dmaddox's 1981 BJ42 restoration and information thread!

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bj40green said:
@ Tom, I'm still waiting for this answer from Bandit.
@ Dallas, Did you change back the wiring on the alt to the previous situation (before the fuse blew)?
When you had the engine running did it charge? I saw in your post from yesterday that the Batteries showed 26.4V, which means that the "engine" fuse is OK. This fuse feeds the VR.

EDIT: I just compared the pic of Dallas in posting #410 with the pic of Bandit in posting 462. The wiring colors and positions are the same on both. Now we need the confirmation which prong is E/ground from Bandit.
Maybe Bandit can make a picture of the connector where we can see both sides of the wiring.

Rudi
Click to expand...

He he he.

I realise now that I was way too hasty in thinking Bandit's pic supports my view.

I would like Bandit to confirm that his loom wires connect like this (which is how I'm advising Dallas to connect his alternator at this point in time):

GreenEarth.webp

If they don't, I'll promise I won't cry. (Well, maybe I'll have a hard time stopping myself ... to be truthful.)

:beer::beer:
GreenEarth.webp
 
Last two hours:

1. Here is what I have wired on my Alternator. Thick W/L to the B post. I have my WG to the GREEN, the WB to the BLACK and the WL to the BLUE. My batteries (from cranking and bleeding the injectors) were down to 24.2 from about 25. That 2-3 minutes I had the 3B idling I tested the Voltage on the Batteries and it was 26.2 and climing I think 26.4 when I last checked. So, it appears the batteries are getting a charge from the ALT.

2. Don't laugh (especially Tom) because I KNOW we tested it, but I wanted to ENSURE that the green contact in the EDIC motor was ok. I totally disassembled the EDIC motor, cleaned it all up, inspected each contact (there was a LOT of hardened grease in there), I put fresh dielectric grease on each contact and the gear, inspected and cleaned the motor - and re-installed on my 3B and ran the same test as before and other than sounding a bit peppier and smoother - passes the test as before with flying colors and operates as expected.

I tried to disconnect the oil switch and the edic will STILL not move when in the ON position.

I am pointing my finger at the last culprit. THE RELAY.

Note that in my previously posted picture:

EDICRelay.jpg


That "spool of thread" looking thing that looks slightly roasted...guess what....it has IG labled next to it, which leads me further to believe this is a roasted RELAY. I guess the test is not sending the "D" position to the EDIC?

Heck...I guess if we all get something out of this....I have learned EVERY facet of this EDIC system, including the inner workings of the EDIC motor.

I have been upset all morning about this. If you guys knew me...you'd know I am a bit of a perfectionist, purist, and worry wart. I just want this to be "correct". I am sorry if we are repeating things and holding my hand along this process.

/deep breath.
 
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Just got home from thw worst f ours ever, wisdom teeth pulled out, and from my cover removal on the Alternator

Green is field
Balck is ground
Blue is regualtion

The top of the pyramid is green

I'll get a bitter picture in a few minutes
 
dmaddox said:
Last two hours:

1. Here is what I have wired on my Alternator. Thick W/L to the B post. I have my WG to the GREEN, the WB to the BLACK and the WL to the BLUE. My batteries (from cranking and bleeding the injectors) were down to 24.2 from about 25. That 2-3 minutes I had the 3B idling I tested the Voltage on the Batteries and it was 26.2 and climing I think 26.4 when I last checked. So, it appears the batteries are getting a charge from the ALT.

2. Don't laugh (especially Tom) because I KNOW we tested it, but I wanted to ENSURE that the green contact in the EDIC motor was ok. I totally disassembled the EDIC motor, cleaned it all up, inspected each contact (there was a LOT of hardened grease in there), I put fresh dielectric grease on each contact and the gear, inspected and cleaned the motor - and re-installed on my 3B and ran the same test as before and other than sounding a bit peppier and smoother - passes the test as before with flying colors and operates as expected.

I tried to disconnect the oil switch and the edic will STILL not move when in the ON position.

I am pointing my finger at the last culprit. THE RELAY.

Note that in my previously posted picture:

EDICRelay.jpg


That "spool of thread" looking thing that looks slightly roasted...guess what....it has IG labled next to it, which leads me further to believe this is a roasted RELAY. I guess the test is not sending the "D" position to the EDIC?

Heck...I guess if we all get something out of this....I have learned EVERY facet of this EDIC system, including the inner workings of the EDIC motor.

I have been upset all morning about this. If you guys knew me...you'd know I am a bit of a perfectionist, purist, and worry wart. I just want this to be "correct". I am sorry if we are repeating things and holding my hand along this process.

/deep breath.
Click to expand...

Dallas just got home and have been going back and re-looking at the pictures posted (since my phone dosent show them very well) and im going to agree with you on this picture that the spool of wire in question is bad. Im trying to think back to the electrical section of shop class but if I remember correctley that portion does mean its bad??????? bummer.



Bandit_guy said:
Just got home from thw worst f ours ever, wisdom teeth pulled out, and from my cover removal on the Alternator

I know how you feel.....that sucks!
Click to expand...
 
:crybaby::crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:

dmaddox said:
1. Here is what I have wired on my Alternator. Thick W/L to the B post. I have my WG to the GREEN, the WB to the BLACK and the WL to the BLUE. My batteries (from cranking and bleeding the injectors) were down to 24.2 from about 25. That 2-3 minutes I had the 3B idling I tested the Voltage on the Batteries and it was 26.2 and climing I think 26.4 when I last checked. So, it appears the batteries are getting a charge from the ALT.....
Click to expand...

Bandit_guy said:
... and from my cover removal on the Alternator
Green is field
Balck is ground
Blue is regualtion
The top of the pyramid is green
I'll get a bitter picture in a few minutes
Click to expand...

Sorry about the toothache Bandit.

Dallas, youself and Rudi have all proved me wrong about the alternator wiring. (Sh#t I can be stubborn at times!!!)

I concede DEFEAT!!!

It appears that this is what Dallas has and this is also how the factory wired Bandit's alternator:

BlackEarth.webp
Despite the FSM images suggesting otherwise (... to me at least).

...I am pointing my finger at the last culprit. THE RELAY.

Note that in my previously posted picture:

That "spool of thread" looking thing that looks slightly roasted...guess what....it has IG labled next to it, which leads me further to believe this is a roasted RELAY. I guess the test is not sending the "D" position to the EDIC?

Heck...I guess if we all get something out of this....I have learned EVERY facet of this EDIC system, including the inner workings of the EDIC motor.

I have been upset all morning about this. If you guys knew me...you'd know I am a bit of a perfectionist, purist, and worry wart. I just want this to be "correct". I am sorry if we are repeating things and holding my hand along this process.

/deep breath.
Click to expand...

I think you're right now in this too Dallas.

Tell you what ...... NEVER BEFORE .....on ih8mud have I found anyone so willing to go deep into their electrics as you are.

This has been great fun (and continues to be).

:beer:
BlackEarth.webp
 
Dallas:

I should have posted this a bit quicker, because I think it could have saved you some time. This is how the 12V works, but I believe the 24V is pretty much the same)

When you turn the key to START, the EDIC relay is getting power from the START system, instead of the ENGINE fuse. As soon as you release the key to the "run" position, the ENGINE fuse is what eventually provides power to the EDIC relay to then command the EDIC motor to the "run" position. The lesson to take away is that the EDIC relay is getting it's signal from two completely separate sources when the key is in start vs. run.

The EDIC relay also disregards the oil pressure switch for roughly 17 seconds after the key has been in the start position. If the oil pressure switch or wiring was causing you a problem, you would turn the key to start, and it would idle for 17 seconds before shutting down. Because yours is going straight to off, you have (as you now know) a problem in either the EDIC relay, or the "run" position wiring. You can safely rule out the oil pressure switch system as being the cultprit.

Looking at those pics, I suspect you do have a bad solenoid in there. I don't know if those are replaceable in the field, but that sure looks to be the likely problem from the pics I see.

Heck...I guess if we all get something out of this....I have learned EVERY facet of this EDIC system, including the inner workings of the EDIC motor.

I have been upset all morning about this. If you guys knew me...you'd know I am a bit of a perfectionist, purist, and worry wart. I just want this to be "correct". I am sorry if we are repeating things and holding my hand along this process.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right that you have learned all about your EDIC system. Not a half bad thing to understand, IMHO. On the plus side, you have now gotten to listen to it rattle away and make rather different noises than any of the F engines, right? It's an exciting sound, IMHO.

Dan
 
And the winner is................ just kidding folks, I'm glad that we solved this problem.
Bandit, thanks for confirming the wiring colors and lay out.
Dallas, Is it safe to say that the alt is charging? If so it means that the VR wiring is also OK.
Now back to the EDIC relay. My guess is that it is toast but... there is a slight chance that it is fixable, but don't get your hope up too high.
On the top and bottom of that relay you see very, very, very thin green wires.
That is the beginning and end of the coil/solenoid, they go down to the base of the relay and end up on a pin which is soldered in the print/circuit board.
Look if you can see if one of these wires is broken. Use a toothpick to touch them very softly.
I've no idea of your soldering skills but it may be easier to take the relay out.
If you have it out you can also do a continuity test. You can compare the reading with the other relay.

I keep my fingers crossed,

Rudi

Ps. If this relay is unfixable then a solution can be to buy a relay (which will be bigger), make extension wires and put that in. It will not look nice but it's a (temporarely) solution.
 
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DanS HJ-45 said:
...The EDIC relay also disregards the oil pressure switch for roughly 17 seconds after the key has been in the start position. ...Dan
Click to expand...

I remember Rockcrawler/Alex saying time delays get shorter as one component ages (which may have been a capacitor if my memory serves me correctly.)

(I'll try to dig up Alex's posts and add a link to whatever thread they appeared in here shortly.)

:cheers:

And Rudi .... With regard to Dallas's FCR, don't you think that the discolouring he points to on his operating-coil (connected his IG terminal) suggests that coil is damaged?

:beer: .....

Edit: Here's the link to Alex's thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...432-edic-relay-oil-pressure-timer-repair.html

PS. At the moment I don't think the time delay thing is important to Dallas. But it is definitely an interesting topic to me
 
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@ Tom, yes I think the relay is cooked, fried, nuked, gone but the discoloring doesn't mean that the damage is done in the core. Sometimes ........ anyway 99% chance it's gone.
And sorry I don't have an EDIC. I have the pull-the-knob-to-kill-the-engine set up.

So I was thinking.... why all the trouble trying to fix it with a only 5% or less chance. That brought me to the idea to (temporarely) add an external relay.
This pic is an idea of how to do it.

Dallas relay.webp

Go to your favorite auto parts shop, buy a 24V relay, make extension wires if it doesn't come with a pre wired socket, solder it in and ready! Glue, tape or whatever this external relay to something outside the box.
We (you) Dallas have to figure out if the relay is a single or double relay. My guess it's a plain single one.

How does this sounds?

Rudi
Dallas relay.webp
 
Hi Dallas,

Take the unit with you. Take it out of the metal base plate so you can see the back of the circuit board.
That "spool" thing is called a relay. Show it to the guy and hopefully he knows his stuff.
I think you have a 1 to a million chance that he has something that will fit directly. I keep my fingers crossed for you.

Rudi
 
Hey Dallas you might not have to look to far. Electronic stores or Radio repair shop is a good place find these. I know a shop in Montreal that does mail order if you start running into brick walls.
Site internet Addison Electronique Ltd. Website
If you can deal with the french accent these guys have a warehouse full of stuff and specialize in the unusual.

You can probably basterdise somthing from a standar 24v relay here's a pic for the inside of a Bosch one. 15 $ if I remember right. It's just a matter of mounting it to the plate. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

This thread will be a standard go to one for BJ42 information
IMG_2124.webp
IMG_2123.webp
 
Hey Big D....if im not mistaking I think you are in meetings all day today so you wont be able to do a ton today but I do think that Rudi is on to something there with the external relay. So if the guys at RadioShack dont have what you are looking for( wich I can almost gurantee they will have no idea what it is) I think your next best route will be to try and rig one up to pass the burnt relay. Good luck and keep us posted!!!
 
Hi there Big T and Big D (and another Hi to Big R too because I'm sure you'll be lurking around soon ... if not already. Although perhaps I shouldn't say Hi to YOU anymore since you were so instrumental in overturning my judicial ruling over Big D's alternator wiring).

It's Big L here in little NZ piping up (and sticking his nose in) again.....

(BTW - I reckon I should really be THE "Big T" ... but I guess Big L will have to do if Big T is already taken.)

I reckon Big D is similar to me in that he'll want nothing less than OEM-appearance.

So I don't think he could bring himself to install an extra relay external to his FC/EDICrelay box.

And even hidden inside that box (being such an obsessive-compulsive dude) I reckon he'd have to achieve the "OEM look".

And good on him too.... I reckon..

So I reckon he might have to get another 2nd-hand 24V FC/EDICrelay (even if he has to resort to getting one with a different part number to simply use one of the internal relays) to achieve what he wants.

Didn't Seapotato say in this very thread that he has a couple lying around gathering dust?

(Yeah .. I'm doing lots of "reckoning" this morning ...)

:cheers:

And BTW again ...Sorry to revert to talking about you "in the third person" in your very own thread Big D. I'm sure I've violated ih8mud etiquette here.

But then I always was a violator. :D
 
Ha ha ha!!! I have a friend that is an electronic engineer and I am headed over to his house to spend a few hours this afternoon going over this EDIC Relay.

I will post what I can find out here. I showed it to him in a glance and he said - yes, it is "roasted".

I have pretty good soldering skills - and with his EE knowledge am going to try to repair this EDIC relay.
 
lostmarbles said:
Hi there Big T and Big D (and another Hi to Big R too because I'm sure you'll be lurking around soon ... if not already. Although perhaps I shouldn't say Hi to YOU anymore since you were so instrumental in overturning my judicial ruling over Big D's alternator wiring).

It's Big L here in little NZ piping up (and sticking his nose in) again.....

(BTW - I reckon I should really be THE "Big T" ... but I guess Big L will have to do if Big T is already taken.)

I reckon Big D is similar to me in that he'll want nothing less than OEM-appearance.

So I don't think he could bring himself to install an extra relay external to his FC/EDICrelay box.

And even hidden inside that box (being such an obsessive-compulsive dude) I reckon he'd have to achieve the "OEM look".

And good on him too.... I reckon..

So I reckon he might have to get another 2nd-hand 24V FC/EDICrelay (even if he has to resort to getting one with a different part number to simply use one of the internal relays) to achieve what he wants.

Didn't Seapotato say in this very thread that he has a couple lying around gathering dust?

(Yeah .. I'm doing lots of "reckoning" this morning ...)

:cheers:

And BTW again ...Sorry to revert to talking about you "in the third person" in your very own thread Big D. I'm sure I've violated ih8mud etiquette here.

But then I always was a violator. :D
Click to expand...

hahaha ok you can take the title of BIG T if you would like. I can be known on this side of mud as Little t. You have much more knowledge then I do when it comes to these rigs.
 
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