Ditching the 383 stroker?

[Tank5]

If it makes this thread more 40 series related here is the 45 that is getting the upgrade. I purchased it about three weeks ago. I have a lot that I would like to do to it which will come slowly. The biggest need though is to fix some oil leaks on the engine and upgrade the fuel delivery now that I will be keeping the 383 in it.

I put it to work yesterday picking up the Holley Stealth Ram and some other cruiser parts. No problem pulling 37s on the highway at 70 mph. It drank a lot though.

 

[darwink1]

I have followed your FJ40 carcass with vortec heart in this 40 section for a little while. What the heck does it matter that this is in the section? The 383 here in my build is siting in a 65 fj45, very much 40 series. This thread could have gone the 2uz way but I was swayed to stick with the 383. Someone else may benefit from that conversation. I am finding the other members in this thread very helpful.

By the way I do enjoy watching your build as you have integrated some very random art into it. Good luck with it.

I was making fun of the doorknob who originally wrote that. You can tell by the way i typed it (thats how i type sarcasm).

Post away wherever you want man.

Thanks for the props btw.

D

 

[Tank5]

I was making fun of the doorknob who originally wrote that. You can tell by the way i typed it (thats how i type sarcasm).

Post away wherever you want man.

Thanks for the props btw.

D

Cool, It is hard to understand tone though type. I will recognize your sarcasm in the future. Your welcome anytime.

 

[BrianSanDiego]

I was making fun of the doorknob who originally wrote that. You can tell by the way i typed it (thats how i type sarcasm).

Post away wherever you want man.

Thanks for the props btw.

D

I'm glad you said that, I didn't catch the sarcasm either and was kinda bummed about it. Anywho...nice rigs guys!! Cheers.

 

[lone gunman]

may I chime in here? nice system you picked up especially if you got a deal on it. did you get the injectors with it? if not may I suggest accel injectors and probably their 24lb ones if this is going on your 383. you can adjust the pressure through your fuel pressure regulator if it's adjustable, if not I highly recommend you get an adjustable one. you will probably want to run it between 43psi to 48psi but can play with it to get the performance you want. whatever you do stay away from the Bosch type III injectors (orange in color) people will tell you they are the one to use, they aren't. they are rated at about 19lbs and you have to run them at 48psi to get them to flow enough for a 350 and will not flow enough for your 383. I run 21lb accels now at 48psi for my 350 TPI set up.

anyway, on to the fuel system, the stock tank will not work. I run the mechanical pump on the block to draw fuel from the factory tank to a surge tank. the surge tank houses my high-pressure bosch 044 pump and all my return lines are attached to it and then back to my factory tank. I blew up my first attempt at fuel injection (rod out the side) from lean conditions (fuel starvation) trying to make the factory tank work. if you're going to do it spend the extra money and get a surge tank and a do it right. walbro pumps are great pumps but are external and you are better to run a pump in the surge tank or partly in the surge tank like mine is to keep it cool. if you go to a bosch 044 make sure to buy it from someone like summit who buys them by the truckload so you get the real thing. there are tons of fake bosch pumps and they (Chinese) are getting really good at copying them. just do a search on fake bosch 044 pumps and you will see, and don't buy off eBay! they are not cheap and summit will charge you about $229.00 for one. but real pumps have a code you use on bosch's website to verify you got the real deal and don't come with the wire connectors and the bag it comes in has bosch stamped all over it where they seal it.

anyway, I have rambled on enough for tonight. do a search on TPI or tuned port fuel injection on here and you will find threads on the subject I posted back around 2007 and threads from others I helped out back around then. I will link a couple of them that contain good info with links (most still work) and I will post up a few pictures. oh and I got the surge tank off eBay for about $50.00 but if you can fab one that's good too. PM me if you need more info or just post up here in your thread. I don't hang out here as much as I once did (life) but do check in from time to time.

links:

FJ40 with 327 going EFI

Another swap question

first pic is the hole from the rod in the old engine.

 

[Tank5]

may i chime in here? nice system you picked up especially if you got a deal on it. did you get the injectors with it? if not may i sugest accel injectors and probably their 24lb ones if this is going on your 383. you can adjust the pressure through your fuel pressure regulater if its adjustable, if not i highly recomend you get an adjustable one. you will probably want to run it between 43psi to 48psi but can play with it to get the preformance you want. what ever you do stay away from the Bosch type III injectors (orange in color) people will tell you they are the one to use, they arent. they are rated at about 19lbs and you have to run them at 48psi to get the to flow enough for a 350 and will not flow enough for your 383. i run 21lb accels now at 48psi for my 350 TPI set up.

anyway on to the fuel system, the stock tank will not work. i run the mechanical pump on the block to draw fuel from the factory tank to a surge tank. the surge tank houses my high pressure bosch 044 pump and all my return lines are atached to it and then back to my factory tank. i blew up my first atempt at fuel injection (rod out the side) from lean conditions (fuel starvation) trying to make the factory tank work. if your going to do it spend the extra money and get a surge tank and a do it right. walbro pumps are great pumps but are external and you are better to run a pump in the surge tank or partly in the surge tank like mine is to keep it cool. if you go to a bosch 044 make sure to buy it from someone like summit who buys them buy the truckload so you get the real thing. there are tons of fake bosch pumps and they (chinese) are getting really good at coping them. just do a search on fake bosch 044 pumps and you will see, and dont buy off ebay! they are not cheap and summit will charge you about $229.00 for one. but real pumps have a code you use on bosch's web site to verify to got the real deal and dontcome with the wire connectors and the bag it comes in has bosch stamped all over it where they seal it.

anyway i have rambled on enough for tonight. do a search on TPI or tuned port fuel injection on here and you will find threads on the subject i posted back around 2007 and threads from others i helped out back around then. i will link a couple of them that contain good info with links (most still work) and i will post up a few pictures. oh and i got the surge tank off ebay for about $50.00 but if you can fab one thatsgood too. PM me if you need more info or just post up here in your thread. i dont hang out here as much as i once did (life) but do check in from time to time.

links:

FJ40 with 327 going EFI

Another swap question

first pic is hole from rod in the old engine.

View attachment 1735758

View attachment 1735766

View attachment 1735772

View attachment 1735776

I appreciate you taking the time share all of that. I will followup and read the links you provided.
I am learning about this stuff as I go here so I will take all the help I can get. The Stealth Ram Kit cam with New in the package 36lb Holley injectors. The guy that I bought it from said they were the best he could buy at the time. I am hoping I can use them for my set up.

He suggested using the surge tank as well and even took the time to sketch out a diagram for how he had run one on another project he built. I was just searching for them and comparing them when you posted this. The 45 has a large about 30 gallon custom aluminum tank under the bed, the original has been removed long ago. My plan is to use a surge tank although I was going to eliminate the mechanical pump on the engine and run two electrical pumps in the system. You think using the mechanical pump to flow to the surge tank would be better and then use the high pressure pump to the injectors is better than two electrical pumps? I ask because I don't know.

I am also looking to convert to an MSD electronic ignition if anyone has any opinions on them I am happy to listen. I had one on a 71 bronco several years ago and it seemed simple and worked well but I imagine now years later maybe there are other or even better options.

 

[Tank5]

Bill,

I see you found the thread here, I am glad. As you can see I have picked a direction for the EFI, I still need to piece together some parts before I make the install but I will get there. I drove the truck around town for about 8 hours the other day and it did great except for the carb bogging down on me a few times. It sure does get hot in the cab though, eventually I will start looking at insulating the floor and sealing around the trans cover. It will be slow progress until I get some other projects out of the garage first. Having fun with it though.

 

[lone gunman]

holley makes good injectors! I believe Holley and accel are owned by the same company. 36lbs sounds a little on the high side but again flow can be adjusted with the regulator a bit and the computer will also help to lean it out as it learns and tries to stay at 14 to 1 ratio if you have an O2 sensor.

and if you're not using the original tank you might just be good to go but search for in-tank kits so you can put the electric pump in the tank. heat kills electric pumps. and if you do it right you may be able to get by with one electric pump. the only problem is keeping the fuel at the pump and not allowing it to slosh away from the pump and the pump sucking air. lots and lots of companies make surge tanks now and some run into 3 or 4 hundred bucks. way back when I started you pretty much had to make your own but with drift racing, everybody makes surge tanks now. and I like the mechanical pumps because they almost never fail that's why I went that way. if you go the surge tank route it's up to you whether to use two electric pumps or one of each. but electric pumps get pricey and mechanicals can be had cheap if you ever have to replace it. if you stay mechanical for flow to the surge tank you don't need to mod the tank and just need the surge tank. think of it this way the surge tank is basically a float bowl like your carburetor has but for the electric pump. your mechanical pump can run dry with no harm and will eventually suck fuel again to keep filling the surge tank. and like the float bowl in the carb the surge tank stores enough fuel to keep the engine running until the mechanical pump pumps more fuel.

and I use a factory HEI dizzy for TPI so I have no idea on the MSD dizzy but see no reason it should not work as long as your system can use it.

I got to get to bed but will check back tommorrow, good night

 

[bikersmurf]

X3 for sniper! I actually enjoy driving my cruiser with a 1f now! It has never run so smooth or quiet.

It’s budget friendly and you can purchase the holley dual sync distributor to finish it off and control timing. Your 383 would be a total different beast. No doubt about it.

There are other distributor options, but the dualsnyc makes for easier setup.

You could also look into some Multiport options, but not your talking big bucks.

Yes, at least a couple of us are running a Sniper. There is quite a bit of info on it here...
Holley Sniper 2 barrel conversion

This thread has morphed into fuel injection for a carbed Fj40... the above two posts are both regarding Sniper fuel injection on F series motors. The principles of combustion don't change because the block came from a different factory. We all can benefit from the experience that is being shared.

Please go on...

 

[MIKKELSEN]

The search is over I purchased a Holley Stealth Ram multi port set up today. It was being sold locally on Craigslist, was new and came with a bunch of new parts. The seller was supper helpful in walking me through the system.
It came with a billet msd distributor but I am considering going with an electronic version, so I will be researching that next. I also need to purchase the fuel pumps and such to get fuel delivery squared away.
I convinced my self this system would give more control over the engine and potentially result in some fraction of slightly better fuel economy. Honestly I though it would look really cool under the hood of my crusty cruiser.

The rig is pretty much already built but I may start a modern rebuilding thread or something.

Here is a teaser picture of what I picked up.

View attachment 1735051

Nice Dennis!

I’ve swapped a few TPI units in and have a truck in ABQ with one currently. If you need any help let me know. Gas mileage should go up about 8-10 miles per gallon from a poorly running carb. My truck did that after a swap. Power and response will be way better. My 74 Chevy woke up with that swap. Anyway give me a call if you have any questions. I never used a surge tank. Just a FI sending unit from a GM vehicle, with a GM pump attached. Dropped into the tank. I think it’s three lines and some easy wiring. If you need any help feel free to give me a call. Wiring wise too. I have a painless in that truck and ran a stock GM computer.

 

[Tank5]

Tim,

I appreciate you offering up your help I may take you up on it if I get stuck. If this improve gas mileage by 8-10 miles per gallon I will be in heaven. It would definitely be money well spent although if it just improves response and performance I will feel the same way. The 45 has a painless harness and the Stealth Ram came with a new harness. I am thinking I have most of the pieces. The 45 has a large custom tank it and to access it I have to remove the bed so I kinda don't want alter the tank or put a pump inside of it. The surge tank solves a more than just one issue if I use one. I am going to sketch up my fuel delivery plan and list it here for comments tonight. I would gladly take your feed back.

 

[Tank5]

I appreciate all the help on the fuel delivery so far using that and what I have researched I have come up with a first draft. First I want to share some background.

I bought this rig to use as a trail rig not so much a rock crawler but I would like to be able to tackle some mid level technical trails with it, explore some of the high trail passes in the Southern Colorado area and explore some Moab trails. So I expect to drive on some long trails with significant grade and potentially tackle some steep obstacles at varying elevations.

The tank for the 45 is custom made and sits above the frame rails under the bed. In order to access it, it appears you have to lift the bed off, so making a trail repair to anything in the tank could be problematic. I have read that intake pump set ups are better for the pump for cooling and longevity, so I would prefer a submerged pump but not in the main tank because of access.

Considering use and maintenance I am looking to go with a surge tank that uses a submerged pump in the tank. After a lot of searching and comparing I have tentatively settled on using the Fitech Command Center 2 #40004. It is a surge tank with a submerged HP pump and a fuel regulator built into it. The biggest concern I have with it is the combining of the low pressure return lines back to the main tank. Does anyone see an issue with this in my diagram?

Edit question: Since I will be using a regulator, can I "deahead" the system at the fuel rail and just not run a return line from it? My research has not turned up a good answer. I would still run a return line from the surge tank.

Edit: Fitech also sells a single pump surge tank that would allow the fuel line return to run back into the surge tank rather than sending back to the main tank. It does not have the fuel regulator attached so I would have to plumb that in separate. Hyper fuel single pump g-surge tank #40007

I am also planning, as suggested, to use the mechanical pump on the engine to run the low pressure feed line to the Command Center (surge tank.) I like this idea because it is already there, they are generally reliable, easy to replace, and don't have the overheating possibilities as external electric pumps.

The system would run like this:
LP feed line from main tank to mechanical pump with inline filter
LP feed from mechanical pump to surge tank
HP feed line from surge tank to fuel rails through HP filter, surge tank uses a built in fuel regulator
LP return Line from surge tank to main tank
LP return from fuel rail ties into LP line from surge tank to main tank

Picture to illustrate

View attachment 1736471

 

[HalfBreed]

That 45 is rad. Something about its ruggedness and capability while retaining a vintage 45 look. Very cool! Can't wait to watch the progression.

 

[4Cruisers]

OK, so I see Tank1 and Tank2, and you're Tank5, where's 3 and 4?

All kidding aside, I'll be watching this thread because I want to see when you're done and on the local trails in the Jemez as you get it ready for longer journeys. Once the forest opens there are a lot of places to explore without having to drive far. What's your anticipated timeline?

 

[Tank5]

OK, so I see Tank1 and Tank2, and you're Tank5, where's 3 and 4?

All kidding aside, I'll be watching this thread because I want to see when you're done and on the local trails in the Jemez as you get it ready for longer journeys. Once the forest opens there are a lot of places to explore without having to drive far. What's your anticipated timeline?

I am of no relation to the other Tanks, I created my user name from nonsense. LOL

No kidding, I picked this up just after everything went to stage three closures. I have not been able to take it on a trail since I got it and they are practically right off my drive way.

Timeline, I have committed to getting the fuel injection done within 2 months. That kinda depends on what I can sell between now and then. I need to free up some funds to finance this. Speaking of which I have a Full Float 60 series axle for sale that would go well under your project. I am also working on some projects that are not mine. I need to get them finished asap. So this will squeak in between those.

I am looking forward to having something I can hit the trails with after not having anything for quite a while.

 

[4Cruisers]

I am of no relation to the other Tanks, I created my user name from nonsense. LOL

No kidding, I picked this up just after everything went to stage three closures. I have not been able to take it on a trail since I got it and they are practically right off my drive way.

Timeline, I have committed to getting the fuel injection done within 2 months. That kinda depends on what I can sell between now and then. I need to free up some funds to finance this. Speaking of which I have a Full Float 60 series axle for sale that would go well under your project. I am also working on some projects that are not mine. I need to get them finished asap. So this will squeak in between those.

I am looking forward to having something I can hit the trails with after not having anything for quite a while.

Don't think the idea of a full float rear axle hasn't crossed my mind. I'm trying to decide what to do with the '84 FJ60 I bought new in Las Vegas. It's got more than the typical northern New Mexico rust issues, but it runs strong with 182,000 miles, still on the original clutch. It's ready for a new rear main seal, and I've got a freshly machined flywheel ready, so now's the time for a new clutch. I've toyed with the idea of bobbing the rear end to make it more trail friendly re: departure angle. Even though I have the two FJ40s for the trail, I already own the '84, know its entire history, and don't need to care about trail damage to the body anymore . A full floating rear axle might be good for the '84 come to think of it. When will it get to New Mexico?

 

[Tank5]

I should have it here Saturday. If the 45 didn't already have the rear axle converted to disk brakes I would be keep it. Since it has disk rear brakes I am going to take another direction to keep it that way.

 

[lone gunman]

your fuel system diagram looks good, almost identical to mine and it should work great!

 

[Tank5]

your fuel system diagram looks good, almost identical to mine and it should work great!

I just added this edit to the fuel system post any thoughts?

Since I will be using a regulator, can I "deahead" the system at the fuel rail and just not run a return line from it? My research has not turned up a good answer. I would still run a return line from the surge tank.​

 

[lone gunman]

i would still run the return line from the rail, your injectors can only use so much fuel and any exrta needs a way to return to the surge tank/main tank.