97 fzj80 -no start after body lift removal- tried usual solutions (1 Viewer)

Joined
Mar 24, 2016
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37
Location
San Angelo, Tx
need suggestions/help please!

I've read several dozen threads and tried lots of things - hopefully the solution is something easy

background:
97 40th fzj80, with 183k. ive owned it for the last 20,000 miles or so, and it has always been a reliable starter- no previous issues. The truck was running great prior to starting this job on Aug 13 - i have taken about 5 trips this summer at 500+ miles, cruising at 75mph with no issues besides 12mpg and it eats about a quart of oil every 1,000miles.

i am moving to a big city and wanted to do some work to it to make it more road driveable. i bought it with a 6" slee lift and 1" body lift installed, with 37s. i am in the process of shrinking it down to 4" lit with 35s and no body lift. while i had the job of exposing body mount bolts i went ahead and pulled entire interior to put down sound deadening and run cables/wires for a gentex rearview backup camera. found some rust spots that i fixed after exposing them. So far i have maybe a third of the sound deadening applied so seats, trim and carpet are still removed. I also need to swap coils, run the backup camera cables, and fix one more rust hole i found in the rear quarter panel. I broke off the passenger rear fender flare when i was putting my bumper back on and i think it took some material that was previously hold on with it.

BODY MOUNT REMOVAL
the two front body mount bolts were super stuck. the passenger side i was able to cut the bolt in half through the puck, back off the two bolts holding the bushing (cushion) in place on the frame bracket, lift up the truck an extra few inches (evenly front to back to minimize body torsion, of course), and then beat out the bolt from the bushing sleeve after it was removed. The drivers side was more difficult and seriously took me about 10-12 hours to get out, trying to beat it out. the bushing bolt that ties the bushing to the bracket stripped instantly like butter, so i ended up resorting to having to cut that bolt head off after a lot of struggle trying to get the bolt to get out of the bushing on it's own., including using an air hammer. After removing both bushing support bolts i could jack the body off the frame by about 3 inches and then get the bushing out. had to wail on the bolt for about 45 minutes with a 4lb sledge to get it to move. popped it back in, got the radiator bolts, fan and fan shroud, battery box back together, and attempted to start. no go.

It would seem like the obvious thing causing the issue was maybe i lifted the truck too high to get those bushings out, and a connection came loose or pulled out after getting stretched... The truck was running great before the body lift removal, and i didnt drop the body back onto the frame aggressively, (although i didnt beat on that stuck bolt with an air hammer).

NO START: just a light clicking noise (fuel pump relay), no cranking or starter click or anything.
- CEL is on. i changed the fusible link anyways, because that's always what someone suggests at first.
- A/T and oil lamp on the dash do not light up when the key is in the start position.
- the top right rectangle red light in the dash comes on, above the voltmeter gauge
- headlights, radio, interior lights all come on
- no RS3000 installed/under the drivers seat. the window has a sticker that hints that there may have been an alarm system in the past.
- battery is charged and sits at 12.8 volts. drops down to 11.7 volts with key in start position using code reader battery status monitor
- OBD2 code reader (INNOVA 3100) has "no powertrain DTCS or freeze frame data stored", with green circles (MIS) (FUE) (CCM) but red circles (CAT) (02S) (HTR) (EGR)

what we tried: @zuluzeugma, was over and we tried a lot of things
- tried jumping it with a 'jump start battery' - no change
- tried jumping it from another car - no change
- tried grounding the starter to the neg terminal of the battery - no change
- tried tapping on the starter - no change
- hooked up the fuel pump harness top left and bottom left to a battery - the fuel pump came on running strong.
- walked through FSM ST-13 troubleshooting procedure for start issues. - no change
- checked all grounds in the engine bay, on transmission/tcase, and elsewhere - all were tight
- checked all connections - none were loose or stretched. specifically checked O2 sensors off cats, and looked at neutral safety switch, and others.
- swapped out EFI relay - no change
- checked fuses in key panel - all looked good.
- swapped out fuel pump relay (clicked slightly louder)
- tried starting in neutral - no change

Some other ideas that @zuluzeugma and Leni (i dont know his handle) had - maybe the truck went into limp home safe mode/rollover mode due to all the jarring getting the lift off? would a toyota mechanic be able to read more definite codes and identify exactly which relay or harness/system would fix it?

my questions: (i'm not a very experienced mechanic and something may be super obvious that i didnt see or try
- why would the A/T and oil level lamps not be on - CEL is on, the other two are not
- what would be the cause of the red circles (CAT) (02S) (HTR) (EGR) on the code scanner?
- could it be the starter? i went ahead and ordered a replacement starter online, but i dont think it would have just failed all the sudden. it's original so it's about time to replace it anyways.
- thought about running a jumper from the starter to positive lead as a start signal, like i saw in a thread (not ideal i know)
- though about running a jumper from ignition to starter, bypassing NSS, like i saw in a thread (not ideal i know)

- what else should i try to do?


thank you for your help. since i am moving soon ideally i would get the truck running quickly so i can drive it to where we are moving to and not have to have it transported for me.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
37
Location
San Angelo, Tx
TLDR version:

NO START: just a light clicking noise (fuel pump relay), no cranking or starter click or anything.
- CEL is on. i changed the fusible link anyways, because that's always what someone suggests at first.
- A/T and oil lamp on the dash do not light up when the key is in the start position.
- the top right rectangle red light in the dash comes on, above the voltmeter gauge
- headlights, radio, interior lights all come on
- no RS3000 installed/under the drivers seat. the window has a sticker that hints that there may have been an alarm system in the past.
- battery is charged and sits at 12.8 volts. drops down to 11.7 volts with key in start position using code reader battery status monitor
- OBD2 code reader (INNOVA 3100) has "no powertrain DTCS or freeze frame data stored", with green circles (MIS) (FUE) (CCM) but red circles (CAT) (02S) (HTR) (EGR)
 
Joined
May 20, 2009
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Canby Oregon
battery should be OK as it's showing 12.8volts. might be the issue, though

Just because it shows voltage, does not mean it has the cranking power of a solid battery , have it tested I would put your old fusable link back in, you have done something really wrong either pinching a wire or cut something when you removed the lift kit and come to think about it you might have roasted the new fusable link it is hard to tell when they are bad some times
 
Joined
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I just had a similar issue on one of my 80s. Started it in the driveway and moved it 20ft, turned it off drained the radiator and tried to start it again, clicked twice, tried again and nothing. Put it on a charger overnight and it failed to reach full recharge, 6.5 yr old battery was just done. Cause of my fail was a slowly failing alternator as well. Check your voltage once you get it started.
 

ceylonfj40nut

Waiting for Barn Time
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A long shot. If the body ground was through the body mount bolts, do you think you may have disconnected the ground connection by the way you installed them back after sound deadener? Just trying to get at the root cause based on what you did. When you did rust repair were there any grounding connections that you painted over by accident? Carry on if irrelevant.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
37
Location
San Angelo, Tx
Just swapped out the battery for a brand new one, no change

I didn’t change any grounds when I did the work removing the body lift, and the rust spots weren’t near the grounds. I’ve been needing to just get that done and put the seats and carpet back in and all that, which might have some impact might not

I’ll look again for an alarm system

Thanks everyone for your suggestions - please keep them coming. I’m running out of time
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
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Looked under the dash under the steering and didn’t see anything that was labeled like an alarm system (mainly looking for rs3000 or anything aftermarket. But I didn’t google every box or connection or doodad

I think what needs to be done is go through each system/connection/wire to find where it looses continuity. I’m not skilled or knowledgeable enough to be able to do such a thing, but I do have the FSM so I can try. With the EGR, CAT, 02S, and HTR should suggest something

Also- I replaced my alternator about two years ago

Also- I am able to turn on the wipers. I remember that being an electrical test from other threads. Don’t remember right now what the significance was, but I remember if the CEL comes on when starting, and you can turn lights on and you can turn wipers on that means something good for the electrical system and maybe ignition. Might have been those are just on the same fuse.

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions. Does anyone have a recommendation to a mechanic I could call that might be able to diagnose a problem like this
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
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San Angelo, Tx
talked to another mechanic and he suggested checking the transmission linkage to make sure my NSS isnt in the wrong slot, compared to the shifter. i made the mistake of assuming because i could see the lights on the dash when i moved the shifter up and down through P-N-R-D-2-L and it lit up that it was good to go. i'll check after work

if that fails I'm going to try to get Toyota mechanic to come by and start looking at all the different connections and circuits to try to identify if there is a ground or other continuity issue somewhere
 
Joined
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So far the only thing that makes sense is the transmission linkage out of adjustment. Almost everything else that's been mentioned has nothing to do with the starter circuit, as it is very simple and has almost no interaction with any other system.
Search search search. From a post a few years ago:

"The starter circuit is very simple.
The logic side of the starter solenoid: battery positive terminal; fusible link AM1; fuse AM1; ignition switch; neutral start switch; starter solenoid.
The load side of the starter motor is a direct connection to the battery positive terminal."

Nothing else effects the starter circuit. The ECU and the entire ignition system could be in your neighbor's garage and the starter will still crank the engine.

With the key in the START position, you should see +12 at the starter solenoid connection. If not, then work backwards towards the battery.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
37
Location
San Angelo, Tx
So far the only thing that makes sense is the transmission linkage out of adjustment. Almost everything else that's been mentioned has nothing to do with the starter circuit, as it is very simple and has almost no interaction with any other system.
Search search search. From a post a few years ago:

"The starter circuit is very simple.
The logic side of the starter solenoid: battery positive terminal; fusible link AM1; fuse AM1; ignition switch; neutral start switch; starter solenoid.
The load side of the starter motor is a direct connection to the battery positive terminal."

Nothing else effects the starter circuit. The ECU and the entire ignition system could be in your neighbor's garage and the starter will still crank the engine.

With the key in the START position, you should see +12 at the starter solenoid connection. If not, then work backwards towards the battery.
yessir that makes sense and i even have that written down and printed out (along with your woe and strife pdf and other troubleshooting threads). Thats why it was so frustrating that we couldnt figure it out right off the bat.

currently doing some heavy reading of the FSM and electrical wiring diagram

thanks for your advice and confirmation of current plan
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
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Location
San Angelo, Tx
Tried the linkage and no change.

I tried starting in every gear - no change.

Disconnected the linkage at the NSS at the transmission and cycled through the gears by hand, and verified that the shifter was in the right gear

Any other ideas guys?

Thanks in advance
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
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Location
San Angelo, Tx
Good news and bad news:

1- im an idiot and forgot there was a dang little black box (security system) on the carpet. I finished the sound deadening tonight and put everything back in. Hooked up those connections and now the A/T and oil level lamps come on when the key is in the start position.

2- a mechanic buddy that knows more than me came over to use a multimeter and check the plugs. Found issues with the neutral safety switch and the park/shift safety switch on the shifter.

Bad news- the park safety switch no longer works... might be a fuse blown or something, didn’t have enough energy to investigate tonight. Currently can’t change gears out of park, even with the brake in. Will have to poke the lever inside the shifter (or keep the center console off like I have it now

Good news- we were able to get the truck started by jumping the hot lead to the starter motor to the logic plug. So if I’m in a pinch and need to get it running I can jump it that way if the key is on the start position. Without jumping it it still makes the weak click noise.

So I’m going to try to get some new plugs for the NSS and the solenoid under the shifter.

Got all the sound deadening down, carpet, seats and trim installed.

Tomorrow I’ll attempt to swap out the coil springs to drop to a 4” lift.

Thanks for everyone’s help! Hopefully swapping out those plugs will do the trick. If not I can run new wire along those looms I guess.
 
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