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I'm trying to imagine what caused that failure. There doesn't seem to be obvious damage to the top of the piston like you would expect if something was dropped into the hole. I'd like to see the bottom of the head. Where is the rest of the piston? Is it in one piece in the block still?
Here is the problem (from what we know at this point): Nothing yet posted has indicated at what LEVEL the matter has been discussed. It is NOT accurate to say the 'dealer' has taken any particular position. Only that someone, at some level (probably the Service Manager, Maybe as high as the General Manager, but possibly as low as the Service Writer) is trying to deny responsibility.
While these employees 'work' for the DEALERSHIP, they don't necessarily represent the 'dealership' in matters of grave importance. So UNTIL you hear from the TOP (General Manager, Owner) in no uncertain terms...then I consider this type of thing to be in its infancy and VERY much open to negotiation.
IF the OP jumps the gun (as some here want to do), he might well open himself up to a defamation suit, if he goes to social media with it.
This incident (while serious) needs to go through proper channels and all efforts to negotiate a solution be exhausted. That is the PROPER way to do things.....period!
The OP has a very strong case based solely on the physical evidence. There is no way in hell....he drove in there with a separated piston being the cause of the misfire.
A regional manager will probably sort this out in quick fashion IF the higher ups at the dealership don't do so first. They may not even be aware of it yet.
When (and only when) the issue is concluded....is posting on social media appropriate (good or bad). It so unfortunate that we have a generation both quick and willing to indite (or even judge) 'online' with little or no evidence.
Let it play out folks.
I had an unfortunate incident at another manufacturers dealership. Contacting and speaking with the dealership's management and coming to a resolution I was happy with was remarkably easy (I was expecting a fight). I'd recommend that as a first step. Then entertain all of the other ideas presented.
Worst case, you take the truck home, buy a running engine for 1k and some beer, have a few mudders over and swap it.
Worst case, you take the truck home, buy a running engine for 1k and some beer, have a few mudders over and swap it.
If legal in your state, start recording phone calls (get an app for your cell phone). Document everything. And you're gonna be out a Cruiser for a while...
Yes, definitely document everything.
When I had my issue with Lexus, I have a good long notes, who call whom, who I spoke with, time, date, summary what we discussed. I have detailed notes so when I speak to the next guy, I can say "My notes say that so and so say this when last time we spoke which was x time y date blah blah". I think this raises my credibility, and I am not just someone they can push around and give different info at different time. And I also make sure I ask in the middle of conversation, something like, would you repeat that again, so I can write this down. This tell them you are taking notes.
In this case, I would try to get to see the car, and take lots of detailed pictures of the failure. I am sure someone on this board can help narrow down the cause of failure or even pin point it, if you post detailed pics.
Good luck, and sorry to hear this.
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^^^^^^ That's what I'd want to see too. The rest of the piston is either still attached to the connecting rod (highly unlikely) or in little pieces in the bottom end. The piston is broken right at the piston pin bore, so some amount of the pin bore and most of the piston skirt separated from the top of the piston.
Depending upon how far the piston skirt projects below the cylinder bore, the remains of the lower part of the piston would drop into the bottom of the engine (to be eaten up by the crank) or is lodged in the bottom of the cylinder (not likely) with the connecting rod doing lord knows what. NO WAY you would not hear this....NO WAY!
Also, the engine would have been running on 7 cylinders...which anyone would have noticed right away. The tech at the dealership surmised that the piston might have been operating in the bore due to 'pressure' in the cylinder. NOPE! Not after the first the intake stroke. Pressure at the first powerstroke yes. Then IF the bottom of the piston were still there (and still attached to the connecting rod), it could force the top of the piston back up the cylinder on the exhaust stroke (but you'd hear the collision). Next is the intake stroke, BUT since the top of the piston is no longer connected to the connecting rod it can't go back down the cylinder (draws in no air, only gets the fuel from the injector), next stroke would be the compression stroke, but again, no air to compress because the piston top was just sitting at the top of the cylinder bore. NO fire, no compression, no pressure.
That is why the idea the engine was running this way is laughable....and once presented to anyone with a 'Clue', they will be forced to admit the damage was their fault....or at least happened under their care.
I can't think what the dealer had done could of caused this, not saying they are not at fault but this is very strange. With no damage to the top of the piston, the only thing I can think is that it hydrolocked, maybe they used some fluid when carrying out the repair for lubrication. These pictures are very select, so I would go there and take as many pictures as possible and post them on here.
Hydrolock, I can't think of any other way to break a piston in that manner with no physical evidence of impact on the piston face. And that could ONLY have happened there, as it was running when you parked it at the dealer.
I know most people in the thread think it couldn't have run well with that broken piston but I'm starting to wonder if it couldn't have happened before the truck came to the dealer. Some thoughts...
1) Every piston photo I find on the internet that looks like this happened at high loads and revs. That doesn't seem likely to have happened while at the dealer with a stripped plug hole but is consistent with the OP's use before the engine threw a code.
2) Speaking of the plug hole. How did that happen in the first place? Could the broken piston have smashed the sparkplug?
3) V8s run perfectly well on 7 cylinders.
4) If the top half of the piston stuck at TDC just shy of the valves and the bottom half stayed friendly with the wrist pin the engine might have run pretty smoothly.
5) the bottom half of the piston likely has a gaping hole so the intake stroke wouldn't have drawn the top half down into the bore.
1) Every piston photo I find on the internet that looks like this happened at high loads and revs. That doesn't seem likely to have happened while at the dealer with a stripped plug hole but is consistent with the OP's use before the engine threw a code.
2) Speaking of the plug hole. How did that happen in the first place? Could the broken piston have smashed the sparkplug?
3) V8s run perfectly well on 7 cylinders.
4) If the top half of the piston stuck at TDC just shy of the valves and the bottom half stayed friendly with the wrist pin the engine might have run pretty smoothly.
5) the bottom half of the piston likely has a gaping hole so the intake stroke wouldn't have drawn the top half down into the bore.
If the piston smashed the plug we'd see some kind of indication of the impact, right?
You need to see a picture of the con rod in the cylinder, if the piston skirt has separated from it then the con rod would just get smashed around the cylinder. You would hear this most definitely if that was the case. I can't see how it could of stayed attached for more than a split second, but I could be proven wrong. Just need more pictures...
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- #53
Latest update: I met with the GM and they now said it happened while they had it. Their position is that they did not cause it, it's an older engine and it was most likely detonation. He has waived all labor to replace the engine. They also waived the $1300 they had on me for what they have in it so I can go get it if I want to. A lot of good that does me. Anyhow they had previously quoted a 170,000 mile engine for 4K. I requested they try harder so they are looking. Anyone know of a used engine or good places to look? I will search other threads as well. Again I appreciate it.
- Thread starter
- #56
Lowenbrau your post is most consistent with where the dealers stands.
Signs of Pre-ignition and/or Detonation should be present on the spark plug...if it occurred for any length of time.
It is a possibility however.
Hope the Dealership will work with you on it.
To get a dealer GM to say this is good. They don't do this regularly, if ever, and usually only after a lawyer is involved. I believe you're half way there. I've been down this road in Ca. and In La. Maintaining an amicable relationship with the dealer is preferred.
After what he told you your next step should be engine R/R with like kind. Your same argument still stands. It drove when I came in, and now it's destroyed. Make it right. They are somewhat in a corner if you push a little more I believe.
Forums are notorious for not making public all the facts though. But seriously I think you'll be fine.
Suing them if conditions/relationships deteriorate is a lengthy process, even if you do win. I would avoid that if possible. Been there done that, and won. But it's still a lose lose all around. You will look back on this and realize the mistakes that have been made.
Proceed with the best available information in the present. That's all you can do. Two years from now maybe you'll laugh about it.
I do.
You're not alone my friend.
