition which will cause unmetered air to enter the intake manifold, and ultimately the combustion chambers, will cause high hydrocarbons(HC). ... Such faults as vacuum leaks and gasket leaks will cause lean fuel/air mixtures. Broken, disconnected or misrouted vacuum hoses will do the same.

I am not sure how picky the fuel injection on a 62 is but on newer cars a lazy or bad O2 sensor can cause fuel issues as well and a bad O2 sensor can even lead to a clogged cat.

again I'm not sure on the 62 but I have seen intake/vacuum leaks do all sorts of strange things to idle and driveability.

 

[Seth S]

Often smell that rotten egg smell when following even a modern car up a hill where the EFI is dumping extra fuel into the engine and driving up the rich exhaust. So again O2 sensor, Fuel pressure regulator, vacuum leaks, clogged cat....all things that can cause/contribute.

 

[BHillteq]

Often smell that rotten egg smell when following even a modern car up a hill where the EFI is dumping extra fuel into the engine and driving up the rich exhaust. So again O2 sensor, Fuel pressure regulator, vacuum leaks, clogged cat....all things that can cause/contribute.

I'm sure it's not ONE specific thing that's causing this. I was kind of under the impression that it's multiple factors that are contributing to this. But I'm a super thorough person, and I hate coming into a new car with absolutely no idea what's been done to it. So I'm just trying to piece through all of these potential issues and hope that I come out on the other side with a happy Cruiser. Would the fuel pressure regulator make it run rich? And idle rough? It doesn't cut out at cruising speeds, my issues are exclusive to idling. At least they feel like they are.

 

[Seth S]

I'd just go through one thing at a time. Check the valves, check the timing, cover your bases etc. Then look for intake leaks and work your way from simple and easy towards more complicated.

 

[BHillteq]

I'd just go through one thing at a time. Check the valves, check the timing, cover your bases etc. Then look for intake leaks and work your way from simple and easy towards more complicated.

Thanks, I'll let you know what I find!

 

[SteveH]

New spark plugs, air filter, oil change, compression test (report back here), vacuum test (how many inches of manifold vacuum at idle). Set the timing per the FSM - this can affect both curb idle and emissions. Critically - check all the air hoses between your air filter and the manifold - these crack due to too much flexing by careless owners and lube shops.

 

[Pin_Head]

HC comes primarily from misfiring. Is it failing at idle or at 2,500RPM? If it is failing at idle, a manifold vacuum leak may be the culprit, like a leaky gasket or EGR valve stuck open.

If it is failing at high speed, it could also be a bad / misadjusted exhaust valve. Adjust them and do a compression test.

It is not likely a leaking injector. Running rich causes CO, which you don’t have.

The catalyst is not designed to deal with that high of HC. It might be part of the solution, but is not likely the problem.

 

[BHillteq]

Well, there have been some recent developments. Maybe they're unrelated, or they're the direct cause. We took it up to Idaho today to see the fam, and it ran great. It's about a 100 miles up there. Engine temp was normal and everything seemed good. We were there for like 3 hours, and then headed back. 20 minutes into the drive back, engine temp went up over half for a sec, then came right back down. It did this 3 or 4 times. None of them while I was climbing hills or accelerating, and the last time it went up and touched the red. I backed off the throttle, and it went right back down. Checked the overflow when we got home, and it was empty. Three weeks ago when we changed the oil, we filled it. Do I have a leak in my head gasket, which is causing the idle issues, and the high HC's?? It runs great at cruising speeds, and is not blowing smoke. It does at idle when the engine is cold, but I thought that was due to the lower Temps outside, and the unburnt fuel. Help?

 

[TexasBlue]

Is oil looking milky white?

Take dip stick out of hot engine just turned off and place oil on exhaust. If it boils or bubbles most likely water/coolant in oil.

Hope that is not found. Good luck

 

[BHillteq]

Is oil looking milky white?

Take dip stick out of hot engine just turned off and place oil on exhaust. If it boils or bubbles most likely water/coolant in oil.

Hope that is not found. Good luck

Oil looks clean, popped the oil cap and everything looked fine in there, and no bubbles in the radiator.

 

[Trapper50cal]

Sounds like a sticky thermostat for the temp anomalies and it sounds like
it mat be loosing coolant but it could also be the fact that it wasn't completely
filled and drew from the overflow to fill air bubbles...air bubbles that could
have been around the temp sensor.

Check to see if it'll take more coolant to determine if it's loosing it...
any wetness on the timing gear cover?

 

[BHillteq]

Sounds like a sticky thermostat for the temp anomalies and it sounds like
it mat be loosing coolant but it could also be the fact that it wasn't completely
filled and drew from the overflow to fill air bubbles...air bubbles that could
have been around the temp sensor.

Check to see if it'll take more coolant to determine if it's loosing it...
any wetness on the timing gear cover?

I wondered about the t-stat, nothing is wet on the front of the engine. After it cooled off I popped the cap to the radiator and it was all the way to the top. And the coloring is normal, as well. On our drive up we had the air on cooler, and on the way back we turned it to warmer, maybe there was air in the system that was getting trapped in the heater core? And when I started it there weren't any bubbles coming out of the radiator

 

[BHillteq]

It was just crazy how the heat would rise then quickly come back down to normal and stay that way for a while, then come back up, and quickly drop again. Sounds like air in the system, right?

 

[Trapper50cal]

yeah, or faulty reading.

That coolant in the overflow went somewhere (but check for cracks in that

Did the turning on of the heater and the temp variations coincide in anyway?

A sticky t-stat isn't ruled out yet though.

 

[BHillteq]

On our trip up the heater was pretty much in the middle, and then on all the way hot and eventually backed down to the middle on the way back. And we didn't touch it after that. I doubt that was related, honestly. Maybe I have some blockage in the radiator? I'm just hoping this is unrelated to my original issues of rough idling and failed emissions. I'm really thinking that I have a blown head gasket and it's leaking coolant directly into the cylinder. That's where the missing coolant must be going. Should I do a leak down test, first?