That is
That is the fix, my shaft is only a few weeks old........
Drive shafts with 4" Ironman lift
- Thread starter ceby
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Yes that is what Kurtis told me but the joints are not the only parts involved. However, I have never heard any complaints about his products.
- Thread starter
- #63
Well I dropped the shaft off at the local driveline shop. He going to tear it down and rebuild it using the old shaft as long as the rest of it looks good. If he just installs a completely new 1310 CV head assembly he said it will be $295 with balance. He sources his Toyota flanges from powertrain industries. We got on the subject of Tatton shafts and he had nothing good to say about them. He received a few of them all at once to repair that were off of Broncos. Who knows, maybe just an isolated incidences. Said the workmanship was really poor quality, something to do with welds and wrong angles. Anyway, we will see what I get back from him.
Before I got into the Tacoma shaft bussibess I had to Spicer built shafts. Neither on lasted more that 20k miles. This was back when I as dailiey driving the truck for service work .My first Tacoma shaft is still going .
Not saying theses new shafts are the same but I'd like to see a few of them last more than 20k miles before jumping on any band wagon.
It's never been about strength with me, it has always been longevity
Not saying theses new shafts are the same but I'd like to see a few of them last more than 20k miles before jumping on any band wagon.
It's never been about strength with me, it has always been longevity
Cruisin'
Out in the shop, building something cool!
I've installed several Ironman 4" kits, and I've found that the castor plates they supply with the 4" lift provide too much correction. They are 5deg. The Slee or Metal Tech plates (or the ones I have made) are better with a 4" lift, they're all around 3.25deg - 3.5deg I believe. Ironman uses the same plate with the 4" lift and the 6" lift. Looking at your pic of the front pinion it appears that your pinion is a bit low (ie. too much correction), and a set of plates with about 3.5 deg correction will set you up at about 0deg +/- 1deg. This will put you right in the good range for a DC shaft, and it should run smooth. Getting the correction down to about 3.5deg will also help a few other things like less arc in the front springs and better clearance between the tie rod and radius arms. If you've got a couple degrees operating angle at the front pinion, even a DC shaft won't fix the vibes. You need to get that angle very close to 0deg.
I used a 1st Gen Tacoma 4wd shaft for my DC.
I went through all these issues when I put my lift in, and came up with the above for castor correction, run a DC shaft, kept full time 4wd, and it has been running smooth for 60k miles.
BTW, the castor plates is the only part of the Ironman lift I didn't like. I've been super happy with all the other components.
I used a 1st Gen Tacoma 4wd shaft for my DC.
I went through all these issues when I put my lift in, and came up with the above for castor correction, run a DC shaft, kept full time 4wd, and it has been running smooth for 60k miles.
BTW, the castor plates is the only part of the Ironman lift I didn't like. I've been super happy with all the other components.
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- Thread starter
- #66
This is great! I've been hoping to hear from someone who has experience with these lifts. I figured I had something to do with those caster plates, measuring my angles like I stated before I have like you had just said...about 5°. I'm confused about one thing though, if the front pinion needs to point towards a transfer case then why use caster correction plates at all? Have you ever installed a lift without the plates? Or does the pinion angle point to high at that point?
my caster plates align for a DC shaft and rotate the axle 7*, not sure how you are getting it aligned at half that.
Cruisin'
Out in the shop, building something cool!
Without some castor correction the pinion would be high, and you would have no correction for the steering and the truck would be all over the road.
Cruisin'
Out in the shop, building something cool!
***Aha! I figured out why I'm at half your number... I was basing that angle on using the rear hole as the axis, not the centreline of the axle which would give double the number. It appears we're on the same page.
For sure though the Ironman plates rotate the axle too much for a 4" lift.
- Thread starter
- #70
OK everybody, I got my driveshaft back yesterday. They were able to use the old driveshaft and added a 1310 CV joint to it. I went ahead and have them balance the rear shaft as well just because I still had that small vibration in the rear at higher speeds. As many others have described before me, the flange on the CV joint is definitely a lot thicker than OEM flange. But once installed and completely tighten down, the nuts are flush with the heads of the studs, just had to leave the lock washers off and put Loctite on them. So first thing I did was install the rear driveshaft by itself, took it out for a drive, and no more vibration in the rear. Well almost none, I get the slightest, and I mean slightest vibration for just a second when letting off the throttle at higher speeds but it immediately goes away. I figure some adjustable upper control arms and some fine-tuning will fix this. Next installed the front driveshaft, fingers crossed, test drove and no more vibrations! So thrilled.... The only thing I hear now is a winding up and down in the front in relation with the speed I'm going whenever I am accelerating, assuming it's in the front axle or t-case. It does not make the sound at all when you let off the throttle, only if accelerating. I don't recall the noise ever being there with the previous driveshaft in the front, anyone experience this with the CV shaft? Aside from that I am ecstatic about the progress I've had with the decisions I've made. Hopefully this helps others in the future. Here is a picture of my driveshafts done by Carolina Driveline in Spartanburg SC.
I am surprise that the nuts at the T-case end are even flush. My driveline shop machined that flange thickness down a bit.
Glad the issue is resolved and those shafts look like the shop takes pride in their work.
Glad the issue is resolved and those shafts look like the shop takes pride in their work.
That is my experience with Spicer and Naepco also when they are running with any angle to them They last fine running flat.
Did you try clocking the front driveshaft 90 deg? The front 80 is the only shaft I've seen that is clocked 90 degrees out of phase from the factory.
In some instances if a vibration occurs after a lift, clocking it in phase cures this. I know it's late but I just came across this thread.
One issue to check before hitting the trails is to droop the suspension completely and check for possible bind at the D/C joint.
The Spicer units have less articulation than the Toyota units. The 1310 is better than the 1350. The 1350 is simply terrible at about 15ish degrees.
The best Spicer unit is built from 1350 ends, a 1310 center and the 1330 hybrid universals.
The cross section is a 1350 in two directions and a1310 in the other. It's a hybrid that some builders refer to as a high angle D/C.
If you do find that the D/C is binding at all under droop you can take a die grinder and relieve the contact points. You can get into the high twenties
of angle with a little attention
- Thread starter
- #73
I will definitely check this out before I go wheeling. thanks
Ceby, how much did modifying the front shaft and balancing the rear shaft cost? I'm in Raleigh NC so not far away.
- Thread starter
- #75
$350 for everything
- Thread starter
- #76
$350
Ceby, I went the same path as Jason (Cruisin'). We basically have the same suspension details including his custom caster correction plates, with the exception that I have 1.1 inch spring spacers as well, bringing my lift to 5.1 inches.
I too was having the exact same vibration issues you were talking about - front shaft causing 90% vibration around 30mph, rear shaft causing slight 10% vibration. On Jason's recommendation I went with the first gen 4x4 shaft DC end, that a driveline place welded to my stock front driveshaft. The vibration actually got worse after that. This was due to the DC joint SLIGHTLY nicking the edge of the transmission pan seam. I clearanced the seam about 2mm and immediately the vibration went away.
I'm still left with a slight vibration from the rear (or maybe something else)? Tempted to have the rear shaft balanced, even though it's still stock. All u-joints are fresh (and OEM). First I'm going to remove the spring spacers to see if they make a difference at all.
FWIW, I too have the same "whining" noise when on throttle, mostly part throttle, after the DC shaft was put in. NO idea why, can't figure it out. Been like that for a couple years now.
PS. yes I know I need to pressure wash the underside of my truck
I too was having the exact same vibration issues you were talking about - front shaft causing 90% vibration around 30mph, rear shaft causing slight 10% vibration. On Jason's recommendation I went with the first gen 4x4 shaft DC end, that a driveline place welded to my stock front driveshaft. The vibration actually got worse after that. This was due to the DC joint SLIGHTLY nicking the edge of the transmission pan seam. I clearanced the seam about 2mm and immediately the vibration went away.
I'm still left with a slight vibration from the rear (or maybe something else)? Tempted to have the rear shaft balanced, even though it's still stock. All u-joints are fresh (and OEM). First I'm going to remove the spring spacers to see if they make a difference at all.
FWIW, I too have the same "whining" noise when on throttle, mostly part throttle, after the DC shaft was put in. NO idea why, can't figure it out. Been like that for a couple years now.
PS. yes I know I need to pressure wash the underside of my truck
- Thread starter
- #78
I would definitely get the rear shaft balanced, especially after having new joints put in. It did help my rear vibration a little. My next move is to recheck the operating angles again and possibly install adjustable upper control arms in the rear if needed and new 3.5* caster correction plates in the front if I'm not at 0* on the front pinion.Ceby, I went the same path as Jason (Cruisin'). We basically have the same suspension details including his custom caster correction plates, with the exception that I have 1.1 inch spring spacers as well, bringing my lift to 5.1 inches.
I too was having the exact same vibration issues you were talking about - front shaft causing 90% vibration around 30mph, rear shaft causing slight 10% vibration. On Jason's recommendation I went with the first gen 4x4 shaft DC end, that a driveline place welded to my stock front driveshaft. The vibration actually got worse after that. This was due to the DC joint SLIGHTLY nicking the edge of the transmission pan seam. I clearanced the seam about 2mm and immediately the vibration went away.
I'm still left with a slight vibration from the rear (or maybe something else)? Tempted to have the rear shaft balanced, even though it's still stock. All u-joints are fresh (and OEM). First I'm going to remove the spring spacers to see if they make a difference at all.
FWIW, I too have the same "whining" noise when on throttle, mostly part throttle, after the DC shaft was put in. NO idea why, can't figure it out. Been like that for a couple years now.
PS. yes I know I need to pressure wash the underside of my truck
Oh, that's right.. Jason made me extended LCAs as well. 
I realize that balancing a DS is an instant gratification kind of thing around here but I think it maybe an unnecessary thing to to. DS's don't get unbalanced simply by lifting a rig or replacing the UJs with OEM UJ's, I can't speak for non OEM UJs. The only way to unbalance a DS is typically by hitting on a rock, bending it, candy striping it, nicking, etc. Think about it, your rig was totally smooth before you started to monkey with the suspension so it stands to reason that it's probably fine after you lifted it.
After the lift, our DS's are now operating at different angles and your headache starts. I wish more folks would measure their DS angles (flanges, yokes, etc) BEFORE the lift and then try to re-achieve the same angles after the lift. We need to be objective about all this, rather than using our senses to determine seat of the pants vibration feedback.
Anyway, just my .02 cents worth!! Happy Friday everyone.
After the lift, our DS's are now operating at different angles and your headache starts. I wish more folks would measure their DS angles (flanges, yokes, etc) BEFORE the lift and then try to re-achieve the same angles after the lift. We need to be objective about all this, rather than using our senses to determine seat of the pants vibration feedback.
Anyway, just my .02 cents worth!! Happy Friday everyone.