3b differences PRE/POST 1984 and interchangability

[dkyuss]

Still trying to get a smooth running 3b in my 81 BJ60. I have 2 Pre 84 bottom ends that are both worn out. Need sleeves and probably pistons. I also have a 86 that I have not opened to look at.

I know pre Aug 84 had 3 bearing cam and different crank bearing setup. Anything else that changed? Flywheel, bellhousing mount?

Any reason my 86 3b wouldn't bolt up to my 81 bell housing and H42 4 speed tranny? What about motor mounts?
Thanks

 

[Dieseler]

86 would have came from a bj70 series I believe they used a different tranny than the earlier 42 and 60 series 3B

 

[cruisedeisel]

Half way through 84 they clocked the bell housing a few degrees for what ever reason. So you'd have to have the right bell housing and tranny to match.

 

[Splangy]

Don't kill yourself trying to get a smooth running 3B. They will all shake and vibrate every bolt on your truck loose.

 

[Mr Cimarron]

Don't kill yourself trying to get a smooth running 3B. They will all shake and vibrate every bolt on your truck loose.

My B almost vibrated my alternator off. Lost the nut and the long bolt was about an inch from falling off.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Yes, they do vibrate a bunch. I had a polyurethane mount for the Toybox in my Troopy. It was fine when I had the inline six H in the truck. I switched to a 3B and that poly mount is too stiff and the whole truck vibrates terribly. Switching to the stock style rubber tcase mount now.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Any reason my 86 3b wouldn't bolt up to my 81 bell housing and H42 4 speed tranny? What about motor mounts?
Thanks

I did this same swap. I used a 3B out of a 70 series that originally came with the aluminum bell housing. I put the cast iron bell housing and clutch setup on an H55 and it bolted up perfectly. Make sure you have the thin steel plate that goes between the bell housing and engine too. The input shafts for a 3B with H41/42/55 are externally the same. So yours should be fine.

I can't comment on engine mounts because I had to make mine. I went from an H to 3B at the same time.

 

[Gengis]

I have the latter B, but it's not too different to the 3B.
So, 5 bearing cam, no cam follower inspection cover, piston oil squirters, rotary IP, built in vacuum pump, no liners but enough meat to fit the old model liners if necessary, fuel cut-off solenoide on IP eliminates all cut off hardware. butterfly in the inlet manifold. 10 hole exhaust manifold which allows one to use the 14BT manifold if fitting a turbo.
Oh, and a nice alumimium tappit cover.
OK, the above applies to the B but I have seen newer 3B's looking much the same as mine, and the toyodiy ( Russian version) gives the 1988 3B a rotary IP.

 

[dkyuss]

By smooth running, I meant to say properly functioning! The motor is a tractor engine...... lots of vibrations! I will try to take some pics tonight to detail the differences I have found.

I did this same swap. I used a 3B out of a 70 series that originally came with the aluminum bell housing. I put the cast iron bell housing and clutch setup on an H55 and it bolted up perfectly. Make sure you have the thin steel plate that goes between the bell housing and engine too. The input shafts for a 3B with H41/42/55 are externally the same. So yours should be fine.

I can't comment on engine mounts because I had to make mine. I went from an H to 3B at the same time.

This is what I wanted to hear! Once crankshaft and pistons are out of this engine I will put on the plate, flywheel, and bellhousing on to see how it fits. fingers crossed.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

My 3B from the 70 came with the flywheel and clutch attached already. So I don't know for sure if they are different or the same. I didn't have to change them. So I'm running the later clutch assembly inside of an earlier cast iron bell housing.

 

[dkyuss]

My 3B from the 70 came with the flywheel and clutch attached already. So I don't know for sure if they are different or the same. I didn't have to change them. So I'm running the later clutch assembly inside of an earlier cast iron bell housing.

My 86 is still on the stand so haven't mated the bell housing but the flywheel bore and bolt pattern match.... looks like the bellhousing holes are the same so I think I am in good shape.


In attempt to compile some details, here is some good info on differences in 3b's
Assistance on differences of 5 and 3 bearing 3B

also

what's the difference between long and short block 3b?
I think the 5-bearing cam arrived in August 1984 to coincide with the introduction of the 70-series.

Anywhere here's what Toyota said about the 3B when introducing the 70-series. (You can see they ignored their use of the 3B in the forty-series altogether.) ....

And here is what I have found


Oil cooler and filter housing. Filter is flipped. 86 on top, 81 on bottom.

Air intake has a sensor, not sure, temp??? in the 86 (left, sensor on bottom). As well as a diaphragm I assume would be an automatic choke? The 86 also had different glowplug setup so I assume the fast glow, vs 20 second glow of the 81 (right)

As well as different fuel pumps. Anyone know the difference? I have not looked it up yet. 81 on top, 86 on bottom

Rocker arms

The 'spring keepers' are also subtly different. I have not measured, but I believe the tapered locking pins seat at the same depth, and would be technically interchangeable...

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Oil cooler and filter housing. Filter is flipped. 86 on top, 81 on bottom.
View attachment 1473777

Air intake has a sensor, not sure, temp??? in the 86 (left, sensor on bottom). As well as a diaphragm I assume would be an automatic choke? The 86 also had different glowplug setup so I assume the fast glow, vs 20 second glow of the 81 (right)
View attachment 1473778

Hmm, mine came with the filter mount that faces down. I wonder if there's a difference in the RHD/LHD filter setups in the 70 series?

That sensor on the intake isn't a sensor. It's the isolation mounting post for the Superglow resistor setup. And the diaphragm/dashpot looks like it might be used for vehicles that had A/C to set the idle up when the a/c was on. Just a guess though on that.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

I think maybe the previous owner of my engine swapped the oil filter mount to the one that points down when he installed a turbo.

 

[SuperDuperCruizer]

I'm getting ready to bolt up a new H55F and I had to swap input shafts. The input shafts have a different bearing retainer on the later transmissions and may require some grinding to your cast iron bell housing. Here's a link about it: Wanted - H55 86-newer nosecone BJ7*

 

[dare]

I reckon my 3B is pretty smooth for an '80s diesel. Sure it's a bit rough at idle but it's pretty much silent and smooth at speed. Compared to the 4BD1 and 300tdi Land Rovers I've driven it's like a Rolls Royce!

The diaphragm on the throttle body will be an idle up, probably for aircon.

By sensor do you mean that threaded thing to the right of the throttle body (toward the back of the motor on top of the manifold? If so that's an insulated post that the wiring to the glow plugs hooks up to.

If you get us a clearer picture of the small font script on the plate between the 2 rivets then we can tell you if there's any significant difference in the 2 injector pumps.

I don't know about BJ60s (we didn't get them here, all our diesel 60s were 2H or 12H-T) but here in Australia, BJ40/BJ42 had the downward pointing oil filter where as BJ70/BJ73 (after 11/1984) was upward. It might have changed in 60s at the same time.

 

[dkyuss]

I'm getting ready to bolt up a new H55F and I had to swap input shafts. The input shafts have a different bearing retainer on the later transmissions and may require some grinding to your cast iron bell housing. Here's a link about it: Wanted - H55 86-newer nosecone BJ7*

I am hoping to use the 86 3b from a BJ70 and mate it to a 1981 bell housing and H42. I think this will only be an issue if I was attempting to use a newer transmission? Do I read this correct?

I reckon my 3B is pretty smooth for an '80s diesel. Sure it's a bit rough at idle but it's pretty much silent and smooth at speed. Compared to the 4BD1 and 300tdi Land Rovers I've driven it's like a Rolls Royce!

The diaphragm on the throttle body will be an idle up, probably for aircon.

By sensor do you mean that threaded thing to the right of the throttle body (toward the back of the motor on top of the manifold? If so that's an insulated post that the wiring to the glow plugs hooks up to.

If you get us a clearer picture of the small font script on the plate between the 2 rivets then we can tell you if there's any significant difference in the 2 injector pumps.

I don't know about BJ60s (we didn't get them here, all our diesel 60s were 2H or 12H-T) but here in Australia, BJ40/BJ42 had the downward pointing oil filter where as BJ70/BJ73 (after 11/1984) was upward. It might have changed in 60s at the same time.

Just for clarity, the circled plug is the insulated superglow wiring lug.

As for the old IP pump vs newer, Numbers read;
1981 - 22100-58030 (may not be original?) ToyoDIY.com
1986 - 22100-58022 ToyoDIY.com

 

[SuperDuperCruizer]

If you're using the newer transmission and it has the bearing retainer with the oilers (ears) then there may be some clearance issues with the cast iron bell housing. Not something that can't be addressed with a grinder if there is an issue.

 

[dkyuss]

As for the old IP pump vs newer, Numbers read;
1981 - 22100-58030 (may not be original?) ToyoDIY.com
1986 - 22100-58022 ToyoDIY.com

Anyone able to comment on differences in IP pumps? If any?