6/'72 FJ55: stock drivetrain swap to '84 FJ60 drivetrain

[Pighead]

Yes, some Pigs had no fuel return line. Your diagrams look to be an early Pig. Early vapor recovery tanks could have been under the floor or split behind both rear cargo paneled areas. Check your fuel tank to see if you even have a port for the fuel return line. Traditionally, both fuel delivery and fuel return lines come the front PS corner of the fuel tank.
I like my fuel return line and have kept it stock, same with vapor recovery.
Have no idea if you can add a fuel return line to a weber carb. Assume you could add a fuel return line to an aftermarket tank somehow...
Have only owned Weber carbs on a VW, and they used a separate fuel pressure regulator...

 

[threadchaser]

Fuel return line musings

...Check your fuel tank to see if you even have a port for the fuel return line. Traditionally, both fuel delivery and fuel return lines come the front PS corner of the fuel tank....

Interesting. This picture is the front right corner of the tank on the truck. Bottom line feeds to the fuel pump. Maybe that top nub is a capped off return port. If so then I would think the 2F's fuel pump would be a good thing to keep (the F's pump would be come a trail spare).

From the diagram of the pump in the FSM, I take it that valve at the return port is essentially a pressure regulator, something folks mention as being desirable for Webers.

Pin_Head said that in the case of a return line from the carb, it can be tee'd it into the fuel pump's return line.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=8684530&postcount=3

I'll figure that part out later as it sounds like I can get the engine running without a return line from the carb; I'm not too worried about gas boiling right now in Montana.

None-the-less, a return line from the 2F pump to the tank sounds like a good idea to implement at this time, otherwise I would be defeating the pressure regulator in the 2F's pump which I would guess is not good for the fuel pump nor the supposedly fussy-about-fuel-pressure Webers.

I guess it is time to peek inside the tank to determine if that top right front corner is indeed just begging for a return line.

 

[threadchaser]

Gas tank return port, potentially

That looks promising as a fuel return input to the gas tank. This is situated at the top right front corner of gas tank. I'll let the penetrating oil work it's magic overnight. Could that be blue threadlocker?

 

[threadchaser]

Yes, some Pigs had no fuel return line. Your diagrams look to be an early Pig. Early vapor recovery tanks could have been under the floor or split behind both rear cargo paneled areas...
I like my fuel return line and have kept it stock, same with vapor recovery...

Oh, yeah, there is emissions stuff in behind the right and left cargo panels. I missed that; I assumed things were like with the later FJ55 i.e. only behind one cargo panel.

First pic: behind right cargo panel

Second pic: right below that looking up into RR wheel well.

Third pic: Just forward of the gas tank where the right and left cargo panel hidden stuff comes together and head to the front of the truck.

Forth photo: the right hard line goes to the fuel pump and the left one continues where pic #3 left off goes to the charcoal canister and it's controller.

I guess the wise thing to do would be add a third hardline for fuel return. And I guess there should be a bit of fuel line hose between the hardline and the tank as the tank could jostle around a bit i.e. don't just put the hard line directly into the return port, assuming that threaded and capped port on the upper right front corner of the gas tank is a return port.

 

[threadchaser]

2F fuel pump pressure

Some notes gathered from around MUD on the fuel pressure to be expected out of a 2F's stock mechanical fuel pump:

Jim C.: 4psi is typical.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=5391004&postcount=2

steamer: 3 - 3.75 psi
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=4915108&postcount=23

DougAustinTx: I have one 2F that has 2 pounds of fuel pressure and one that has about 4 lbs of pressure.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=8684850&postcount=4

Ian Rogers: "next put a pressure gauge in same line, get about 4psi from a toyota mech pump" The pressure sounds fine, it need to be between 3.5 -4.7 psi if i recall, thats what it is on the 72' the 2f mightbe higher
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=339958&postcount=6

CRZRJames: If you have 4 psi, then you don't need a new fuel pump. It's doing fine.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=339976&postcount=7

 

[threadchaser]

72/73 Emission control diagrams

These two came out of a Haynes Toyota Land Cruiser repair manual.

 

[threadchaser]

Gas tank sender

This shot is in the cargo bay looking down at the floor with the little access panel removed. I assume that a stock tank's sender would be easier to get at. I am guessing I might as well drop this tank to best assess the situation.

 

[threadchaser]

Fuels supply plan

So, the 2F fuel pump will be putting out fuel at about 4 psi (I am assuming this is so only if the fuel return line is properly set up, not just capped in which case I would expect higher pressure out of the fuel pump, but what do I know).

A Weber docs states "Fuel pressure must not exceed 24kPa (3.5 psi)." But then the very next paragraph talks about a return line which the DVG series does not seem to have (at least not the two 32/36s I have here) so, not the most specific documentation.

I found the above page image in JohnnyC's excellent Weber adjustment thread here on MUD:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/213147-weber-carb-adjustment-thread.html

Lots of thread talks about Webers without return lines at the carb that are fed fuel by the 2F stock mechanical fuel pump, and many folks say the get by just fine without a fuel pressure regulator. On the other hand, a FPR with a gauge just seems like a nice diagnostic and tuning tool:

ntsqd
"Webers do NOT like much more than about 4 psi and some models run ideally as low as 2 psi. They tend to run rich with more pressure, and it's not uncommon at all that a carb pump will exceed that. No idea about the 2F fuel pump specifically, just generally that carb pumps put out more pressure than 4 psi. An adjustable FPR with a gauge so that you can set it while idling is a good thing with these carbs."
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=7502761&postcount=7

Seems some FPR even have a port for a return line:
http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/123497-weber-3236-return-fuel-line-fpr/

None the less, I want to keep things simple at first. So, plan at this time is:
1. confirm this aftermarket tank has a plugged return port at the top right front corner.
2. If true then run a return line from stock 2F mechanical fuel pump.
3. Call it good enough for the purposes of "get this engine running for the first time in 5 years or so."
4. After engine is running return to this topic and get a return line running from the carb to the fuel pump's return line in order to combat vapor lock, and maybe consider a FPR with guage and return line.

A nice solution would be to ditch these Weber 32/36's...

lehiguy in 2005:
"I have used Webers on many different things, I think they are an excellent carb... For the record, the 32/36 is too small, don't use it. If you do go Weber, go with the 38/38"
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=5793270&postcount=4

JohnnyC in 2010:
"the 32/36 is alil on the smaller side for the 2f and kinda just barly right for the 1f. it does run a bit on the leaner side and will get you better milage because of it being smaller than say a 38."
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=5469321&postcount=40

 

[threadchaser]

Grill lights?

I found a pair of lights in a box of parts that came with the truck. Could these be grill lights out of another grill? They look very similar to the ones in this post:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj55-classifieds-corner/759113-71-grill.html

 

[Delancy]

Look like '69s to me.

Will the insert on the grille depicted remove, exposing the hole for the back of those to recess in to?

Have had two '69 grilles, at one time or another, and thought one had a cap similar on the PS.

 

[threadchaser]

Look like '69s to me.

Will the insert on the grille depicted remove, exposing the hole for the back of those to recess in to? ...

Sadly, no; some cutting would be required. If lenses are still available, I'd be down with that. I haven't searched for those yet.

 

[Delancy]

They're not.

Pablo is working on repros, but currently there's none that I've found.

 

[threadchaser]

2F oil cooler banjo bolt

These heads are are supposedly threaded 1/8"-28 BSPT for the stock oil pressure sender unit.

 

[threadchaser]

Door lock button

Inner threads are 4mm x 1.5

 

[FJ40Jim]

Is the lock knob thread spec correct? A 4x1.5 would be a very coarse thread.

Typical toyota machine thread is M4x.7

 

[threadchaser]

Is the lock knob thread spec correct? A 4x1.5 would be a very coarse thread.

Typical toyota machine thread is M4x.7

I rechecked on two doors. That's a 12m x 1.5 rethreader in my hand (just using that to check the 1.5 pitch). There's no metal inside the knob so maybe this ungainly looking thread is because it is a metal on plastic context.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Yep, that is a hella coarse thread to grab inside the plastic knob.

 

[PabloCruise]

As usual, lots of good info in here!

I do not remember, but why do you want to go with a Weber? I cannot think of one reason. Either send Jim C. your carb to rebuild or ask him if he has a builder for you and go from there!

Those lights are for the '69 grille. You could cut your grill to receive them, or try to find a '69 grille. I think Chris was trying to sell his? I am trying to get lenses reproduced, but the guy had to wave me off until March. https://forum.ih8mud.com/pig-parts-group/785245-69-grille-marker-light-lenses.html#post8936031

Are there threads inside that banjo bolt? In the photo it did not look like it...

Last time I checked, Toyota still sells the lock knob for Pigs.

 

[threadchaser]

Inside fuel tank and hooking up a fuel return line

I removed the steel square plug in the fuel tank's upper right front corner. I put the borescope in. This is the best picture I can take by holding a cellphone to the eyepiece.

The picture is rotated about 30 degrees. The line that is the diameter should be the "horizon." That is where a baffle meets the flat, straight top wall. The "'dark sun setting over the ocean" is discoloration from a weld. That weld is more than a foot away from the port where the borescope head was while taking this picture from right inside the port's threads.

Point is that once inside the tapered threads that the steel plug was in, the tank is open without any further piping or other restrictions.

Pighead mentioned: "Traditionally, both fuel delivery and fuel return lines come the front PS corner of the fuel tank." This port is at that corner, and is right [STRIKE]about[/STRIKE] above the fuel send line. I am guessing then that this is indeed a capped return port.

So next I believe I want a hose barb on there and gas to just dribble into the tank via the return from the 2F stock fuel pump.

Given that the plug is seemingly threaded 18 tpi (I don't have a 19 tpi gauge) and that it liked a 3/8" wrench but not a 9mm and not a 10mm, I'm am guessing the tapered threads are NPT and not BSPT. I have almost zero experience with pipe threads but I am hoping that this cruel world does not have in it any 3/8" wrenchable 1/4"-19 BSPT tapered steel plugs in it. That is, I don't think this is a situation like with the oil pressure sender units and the potential confusion between 1/8"-27 NTP tapered and 1/8"-28 BSPT tapered. In other words, I doubt this port is 1/4" - 19 BSPT tapered. Given the dimensions of the tapered threads on the plug, I am guessing this is a 1/4" NPT taper.

Many knowledgeable folks on MUD say the soft fuel lines are 8mm but that 5/16" I.D. hose works just fine. So, a 5/16" I.D. hose barb should be good.

So parts list to complete my fuel system wire up is simply:
1. 5/16" Hose ID, 1/4" NPT Male Barb Hose/Tubing Fitting Connector
2. Some 5/16" ID fuel line.
3. Some hose clamps

I'm punting on a hard line between the fuel pump and fuel tank for return. Hose is cheap and reusable. For now I will just route the hose in the frame rail. I will return to the hard line issue after the engine is running.

 

[threadchaser]

As usual, lots of good info in here!

I do not remember, but why do you want to go with a Weber? I cannot think of one reason. Either send Jim C. your carb to rebuild or ask him if he has a builder for you and go from there!

Thanks. I am with you on that: no need for a Weber but that's what came on the truck's F as well as on the 2F. The stock carb came to me in a box in the cargo aread. It is 500 miles from where the truck and I are but I will be visiting it for Valentine's Day. That is coming back with me. I will drill a vacuum port in it, rebuild it, and get rid of the Weber 32/36:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/291944-drilling-ported-vacuum.html

As usual, lots of good info in here!
Those lights are for the '69 grille. You could cut your grill to receive them, or try to find a '69 grille. I think Chris was trying to sell his? I am trying to get lenses reproduced, but the guy had to wave me off until March. https://forum.ih8mud.com/pig-parts-group/785245-69-grille-marker-light-lenses.html#post8936031

Excellent, put me down for 4 (2 left and 2 right), please.

As usual, lots of good info in here!
Are there threads inside that banjo bolt? In the photo it did not look like it...

The head of the bolts are threaded (1/8"-28 BSPT) for an oil pressure sender unit but no threads inside the other end of the hollow bolt. I am going to have a pressure gauge poking out of one (as an under hood reality check against the dash gauge) and the other will have a pressure switch to a blinking idiot light in the instrument cluster.