80 vs 60 steering box for Ram assist ALSO why am I burning up pumps like crazy

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Enough to cause enough flow restriction to burn up a pump?
Did you drill your fitting to 5/32" when you added your hydroboost?
PSC recommended I drill mine when I added my hydroboost to add more flow.

More information here, Modifying your Power Steering Pump - GM Truck Central


Also think about switching over to SWEPCO 715 Power Steering Fluid, it solved a few of my issues on my U4 car and I run it in everything now.
 
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If you have hydroboosted brakes, you should have a pump designed for that system. I would say try to find a way to get a hydroboost pump on your motor.
 

Zjohnsonua

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A failed/failing control valve in your steering gearbox or anything in your tires/alignment that causes you to constantly hold light steering input while driving straight is bad for your PS fluid and, indirectly, your pump. This is because both situations allow slight leakage past the control valve causing unnecessary flow and heat. Thus the potential cause of your boiling over.

PS test kits are available for ~$100 to test your hydraulic system. The only nifty part of the kits are the block-off valve they contain. The rest of it can be put together with parts from HF.
 

cruisermatt

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A failed/failing control valve in your steering gearbox or anything in your tires/alignment that causes you to constantly hold light steering input while driving straight is bad for your PS fluid and, indirectly, your pump. This is because both situations allow slight leakage past the control valve causing unnecessary flow and heat. Thus the potential cause of your boiling over.

PS test kits are available for ~$100 to test your hydraulic system. The only nifty part of the kits are the block-off valve they contain. The rest of it can be put together with parts from HF.

good info, but, "constantly hold light steering input while driving straight", isn't that how you're supposed to drive? :lol: I think all my alignment, caster etc is fine.
When I put a new pump on it will not burn out until I hit the trails. The assist on the street will not be what I am wanting but it won't make noise or anything.

I think checking pressure before and after the booster might be a good idea.
 

Zjohnsonua

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good info, but, "constantly hold light steering input while driving straight", isn't that how you're supposed to drive? :lol: I think all my alignment, caster etc is fine.
When I put a new pump on it will not burn out until I hit the trails. The assist on the street will not be what I am wanting but it won't make noise or anything.

I think checking pressure before and after the booster might be a good idea.

I'm talking about the kind of pressure you'd need to hold the truck going straight when you have a moderate to severe alignment issue. Reason being that in that case, the control valve torsion bar will have enough load on it to open the valve and provide power assist. You could measure that as well if you wanted, or you could just line the truck up.
 

cruisermatt

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I'm talking about the kind of pressure you'd need to hold the truck going straight when you have a moderate to severe alignment issue. Reason being that in that case, the control valve torsion bar will have enough load on it to open the valve and provide power assist. You could measure that as well if you wanted, or you could just line the truck up.

Is this drawing a good representation of what's going on inside the piston area of the box when what you're describing is happening?
I don't think I have any kind of alignment issue, the truck drives perfectly straight, HOWEVER is it possible that my draglink/pitman arm orientation is such that while my tires and truck are driving straight the box itself isn't perfectly centered? I know there is a torsion spring in the 80 box to try to help try to keep the box centered, but like I said my steering doesn't pull on the street or anything like that and I was pretty careful to make sure the box was pretty centered in it's travel when measuring for my drag link length (I drew yellow paint pen lines across the pitman arm and box housing at both ends of the box's travel and put it at the middle, if that makes sense).

Am I at least asking the right questions? :lol:

I just ordered another low mileage OEM pump off Ebay from another wrecked Duramax so I'll get that installed and try bleeding the hell out of the steering like AGR shows. Then I guess it's go wheeling and see what happens?

Power-Steering-System-Failures.jpg
 

cruisermatt

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Similar principle, but wholly different mechanism from what your box has. If the truck tracks true and you set the box to center, then this isn't your issue.

Possible to have an internal restriction or pressure leak in the box which could cause fluid aeration and heat? My understanding up till this point is that the boxes are generally either fine or they're not
 
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I never burned out a pump when I was running a mini truck gear and pump/reservoir. Think I had that setup with 35" Boggers, 37" MTRs all the way up to 38.5" TSL/SXs. Struggled in the rocks(understatement) but never burned anything up.

When I went to PSC w/o the ram assist, ended up going thru two PSC pumps in short order, more than likely due to running a remote pump off a bracket mounted to the top of the head on my 2F. Fine setup for a normal pump mounted can, but just left few to no options to mount the reservoir (also had can mounted on the fender). Always ran Amsoil, always always bled all air out, cooler is a bit small (still same one), etc. but just didn't flow right.

No issues since I added the ram and moved the pump just a little lower on a homemade bracket attached to smog pump pivot, and moved.tje can to a bracket mounted on intake just in front of fuel injection, but think that little change up made all the world.

I know you're running the 5.3 now, but what is height difference between pump and the fender mounted can? Is it possible it starves on steep inclines, just once is enough to damage the pump (doubt it's that seeing as how you drove it back 2,500 miles)? Do you ever notice it overheating and struggling - if so, what is the scenario?

35's way to small, even when wheeling and /or with a lunchbox, to roast a decent gm pump.
 

cruisermatt

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I know you're running the 5.3 now, but what is height difference between pump and the fender mounted can? Is it possible it starves on steep inclines, just once is enough to damage the pump (doubt it's that seeing as how you drove it back 2,500 miles)? Do you ever notice it overheating and struggling - if so, what is the scenario?

35's way to small, even when wheeling and /or with a lunchbox, to roast a decent gm pump.

I actually only made it 1500 miles back. :lol:

Thinking back, steep inclines are when I've had the most problems (think being bound up while pointed uphill). I think the Slick Rock obstacle in Ocala did the damage and then Rubicon finished it off. Still have that pump installed but it's loud. However whenever I install a new pump and everything is working properly I have never had the assist that I should be getting with my setup. It feels the same as when I had the Toyota pump and less powerful box. But with a (should be) more powerful pump and bigger box. I feel like I should be getting that "one finger" steering.
The pump is mounted as low as it could possibly be, the reservoir is about as high as it could go BUT is much further back in the engine back. Maybe my return/feed hose is going horizontal when on an incline?
I'll drive the Cruiser over for you to see when you are in town later.

And agreed on the last part.
 

RockDoc

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Just a thought for someone who hasn't set up a hydroboost system.... can the brake accumulator and PS box be run in parallel rather than in series? Maybe the stacked pressure differential is too much for the pump and the hydroboost restricts flow to the PS box?
 

cruisermatt

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Just a thought for someone who hasn't set up a hydroboost system.... can the brake accumulator and PS box be run in parallel rather than in series? Maybe the stacked pressure differential is too much for the pump and the hydroboost restricts flow to the PS box?

I dont see why not, but it would be a plumbing nightmare.
My understanding is that the hydroboost is basically straight-through unless you’re using the brakes.
As I noted earlier, this pump is from a 1-ton GM that would have hydroboost.
 
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@cruisermatt
I'd add a much larger reservoir to your system as you're relying on it to run both your brakes and steering.
I designed my system off an article I'd read (I believe bellavista provided the link in one of his write-ups) describing needed items in a full-hydraulic steering system. I figured the same "rules" would apply in an assist system.
With the GM CBR pump and stock reservoir, I also had a 1.5 gallon reservoir, and cooler that provided another gallon of capacity. In total, my system had about three gallons of fluid. Fluid temps never got above 160.
The steering moves a lot of fluid, especially when it's struggling against a rock.
I'll see if I can find the article for you.
 
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What temperature is your fluid getting to? If your fluid is getting too hot then its probably killing the pump. With hydro assist it probably gets hotter. A normal steering cooler wont cut it offroad. your going too slow and working the steering too hard. As the fluid gets really hot it doesn't lubricate as well. I use a transmission cooler as a steering cooler. It has a electric fan on it wired to a switch in the center console that I flip on once I hit the trail. It's just a cheap ebay pusher fan and a simple 15x15" or so tranny cooler. Its mounted horizontally under my winch. Being under the winch it's not near engine bay heat either. That's been my experience anyway if it helps.
I dont see why not, but it would be a plumbing nightmare.
My understanding is that the hydroboost is basically straight-through unless you’re using the brakes.
As I noted earlier, this pump is from a 1-ton GM that would have hydroboost.
 
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cruisermatt

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I'd add a much larger reservoir to your system as you're relying on it to run both your brakes and steering.
I designed my system off an article I'd read (I believe bellavista provided the link in one of his write-ups) describing needed items in a full-hydraulic steering system. I figured the same "rules" would apply in an assist system.
With the GM CBR pump and stock reservoir, I also had a 1.5 gallon reservoir, and cooler that provided another gallon of capacity. In total, my system had about three gallons of fluid. Fluid temps never got above 160.
The steering moves a lot of fluid, especially when it's struggling against a rock.
I'll see if I can find the article for you.

3 gallons? seriously?
 

cruisermatt

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What temperature is your fluid getting to? If your fluid is getting too hot then its probably killing the pump. With hydro assist it probably gets hotter. A normal steering cooler wont cut it offroad. your going too slow and working the steering too hard. As the fluid gets really hot it doesn't lubricate as well. I use a transmission cooler as a steering cooler. It has a electric fan on it wired to a switch in the center console that I flip on once I hit the trail. It's just a cheap ebay pusher fan and a simple 15x15" or so tranny cooler. Its mounted horizontally under my winch. Being under the winch it's not near engine bay heat either. That's been my experience anyway if it helps.

I am not sure. I would assume very hot/boiling
I've always ran a steering cooler, before I did my big cross country trip I slapped in another steering cooler that was double the size in attempt to hopefully mitigate issue, no change through.
 

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