BEB's JUST IN TIME?
- Thread starter northernrighty
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- #23
Please let us know of these repeat issues. I thought we were home free once these were done, but I guess that a $150 job every 20 years isn't that bad!
there might be more to this story
just because the BEB are changed doesn;t mean they can now neglect the oil change interval and filter change. also driving style might have a bearing on the issue.
need more info before i jump on the "doesn't solve the problem" band wagon.
just because the BEB are changed doesn;t mean they can now neglect the oil change interval and filter change. also driving style might have a bearing on the issue.
need more info before i jump on the "doesn't solve the problem" band wagon.
Replacement brgs type is also the important factor .
Many here just assume the readers know the model year and all the details of there problem,no profile nutten ,EG "i found this blue wire,where it go""
So the ones who have changed the brgs , what was the replacement type / make / white boxed with made in India.
This day of engine , i have not done inner fixings for some time now, let alone if the parts guys have any guts in stock.
I know the AL style were used on some units- but caused bugs.
I'll see if i can root up some new bits, all used is already a pop cans .
VT
Many here just assume the readers know the model year and all the details of there problem,no profile nutten ,EG "i found this blue wire,where it go""
So the ones who have changed the brgs , what was the replacement type / make / white boxed with made in India.
This day of engine , i have not done inner fixings for some time now, let alone if the parts guys have any guts in stock.
I know the AL style were used on some units- but caused bugs.
I'll see if i can root up some new bits, all used is already a pop cans .
VT
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I used these posted pix and some others from a different thread.
I have asked a few younger bucks to take a look. On a different forum .
Im sure they wouldn't know how to lay & blue / scrape in a babbitt pour , but cobb-webs get refreshed with there take.
VT
I have asked a few younger bucks to take a look. On a different forum .
Im sure they wouldn't know how to lay & blue / scrape in a babbitt pour , but cobb-webs get refreshed with there take.
VT
Cruisin'
Out in the shop, building something cool!
Interesting. NorthernEighty, I'm pretty impressed at what good shape yours were in at over 200,000km. I did mine shortly after getting the truck at 117,000km. The worst was hole #1, and #4 didn't look much better. The others were similar to yours.
I replaced with the upgraded ACL units, and have bee pretty prepared to forget about them. If someone wanted to buy me another set of ACL bearings and some new con-rod bolts (and throw in something for my time), I'd be willing to do it again at 200,000km (in about another year) and see how they have stood up with regular oil changes with quality oil and filters. Otherwise I guess I'll just agree with the large bulk of wisdom here (including Wayne and others) who say that Toyota had a batch of junk bearings and replacing them with good ones solves the problem.
I replaced with the upgraded ACL units, and have bee pretty prepared to forget about them. If someone wanted to buy me another set of ACL bearings and some new con-rod bolts (and throw in something for my time), I'd be willing to do it again at 200,000km (in about another year) and see how they have stood up with regular oil changes with quality oil and filters. Otherwise I guess I'll just agree with the large bulk of wisdom here (including Wayne and others) who say that Toyota had a batch of junk bearings and replacing them with good ones solves the problem.
Before you do forget about them. Read up on the Aussies who replace theirs every 100,000km.
They wouldn't be doing that if the first replacement set looked great at 100,000km.
Remember, Australia and the rest of the world have had these trucks for 15 years more than Canada has.
I have not seen clear answers in any forums or archives of conversations on this issue from Oz and Europe which answer my questions. I'll outline it here:
1) There are sporadic reports of bearing issues in FT's, but not near the numbers as the 1HD-T. (Too bad the one website I was aware that was tracking and compiling a good number of mailing list (in the day) discussions on this problem seems to be lost). Found it: http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/80bigend.htm
2) Yes, there are folks in Oz checking and replacing the bearings at 100,000km intervals. (Don't know if what brand bearings they are using is being tracked or listed).
3) In Oz, there were a number replaced by Toyota when the issue started showing up (from what I understand...if you knew about the problem, showed them the paperwork and had impeccable maintenance) and as Toyota did the replacement they were likely using factory Toyota bearings, in which they said they had "fixed" the problems.
4) I have not seen reports that say if the replaced bearings which were replaced again at 100,000kms are using the "reworked" Toyota supplied Tin/Aluminum connecting rod bearings, or using the ACL Duraglide Copper/Lead bearings.
5) If anyone has consistent information which shows us that these replacement bearings are either the "reworked" Toyota or ACL Duraglide variety it would be appreciated.
6) In the meantime...ACL Duraglide are my choice.
Read this link for some more interesting discussion. https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/97003-hdj81-1hd-t-beb-replaced.html
If you dig through the archives in the DTCL and 80's cool list here: http://www.rmlca.ab.ca/archives/ you might find more information.
And this one explains the Toyota replacement process/issues: http://www.lcool.org/technical/80_series/td_bearings.html In this one there is reference to Toyota doing the repair, and one would assume the Toyota replacement was Tin/Aluminum again.
There have been a number of ideas floated as to the cause of the issue: Crank harmonics, non-JDM grade oils, bad oiling, and bad bearing composition.
hth's
gb
1) There are sporadic reports of bearing issues in FT's, but not near the numbers as the 1HD-T. (Too bad the one website I was aware that was tracking and compiling a good number of mailing list (in the day) discussions on this problem seems to be lost). Found it: http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/80bigend.htm
2) Yes, there are folks in Oz checking and replacing the bearings at 100,000km intervals. (Don't know if what brand bearings they are using is being tracked or listed).
3) In Oz, there were a number replaced by Toyota when the issue started showing up (from what I understand...if you knew about the problem, showed them the paperwork and had impeccable maintenance) and as Toyota did the replacement they were likely using factory Toyota bearings, in which they said they had "fixed" the problems.
4) I have not seen reports that say if the replaced bearings which were replaced again at 100,000kms are using the "reworked" Toyota supplied Tin/Aluminum connecting rod bearings, or using the ACL Duraglide Copper/Lead bearings.
5) If anyone has consistent information which shows us that these replacement bearings are either the "reworked" Toyota or ACL Duraglide variety it would be appreciated.
6) In the meantime...ACL Duraglide are my choice.
Read this link for some more interesting discussion. https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/97003-hdj81-1hd-t-beb-replaced.html
If you dig through the archives in the DTCL and 80's cool list here: http://www.rmlca.ab.ca/archives/ you might find more information.
And this one explains the Toyota replacement process/issues: http://www.lcool.org/technical/80_series/td_bearings.html In this one there is reference to Toyota doing the repair, and one would assume the Toyota replacement was Tin/Aluminum again.
There have been a number of ideas floated as to the cause of the issue: Crank harmonics, non-JDM grade oils, bad oiling, and bad bearing composition.
hth's
gb
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you don't need to replace the bearings and con rods just to drop the caps and take a look.
it is just a dirty job is all. i never own a truck long enough to care to recheck but IF i did then i would each 20th oil change just for s***s and giggles.
it is just a dirty job is all. i never own a truck long enough to care to recheck but IF i did then i would each 20th oil change just for s***s and giggles.
You might be talking about mine. My HDJ sat in Wayne's yard winter of '08-'09 because I blew the bottom end.
I still have it and now I'm looking to rebuild it in the spring, having trouble tracking down parts though. Seems like their are a few places to get bearings but no one seems to have all the parts for a full rebuild?
- Thread starter
- #34
This has been a great discussion. Thanks for all the input. I will havea look in 100,000 km and let you know in five years or so. lol.
yeah, after all the beb threads i've seen, i think this is one of the better ones with lots of great info.
Well Wayne, if you can walk me through the next beb job, IF we still have the 80, i'll share that pic! you did it at 75K kms, i'm still at 120K right now.
Well Wayne, if you can walk me through the next beb job, IF we still have the 80, i'll share that pic! you did it at 75K kms, i'm still at 120K right now.
Just to add a little oil to the fire with regards to the dry start up theory, I have found with my experiments/experience the following:
1, If you remove the the sump having drained the oil the night before AND left the plug out you will find that if you loosen the oil filter the following day oil will run out of the pick up pipe (clients car).
2, If you repeat and once the sump is removed instead of loosening the oil pick up pipe try loosening the oil filter, oil will flow out of the pick up pipe (my car)
3, Drain the oil in the normal manner and wait for it to stop dripping indicating the sump is empty, now loosen the oil filter and within half a minute or so oil will start coming out of the sump again, not a lot about half a cup, (various clients cars and mine), I have to assume the oil is held by the vacuum created by the OE (or any decent filter for that matter) non return valve for at least 12 hours, think of the finger over the end of a straw containing milk.
Whilst not particularly scientific it is reasonable to assume that the oil galleries are still holding a fair amount of oil which gets pushed to the bearings within a very short time.
Is there anyone reading this who has changed the bearings themselves and witnessed this oil being dumped as the pick up pipe is loosened?
Just my 2 euros
regards
Dave
1, If you remove the the sump having drained the oil the night before AND left the plug out you will find that if you loosen the oil filter the following day oil will run out of the pick up pipe (clients car).
2, If you repeat and once the sump is removed instead of loosening the oil pick up pipe try loosening the oil filter, oil will flow out of the pick up pipe (my car)
3, Drain the oil in the normal manner and wait for it to stop dripping indicating the sump is empty, now loosen the oil filter and within half a minute or so oil will start coming out of the sump again, not a lot about half a cup, (various clients cars and mine), I have to assume the oil is held by the vacuum created by the OE (or any decent filter for that matter) non return valve for at least 12 hours, think of the finger over the end of a straw containing milk.
Whilst not particularly scientific it is reasonable to assume that the oil galleries are still holding a fair amount of oil which gets pushed to the bearings within a very short time.
Is there anyone reading this who has changed the bearings themselves and witnessed this oil being dumped as the pick up pipe is loosened?
Just my 2 euros
regards
Dave
(yeah, west coast trip and long drives to work for the wife. that's right, that was early 2009 it had 75Ks.)
it's too bad it's tough keeping track of these figures for loong term "non scientific" studies... if anyone in n.america can remember to post up a 2nd beb inspection/replacement after 100K or 200K that'd be great!
it's too bad it's tough keeping track of these figures for loong term "non scientific" studies... if anyone in n.america can remember to post up a 2nd beb inspection/replacement after 100K or 200K that'd be great!
Dave 2 euros !! thats almost 1 million USB.
I agree that a back flow check valve is the best way for preventing dry starts short of having primers (as in stand-by APU's) . My 3b has the Vac pump oil system and piston cooling valves / squirters . Im sure that also lets the draining somewhat . I will be doing away with that vac system .
Im happy with the time of pressure build up with the system i have so far. since i have a real gauge , the needle pegs 5bar cold much quicker with a Euro filter.
Im just experimenting on one of the few 3Bs i have. When i go to redo the inners and guts , then i will make sure that the best testing parts are installed.
PM sent.
VT