Builds 78 body off restore (cruiser #2) (1 Viewer)

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So, I have 3 kind of big problems I need to troubleshoot. First two are related to driving in the heat, which is a problem since I will be moving to Houston :eek: soon.

Problem 1) Water temp is getting too hot. As I understand, the 3FE should operate around 195F. I am usually right there, except on a hot day under load (going uphill, going faster than I probably should). The other day, temp got to over 210 and I started getting nervous. I am not sure how hot is too hot, but I pulled off and had to let it cool down for about 20 minutes. I am not sure what temperature "overheating" is, but I need to figure this out, particularly since I haven't got the AC running yet which will only make things worse I imagine. I have the exact same engine and setup in my other 40 and have no problems there. So any ideas are appreciated. Some ideas I have to try are:
- lower radiator hose is slightly pinched, due to making the 3FE fit in the 40. It isn't real bad, but maybe enough to prevent proper coolant flow? I've posted a pic below to get thoughts.
- new fan clutch
- seal gaps in radiator shroud - around the edges it isn't always flush to the radiator

Problem 2) Gas tank under pressure. Same thing as above, only happens on a hot day. Symptoms are when I stop driving and go stand by the fuel tank cap, I can hear a sssssss sound, like pressure slowly leaving the tank. If I take the cap off, its a big whoosh sound. If you read my thread, you will see I have an in tank fuel pump (needed for 3FE) that I installed in to the OEM tank. I talked to @ToyotaMatt who has given me several ideas to try. He said Toyota caps only allow air to be vented in. So is it possible the tank is not under pressure, but the ssssss sound I hear is actually air getting sucked in? I need to try that. I have completely disconnected the hose that goes to the charcoal canister, but I still have the issue, so I don't think it is a problem there. Other ideas to try (thanks Matt)
- make sure all my venting hoses are set up properly
- make sure check valve is oriented properly
- possible that the in tank pump is creating pressure?

Problem 3) at speed I am wandering all over the place. I took it for an alignment and everything was in spec, but caster was at negative 1.7. I think I'm looking for positive caster, so I added some 4 degree shims to the front axle (fat end of the shim forward). It seems to help a little bit, but still too much wander and darting for me to be comfortable. I have mini-truck setup with stock drag link, tie rods, center arm, etc. I've confirmed there is no play in the steering (put it on the lift, started it up and confirmed that the slightest turn of the steering wheel will turn the wheels). I had the gear box rebuilt as well, so no play in that. I am not sure what to do here, other than maybe try bigger degree shims? Ideas? Lift is OME heavys (currently one leaf removed), so about 2-2.5"

Thanks all. Here is a pic of the slightly pinched lower radiator hose for problem #1


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So, I have 3 kind of big problems I need to troubleshoot. First two are related to driving in the heat, which is a problem since I will be moving to Houston :eek: soon.

Problem 1) Water temp is getting too hot. As I understand, the 3FE should operate around 195F. I am usually right there, except on a hot day under load (going uphill, going faster than I probably should). The other day, temp got to over 210 and I started getting nervous. I am not sure how hot is too hot, but I pulled off and had to let it cool down for about 20 minutes. I am not sure what temperature "overheating" is, but I need to figure this out, particularly since I haven't got the AC running yet which will only make things worse I imagine. I have the exact same engine and setup in my other 40 and have no problems there. So any ideas are appreciated. Some ideas I have to try are:
- lower radiator hose is slightly pinched, due to making the 3FE fit in the 40. It isn't real bad, but maybe enough to prevent proper coolant flow? I've posted a pic below to get thoughts.
- new fan clutch
- seal gaps in radiator shroud - around the edges it isn't always flush to the radiator

Problem 2) Gas tank under pressure. Same thing as above, only happens on a hot day. Symptoms are when I stop driving and go stand by the fuel tank cap, I can hear a sssssss sound, like pressure slowly leaving the tank. If I take the cap off, its a big whoosh sound. If you read my thread, you will see I have an in tank fuel pump (needed for 3FE) that I installed in to the OEM tank. I talked to @ToyotaMatt who has given me several ideas to try. He said Toyota caps only allow air to be vented in. So is it possible the tank is not under pressure, but the ssssss sound I hear is actually air getting sucked in? I need to try that. I have completely disconnected the hose that goes to the charcoal canister, but I still have the issue, so I don't think it is a problem there. Other ideas to try (thanks Matt)
- make sure all my venting hoses are set up properly
- make sure check valve is oriented properly
- possible that the in tank pump is creating pressure?

Problem 3) at speed I am wandering all over the place. I took it for an alignment and everything was in spec, but caster was at negative 1.7. I think I'm looking for positive caster, so I added some 4 degree shims to the front axle (fat end of the shim forward). It seems to help a little bit, but still too much wander and darting for me to be comfortable. I have mini-truck setup with stock drag link, tie rods, center arm, etc. I've confirmed there is no play in the steering (put it on the lift, started it up and confirmed that the slightest turn of the steering wheel will turn the wheels). I had the gear box rebuilt as well, so no play in that. I am not sure what to do here, other than maybe try bigger degree shims? Ideas? Lift is OME heavys (currently one leaf removed), so about 2-2.5"

Thanks all. Here is a pic of the slightly pinched lower radiator hose for problem #1


View attachment 3059089



Problem 1 :

- eazy peezy solution , you have a OEM 88'c t-stat now i am assuming ?

- am i correct its a
90916-03052 🤔

- because you have a few heat related KUSTOM mods , i would suggest you swap it out for the 90916-03014

- it's a 82'c for all 1/79 and older 2F and F1.5 engines , i have used this sneak attack approach many times with good results ...

- try this 1 step easy approach first , keep you
r 88' c one incase by a far shot ? this does not help ?

- my gut says this is your UNICORN answer to problem #1



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Problem 2 :


- you have your marching orders there , if no change when you have removed hose from the charcoal canister ? then you have something plumbed / routed incorrectly

or

the IN-TANK EFI pump is the culprit ? 🤔



- @wngrog , would have far more insight on the in-tank pump possibly causing the abnormal pressure buildup as that is all he does all day , is install his version of a

Good Quality EFI pump kit he sources in a KIT form from @FJ60Cam / Mosley Motors ........ , perhaps he can confirm , suggest or verify some additional TECH here ...


- the BELOW image is a late modle FJ45 P/U w a 2F , but all the red arrow reference and tech details here are same in kind theory for your build as far as i understand it to

be and is ......





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Problem 3 :


- what is your actual tires size and brand / what are you running ?

- i would start there after you confirm and verify NO loose steering parts or slop freeplay issues ....

- tire pressure ?

- i run every single toyota i own at exactly 35 psi year round ..........


- low pressure can cause this for sure 100%


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Awesome Matt. Thanks a ton. As FYI I did get my fuel pump from Cameron at Mosley Motors.

I’ve got several troubleshooting ideas…thanks!
 
So, I have 3 kind of big problems I need to troubleshoot. First two are related to driving in the heat, which is a problem since I will be moving to Houston :eek: soon.

Problem 1) Water temp is getting too hot. As I understand, the 3FE should operate around 195F. I am usually right there, except on a hot day under load (going uphill, going faster than I probably should). The other day, temp got to over 210 and I started getting nervous. I am not sure how hot is too hot, but I pulled off and had to let it cool down for about 20 minutes. I am not sure what temperature "overheating" is, but I need to figure this out, particularly since I haven't got the AC running yet which will only make things worse I imagine. I have the exact same engine and setup in my other 40 and have no problems there. So any ideas are appreciated. Some ideas I have to try are:
- lower radiator hose is slightly pinched, due to making the 3FE fit in the 40. It isn't real bad, but maybe enough to prevent proper coolant flow? I've posted a pic below to get thoughts.
- new fan clutch
- seal gaps in radiator shroud - around the edges it isn't always flush to the radiator

Problem 2) Gas tank under pressure. Same thing as above, only happens on a hot day. Symptoms are when I stop driving and go stand by the fuel tank cap, I can hear a sssssss sound, like pressure slowly leaving the tank. If I take the cap off, its a big whoosh sound. If you read my thread, you will see I have an in tank fuel pump (needed for 3FE) that I installed in to the OEM tank. I talked to @ToyotaMatt who has given me several ideas to try. He said Toyota caps only allow air to be vented in. So is it possible the tank is not under pressure, but the ssssss sound I hear is actually air getting sucked in? I need to try that. I have completely disconnected the hose that goes to the charcoal canister, but I still have the issue, so I don't think it is a problem there. Other ideas to try (thanks Matt)
- make sure all my venting hoses are set up properly
- make sure check valve is oriented properly
- possible that the in tank pump is creating pressure?

Problem 3) at speed I am wandering all over the place. I took it for an alignment and everything was in spec, but caster was at negative 1.7. I think I'm looking for positive caster, so I added some 4 degree shims to the front axle (fat end of the shim forward). It seems to help a little bit, but still too much wander and darting for me to be comfortable. I have mini-truck setup with stock drag link, tie rods, center arm, etc. I've confirmed there is no play in the steering (put it on the lift, started it up and confirmed that the slightest turn of the steering wheel will turn the wheels). I had the gear box rebuilt as well, so no play in that. I am not sure what to do here, other than maybe try bigger degree shims? Ideas? Lift is OME heavys (currently one leaf removed), so about 2-2.5"

Thanks all. Here is a pic of the slightly pinched lower radiator hose for problem #1


View attachment 3059089
225 is hot. 210 is not. Drive it.

Take your fuel cap and drill a tiny hole in the center of it to vent. I’ve not read the whole thread but that’s the easy way. If you have a charcoal system and you are building pressure then you likely have fuel blocking the vents

You are basically at 2* positive caster. 1* positive is stock. It should steer good like that.

Did you rebuild your center arm?
 
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225 is hot. 210 is not. Drive it.

Take your fuel cap and drill a tiny hole in the center of it to vent. I’ve not read the whole thread but that’s the easy way. If you have a charcoal system and you are building pressure then you likely have fuel blocking the vents

You are basically at 2* positive caster. 1* positive is stock. It should steer good like that.

Did you rebuild your center arm?

Thanks! Great info. I do have charcoal canister, but I’ve had it unplugged for troubleshooting. I did find that I had two of the fuel separator lines switched (per diagrams) so maybe that’s it? Haven’t been able to test yet.

I did rebuild my center arm, but maybe I did something wrong? I was thinking that too. Steering seems tight…no play that I can find.
 
Your parts we discussed earlier via SHOP HOT LINE , have been shipped via USPS Overnight Express Mail / EMS ...........

you will have on Saturday ........




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Thank you Matt! And thanks for taking time to help me diagnose these issues. I think your guidance on the fuel tank pressure issue was exactly what I needed.
 
Thanks! Great info. I do have charcoal canister, but I’ve had it unplugged for troubleshooting. I did find that I had two of the fuel separator lines switched (per diagrams) so maybe that’s it? Haven’t been able to test yet.

I did rebuild my center arm, but maybe I did something wrong? I was thinking that too. Steering seems tight…no play that I can find.

On the center arm. Take the M10 on the top. Loosen it.

Tighten the cover all the way then back it off 1/4 turn. Lock back with the M10 on the top.
 
You did a great job! Looks fantastic!
 
retightened the center arm. Maaaaaybe a bit better? But still kinda squirrely - it's the worst going around turns. Let me see if I can describe...the road begins to curve. I will turn the steering wheel and the cruiser starts to turn a little bit, but not enough, so I keep turning the wheel and it turns a little more. But still not enough, so I turn the steering wheel a little more. And now it finally does what I expect, but I've already turned so much that now it overturns and I have to correct it.

So a very slight turn of the steering wheel does make the front wheel turn, just not to what I would expect, but it eventually does as I keep turning. I hope that makes sense.

Also, if there are ruts on the road, it will pull hard into the rut.
 
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Wait,,,did I do my shims backwards?

With no shims, I am at negative 1.7 caster. To add shims to get to positive caster, would the fat end of the shim go towards the front of the front axle, or towards the rear of the front axle?

I put the fat end toward the front, but I think it might be wrong.

Quick imagine from the internet:
1657994702599.png


If I want positive, I think the fat end of the shim needs to be facing rearward of that front axle.

Am I right or wrong!?
 
retightened the center arm. Maaaaaybe a bit better? But still kinda squirrely - it's the worst going around turns. Let me see if I can describe...the road begins to curve. I will turn the steering wheel and the cruiser starts to turn a little bit, but not enough, so I keep turning the wheel and it turns a little more. But still not enough, so I turn the steering wheel a little more. And now it finally does what I expect, but I've already turned so much that now it overturns and I have to correct it.

So a very slight turn of the steering wheel does make the front wheel turn, just not to what I would expect, but it eventually does as I keep turning. I hope that makes sense.

Also, if there are ruts on the road, it will pull hard into the rut.
I think you need to re-check caster, which is simple enough to do by removing one tire at ride height and putting an angle finder across the top of the steering arm or knuckle studs. You may have too much negative caster. If you had 1.7 negative caster and you put the fat end of shim forward, you should now be at 2.3 degrees. With power steering, you could actually get away with a bit more than that if in fact you are at 2.3. I would check it again.

There was a poster here a few weeks ago that complained about poor handling characteristics on his 40. What he described sounded like roll steer, but roll steer doesnt really happen on leaf sprung trucks, only on linked suspension vehicles with poor geometry. Turns out he installed 1 front and 1 rear leaf spring front and rear, which had his axles out of square with the chassis due to the hanger to center pin differences being different side to side. I highly doubt you did this given the level of detail and ability I see in this thread, but it's at least worth a check to eliminate it as a possibility at all?
 
Wait,,,did I do my shims backwards?

With no shims, I am at negative 1.7 caster. To add shims to get to positive caster, would the fat end of the shim go towards the front of the front axle, or towards the rear of the front axle?

I put the fat end toward the front, but I think it might be wrong.

Quick imagine from the internet:
View attachment 3060633

If I want positive, I think the fat end of the shim needs to be facing rearward of that front axle.

Am I right or wrong!?
I just went through this in my head and had to draw myself a picture. Fat end of shims forward will rotate the axle and kingpin centerline clockwise if you're looking at it from drives side, which would decrease negative caster / increase positive caster.
 
Thanks it was redhead steering boxes. They are usually pretty good, I think?
 
Thanks it was redhead steering boxes. They are usually pretty good, I think?
Very good yea. That sure sounds like something is binding.

Can you hack the front up and steer it and it all feels smooth?
 

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