Considering `91 Vanagon -> `95-`97 FJZ80

[shizam]

Hey All,
I'm looking to move on from my `91 Syncro Vanagon for various reasons, I was looking at a `03-`05 100 series or `95-`97 80 series, last weekend I went to check out a `05 LX470 and decided it wasn't the vehicle for me, it was "too nice" if that makes any sense, I'm looking for something that feels a bit more like an adventure so now I'm looking at late model 80 series. I have a couple questions though about long-term experience of driving an FJ80 with respect to reasons why I'm moving on from the Vanagon.

1. Are you able to converse at normal speaking volume w/people in the back seat of a 97 FJ80 with 33" tires, a 2-3" lift, and a RTT while doin 70 down the highway?
2. Are you able to drive uphill on the freeway, in the heat, at 55+ MPH w/out worrying about overheating? I'm pulling > 6000lbs on a 110hp 4 cylinder engine, the FJ80 looks like its 5000lbs with a 210hp 6 cylinder so I assume so but I keep reading a lot of complaints about overheating.
3. Does the AC reliably work, assuming its fixed/repaired correctly? If its 95 out can you blast the AC to get it down to feeling comfortable?
4. Does the cruise control reliably work, assuming its fixed/repaired correctly?
5. Is it comfortable to drive if you're tall (~6'2")?

If I were going 100 series none of these would be a question, (late) 80 series seems like it could go either way.

Especially anybody who's come to the FJ80 from a late model Vanagon I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[sbman]

1. If you have Street tires or All Terrain tires with then it's not that loud. Mud Terrains louder...
2. No overheating issues if your cooling system is in good repair
3. AC works fine. Backseat might not be the best, there's not ducts back there
4. Cruise works fine
5. Depends on your particular build, best to try it. I'm 5'11" and find it OK. Can see if much taller would be a problem, but there are seat mods you can do to get a bit more leg room at the expense of back seat room.

I've put over 100K miles on my '97 80 and as long as you don't want to cruise at 80+ all the time you should be fine.

 

[simple]

You are considering going from a very very slow vehicle to a slow vehicle so that seems like a nice upgrade. The added bonus is the LC will survive a major impact when your VW probably will be a mess. The engine in the back will still be good to transfer to the next VW though!

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[Marco Lau]

Sounds like 100s is more of your Jam, considering the type of questions you asked in your OP.
IMO, if your not going over 35s at the very min. 100s is what you are looking for, with decent power V8, relatively quiet, Cruise control etc, and have enough sound batt./ insulation to have normal conversation going 80s w/ a RTT.

any 80s can do all of the above and do it well. It all boils down to the condition and maintenance records...

 

[Broski]

To be clear if you looking at 95-97 there FZJs
Like Marco said you will probably be happier in 100s
That being said the 80s rule !

 

[shizam]

are considering going from a very very slow vehicle to a slow vehicle so that seems like a nice upgrade

Hahah yes exactly, the 100 would be a bigger "upgrade" but something feels lost for me going to 100 so its not worth the exchange. And you're right that safety is also on the list, the Van has no airbags, no ABS, no crumple zones, and the only thing between my knees and a brick wall is a sheet of metal and a headlight, if we crash we're all going to die instantly :RIP:.

Sounds like 100s is more of your Jam

I thought the same thing, from a checking boxes on paper perspective I should want a 100 but when I went to drive my heart just wasn't in it, it didn't have the personality or soul I was looking for, my house is 100 years old and its the same feeling I get when I visit newer houses. We recently bought a new DD car and I made the mistake of getting the car that checked all the boxes instead of the one that made me smile, lesson learned.

 

[banjo1981]

I (like many on this forum) have owned 100, 200, 100, 80, 80. Still have a 100 for my wife and an 80 for me. I really liked the 100 over the 200 for the same reason you stated above “the 200 was too nice” and it didn’t have the same driving characteristics I liked about the 100.

BUT now anytime I reach for a set of keys it’s always the 1993 FZJ80 that gets the nod. Not the Tundra, not the LX470, the 80 series. And my kids feel the same way . Something hard to explain, but I just like driving that stupid piece of junk. As always, get the most maintained 80 or 100 series Land Cruiser you can find and afford. Happy hunting.

 

[Marco Lau]

Hahah yes exactly, the 100 would be a bigger "upgrade" but something feels lost for me going to 100 so its not worth the exchange. And you're right that safety is also on the list, the Van has no airbags, no ABS, no crumple zones, and the only thing between my knees and a brick wall is a sheet of metal and a headlight, if we crash we're all going to die instantly :RIP:.


I thought the same thing, from a checking boxes on paper perspective I should want a 100 but when I went to drive my heart just wasn't in it, it didn't have the personality or soul I was looking for, my house is 100 years old and its the same feeling I get when I visit newer houses. We recently bought a new DD car and I made the mistake of getting the car that checked all the boxes instead of the one that made me smile, lesson learned.

80s are full of personalities and characters That is probably why most of us are here to begin with....

 

[djsixbillion]

I've had both - still have my 1990 Syncro Westy (with a 1.8T to make it less slow), and currently have a 2003 4Runner as well. I loved the 80-series, and a well-maintained one will tick the boxes you've outlined. It's a classic truck at this point too, so "well-maintained" really means just about everything replaced in the cooling system, low miles on the engine and/or some major maintenance done there, new suspension, etc etc, so keep that in mind. The other major thing to note, and I'm sure you're aware of, is the abysmal fuel economy. I owned two different 80's, one on 33's and one on 35's. Neither ever got better than 13 mpg, and the supercharged one on 35's was often in the single digits when using the available power. Doesn't sound like too much of a difference from the 16 or 17 a Vanagon gets, but in reality it's huge.

All that being said, the 80 really is a sweet spot in terms of still having a ton of character, but also incorporating modern EFI, great HVAC, electronic lockers, all those goodies. Oh and just about any Cruiser except for an open-top 40 is light years ahead of the Vanagon in terms of noise. That's one thing that's always a bummer with trips in the Syncro - yelling at the kids in the back seat just so they can hear!

 

[GTV]

I love my 100 but nothing, absolutely nothing camps as well as a late model Westy.

 

[cahill]

5. Is it comfortable to drive if you're tall (~6'2")?

I am 6'3 and have been comfortable without changing out the seating or using brackets to extend the seats.

2. Are you able to drive uphill on the freeway, in the heat, at 55+ MPH w/out worrying about overheating?

Haha, once you truly join the 80 crowd, paranoia after reading too many posts sets in and you will always be worried about overheating Just install a something to keep an eye on temps occasionally and if your cooling system is well maintained you will begin to become confident that it won't overheat - that is until you get back onto mud or you start the next long climb up the next hill

 

[shizam]

Oh and just about any Cruiser except for an open-top 40 is light years ahead of the Vanagon in terms of noise. That's one thing that's always a bummer with trips in the Syncro - yelling at the kids in the back seat just so they can hear!

This is music to my ears, its the top complaint by far for me. I suppose putting on street tires and swapping to a 1.8T would improve things but for the price of the engine swap I could get a whole FJZ80.

absolutely nothing camps as well as a late model Westy

Yea... yea this is the biggest concern in going this route, camping in the VW is top notch, once you get on location its amazing, getting to location though, especially if its 100's of miles, sucks. When we first got our VW ~7 years ago we camped _a lot_, once all our kids got older and everybody got involved in their own sports it became harder to organize meaningful outing. Now we're just camping less and I'm trying to optimize for slightly different things.

 

[djsixbillion]

This is music to my ears, its the top complaint by far for me. I suppose putting on street tires and swapping to a 1.8T would improve things but for the price of the engine swap I could get a whole FJZ80.


Yea... yea this is the biggest concern in going this route, camping in the VW is top notch, once you get on location its amazing, getting to location though, especially if its 100's of miles, sucks. When we first got our VW ~7 years ago we camped _a lot_, once all our kids got older and everybody got involved in their own sports it became harder to organize meaningful outing. Now we're just camping less and I'm trying to optimize for slightly different things.

You would think the 1.8T would be quiter, but nah. It's still spinning at 4k rpm at 70 mph with the low gearing on the van. I've got AT tires on mine, and they're not the issue. It's engine noise plus wind noise plus everything rattling in the cabinets...but ah when you get to camp, so sweet!

 

[Flank]

One thing: most of the replies, if not all have ignored is your height of 6’2”. You will find the driving room for the 80 cramped unless you get some state seat extension brackets to move the drivers seat back. Landtank made some, don’t know who selling them currently. However, if you’re used to driving the Vanagon… No legroom obviously doesn’t bother you.

 

[jpoole]

I didn't read the full thread so may not be adding much but I wanted to chime in since I've now got about 80k miles on my '97 FZJ and I've previously owned many VW vans from splitties to Vanagons. I Full-timed in an '83 Vanagon for a decade, have traveled in most flavors of Vanagon including later model synchros, various conversions, etc.). Anyway, very familiar with that platform and think it's great in many ways.

When I got my 80 (2016) I closely considered 100s and 80s and had spent a lot of time deciding which way to go. I decided on a '97, locked CE as it was my fav. of the US spec 80s. I prefer the later odb2 rigs, enjoy the auto climate control and think lockers help justify care and feeding of the rig since you get higher resale if/when you move on to a different vehicle and of course they are there if you need them. I've driven it about 80k miles now and have no plans to replace it.

A big factor for me in deciding between 80/100 was that I wanted to own the LC indefinitely and planned to do most/all of the work on it. Keeping the 100 on the road long term was a less appealing to me but in reality it probably shouldn't be that big of a factor. AHC (LX only) and Brakes (LC or LX) seemed like the biggest mech downsides to the 100 platform though there were other differences like timing belt, integrated controls (later versions), etc that were less appealing in my opinion. Beyond the mechanical differences I prefer the overall feel of the 80 which was probably influenced by a vanagon being my primary vehicle when I was shopping. I think that a well sorted LX 470 is delightfully comfortable though but it's a pretty foreign/unmechanical experience compared to what I'm used to.
I've got young kids and can converse with them while cruising 70 down the road if they are in the 2nd row and speak clearly. We just finished a 6 hour drive an hour or so ago, occasionally in pouring rain, and talked most of the way without issue. 3rd row is a little harder regarding talking at highway speeds but is fine at lower speeds. I run Michelin XLT in 33" size so tire noise isn't a factor and my rack setup is quiet right now though at times it's been louder so a RTT may or may not be an issue here. I've added sound deadening to floors and doors and new carpet with a thicker backing though it didn't seem to make much difference. New door seals would help at this point as that is the largest noise source and rooftop insulation/deadening may help but I've not tried yet. I've got some hearing loss so am sensitive to cabin noise. My wife's lexus is noticeably quieter but the 80 is acceptable.

Safety and AC were the main reasons I got rid of the Vanagon Westy as it just didn't work with kids in SouthEastern heat with me worrying about being rear-ended on the highway. Not being able to communicate with the rear seat unless we shouted didn't help the Vanagon either. I've pulled a 3k lb camper around a lot of the US with stuff on the 80 roof, etc. It's slow at times but feels safe since the big rigs are usually slower when the 80 really struggles.

Overheating isn't an issue. Clean/sort the cooling system and tune the fan clutch and you can tow with AC on high in really hot ambient temps with no issue, etc. Maybe wheeling in the SW dessert summer could justify upgrades from stock but the OE fan / clutch setup can move a lot of air and will cover you with little worry if the system is in proper condition.

AC works great but it's dash vent only so you can get a little cold up front trying to keep the rear cool in really hot temps. Roof insulation and a mid-cabin circulating fan would help but we haven't needed to take those steps. I replaced all AC system components and recharged the sytem in my '97 and it blows really cold. It was acceptable before the full system overhaul but noticeably colder the last year or two since I did the full update. You can aim the vents to push air to the back without hitting front row passengers and my rear passengers stay comfortable even in our humid Southern Summers. The crotch vent is great

Cruise control works great. I had to tighten the cable per mud recs and now I use it most of the time when driving on the highway. The 1mph speed change with up/down bump means I drive without feet on the pedals most of the time

6'2" could be tight depending on where the inches are. I'm 6'1" and the 80 is pretty comfortable but there's no extra room in my opinion. I keep the seat all the way back and adjust the seat back angle based on driving conditions/preferences. The seat bottom angle is useful and can help shift the pressure points on longer trips. The stock seats aren't the best though but they are passable if in decent shape in my opinion. You may need the seat extension setup but it could cramp whoever sits behind you though I don't know about that from experience.

If you plan to tow a lot go ahead and get a 100 and don't look back I'd say. The 80 does fine for me on the East Coast but struggles out West at higher elevations. Camper options were more limited with the 80 but that was a compromise I was ok with. etc. though it sounds like you may not plan to tow anything.

The 80 makes a great solo camper I think without anything out back or on the roof. I've added a platform down one side and then use a single 3rd row seat on the other side in camp. Nothing like the Westy but camps well in my opinion. I've enjoyed moving to a trailer based camping setup though and not needing to decamp to drive anywhere/etc.

Good luck and sorry if this was a bit of a ramble. A Vanagon driver asking about 80s has a ton of overlap for me.

PS I just finished a weekend camping trip to see the eclipse with the family. We met up with the guy that bought my last Vanagon back in '16 so I just got to revisit that platform which brought back good memories but didn't make me want to go back to that setup Pic from this weekend below.

 

[shizam]

Epic response @jpoole, really appreciate the detail, it does indeed sound like I'm on the same journey just a couple steps behind and this helps push me on. Seems like a FJZ is a noticeable upgrade in safety/performance/comfort while keeping in the same realm of experience even if "campability" isn't quite the same.

However, if you’re used to driving the Vanagon… No legroom obviously doesn’t bother you.

To @Flank and @jpoole 's points though about height, I did find the Vanagon unbearably short in the cockpit and took an angle grinder to the seat rails to add one more seat stop waaay back. Wife did not like the look of sparks flying 1hour before we were supposed to head out camping for the weekend... Glad to hear there is some mod for the seat in the LC.

 

[PIP]

My 13 y/o daughter recently informed me she is dead set on a Vanagon for her first car and wants my help to find one and 2.0 TDI swap it (she knows how to rope her old man into a project).

Reading this thread makes me feel like I might be a bad parent if I let her go down that path. lol

 

[jpoole]

13 y/o daughter recently informed me she is dead set on a Vanagon for her first car

Interesting, where do you think she got the idea? I assume there's a social media influencer touting the amazing qualities of TDI converted Vanagons out there?

When I sold my last Vanagon most of the interested / possible buyers were younger women which was a change from the many I had sold in previous years/decades. It may not have been my place but I discouraged them from buying my van by highlighting the mechanical maintenance side of old VWs. I'm glad I ended up selling it to someone that knew what they were getting into as there was no disappointment or drama and the van is in great shape today. I would have sold it to anyone but wanted the buyer to show an interest and sense of the parts of the ownership experience that are harder to pick up on via social media. Learning to care and feed for a 30+ year old VW seems as good a hobby as any if a young man or woman is into it but the expectation of cruising all over the country hassle free could lead to disappointment for some if they aren't lucky.

 

[simple]

I love my 100 but nothing, absolutely nothing camps as well as a late model Westy.

My E350 based 4x4 Sportsmobile says you are wrong

 

[Devils Paw 80]

Just two comments here. First, at 6’5” my 80 has enough head room but felt a bit cramped for leg room. I added the land tank seat extensions.
I would strongly advise against a lift and big tires for mostly road driving. Besides an 80 is extremely capable in stock form off-road.
Very comfortable, well planted on the road with good handling AND quiet in this configuration IMO.