3F-E or 2F advice

wngrog

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Having both 3FE and EFI 2Fs

The 3FE is a great motor once you fully Desmog it and simplify. Toyota reliability. Way more complicated than a 2F with a Sniper bit it’s Toyota.

If you keep the 3FE fully remove all that spaghetti under the intake and it’s much easier to work with.

Before and after on cleaning up that smog mess.

BEAA9E23-0FEC-40DB-A7BC-E1676653AB4E.jpeg


5BBDA793-F3F0-46AB-AFEA-BEBE7E006BBF.jpeg
 

Engineer8000

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I agree with the de-smog if you can. Usually on the rare occasion it acts up there are no codes.
 

Alex Waddell

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Having both 3FE and EFI 2Fs

The 3FE is a great motor once you fully Desmog it and simplify. Toyota reliability. Way more complicated than a 2F with a Sniper bit it’s Toyota.

If you keep the 3FE fully remove all that spaghetti under the intake and it’s much easier to work with.

Before and after on cleaning up that smog mess.

View attachment 2786383

View attachment 2786385
Could you tell that there was a performance boost after de-smoging or was it mainly to simplify the engine compartment?
I know that Arizona will not care if I desmog a 68' but does anyone know if, say California, would fail inspection?
 
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It absolutely helps power and there is no reason to install 20 miles of vacuum tubes that just get capped off on one or both ends.

Where do the power gains come from? EGR and the parasitic loss of the air pump aren't much. The cat. converter might provide some restriction, but it shouldn't be much. What am I missing? You can't advance the timing much with the EGR removed. What am I missing?

Thanks - Steve
 
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I put a 2FE into my FJ40 last year. I've had it running for about a year and a half now, and I will say it's an incredible engine. Tons of low end power, great drivability. More useable power then the 350 it replaced. It has a great flat torque curve... it just keeps pulling. I couldn't be happier with it.

I also am getting 16.5 mpg with a 4 speed and 35s. By far the best that cruiser has ever got in the 20 years I"ve owned it.
 

Amplejohnson

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In California vehicles 1975 and earlier don't need to be smog checked, so desmogging your '68 wouldn't eliminate CA as a future home

1976 and later...it's a different story.
 

Alex Waddell

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I am in the process of de-smogging my 3F-E now. Here is the EGR blocking plate I made today out of 3/16" stainless. But I still need to lapp one side flat.
20210925_194942.jpg
20210925_195014.jpg
 

Alex Waddell

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Oil drain plug with 26mm x 1.5 threads will plug the EGR port in the exhaust manifold.
26mm x 1.5 threads certainly measures close to the threads on the adapter that I pulled from the exhaust manifold but it is a tapered thread an not a straight thread like oil drain plugs are.
I expect that the threads are a metric pipe thread on a Toyota which are designated as an RsPT thread. However the RsPT thread is the same as the British Standard Pipe Tap (BSPT) dimensionaly. The closest BSPT to what I measured on my fitting is 3/4 BSP.
1632676913400.png

However the 3/4 BSPT thread is essentially the same as 3/4 NPT pipe threads for this size.
1632677163092.png

As you can see, the thread pitch is the same but the OD is .019" larger for the NPT threads.
Since the threads are tapered, I am taking a chance that a 3/4" NPT plug will fit since it is more common and less expensive.
But if is too tight a fit, I will buy a 3/4" BSPT plug.
Thanks for your input Engineer8000!
 

Engineer8000

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26mm x 1.5 threads certainly measures close to the threads on the adapter that I pulled from the exhaust manifold but it is a tapered thread an not a straight thread like oil drain plugs are.
I expect that the threads are a metric pipe thread on a Toyota which are designated as an RsPT thread. However the RsPT thread is the same as the British Standard Pipe Tap (BSPT) dimensionaly. The closest BSPT to what I measured on my fitting is 3/4 BSP.
View attachment 2796215
However the 3/4 BSPT thread is essentially the same as 3/4 NPT pipe threads for this size.
View attachment 2796216
As you can see, the thread pitch is the same but the OD is .019" larger for the NPT threads.
Since the threads are tapered, I am taking a chance that a 3/4" NPT plug will fit since it is more common and less expensive.
But if is too tight a fit, I will buy a 3/4" BSPT plug.
Thanks for your input Engineer8000!

You are likely correct. Mine has been there for 10 years, hasn't leaked or fallen out yet. My egr block off is just a triangular piece of aluminum, like that pictured above, without the tail. I think I cut a paper gasket to seal it off.

1632678944079.jpeg
 
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You are likely correct. Mine has been there for 10 years, hasn't leaked or fallen out yet. My egr block off is just a triangular piece of aluminum, like that pictured above, without the tail. I think I cut a paper gasket to seal it off.

View attachment 2796231


Are you running a CAT, assume desmogged not? Where is the exhaust run, inside or outside the frame? Have you been running with bellhousing motor mounts with an H55F for ten years?

Questions about 2FE verses 3FE. Gain in torque and HP with 2F block over the 3F block? What accessories (A/C compressor, PS pump and alternators) do you run with each? Is it easier running the 3FE accessories with a FJ62 wiring harness? 3F block uses the same front motor mounts as the 2F?

Alex if you want will gladly delete my post. Just think these are good questions related to the conversion.
 

Dynosoar

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I love my 3FE in my 40. Then engine really wakes up with a manual trans. Do the 3FE and don't look back.
Dyno
 

Alex Waddell

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Are you running a CAT, assume desmogged not? Where is the exhaust run, inside or outside the frame? Have you been running with bellhousing motor mounts with an H55F for ten years?

Questions about 2FE verses 3FE. Gain in torque and HP with 2F block over the 3F block? What accessories (A/C compressor, PS pump and alternators) do you run with each? Is it easier running the 3FE accessories with a FJ62 wiring harness? 3F block uses the same front motor mounts as the 2F?

Alex if you want will gladly delete my post. Just think these are good questions related to the conversion.
You are always welcome to post on my threads and I have learned a lot from you and others.

As far as the 2F vs 2F-E goes, their is a lot of data out there showing that the 2F-E is a big improvement over the 2F.
However, I was not able to find any data comparing the 2F-E vs the 3F-E.

I did a quick spreadsheet extracted from a few dyno graphs that I found for each.

The 3F-E actually had higher HP and only slightly less torque between 2800 RPM to 3600 RPM.
But I was scaling graphs so it could have been within my margin of error.

I couldn't find any dyno data for the 2F-E under 2000 RPM which is where it should do best.

I haven't posted the graph yet because I didn't want to start a controversy.
 

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