100 - Series Engine Failure - Help (1 Viewer)

[rahjr1]

Hey All -

Newbie here, I have been on the site and enjoyed it. First post but its a big one for me I need to ask for help/advice. I purchased a 2004 Cruiser 2.5 years ago with about 88,000 miles. Most of the service records came with it, with timing belt service being done shortly before I purchased it. I have always wanted this truck and loved every minute of it. I suddenly have a huge problem and was hoping someone could lend an ear and have any advice or opinions.
My family and I were loaded up in the truck to head home after Christmas. Backing out of driveway it stuttered and the CEL came on with VSC TRAK and VSC OFF lights. Took it in to the dealer, kept it under 40mph and didnt notice any issues/noises while driving it in. The code was Cylinder 8 misfire and here is what unfolded:
Delear said the plug was jammed in the cylinder and somehow not really threaded. They suspected it was arching/using threads as ground this whole time so it "glassed" the threads of cylinder. They tried a tap and die, failed, moved on to Helicoil which they could not get to seat either. Finally they said the bottom part of helcoil fell in the cylinder head and that nothing else was going to work. I was told I need a new cylinder head. Two weeks later I am told the used head is finally in and they will begin the replacement. I get a call the next day and the dealer tells me that when they removed the cylinder head the piston under cylinder 8 was broken and I need a new engine. They say they have never seen this before and have no idea how I drove it in there, however it was preexisting and perhaps the pressure in the cylinder kept the piston in place. Again I have not had a single engine issue in the 2+ years I have owned it.
Sorry for long post; but does this sound possible? Could I have driven around with a separated piston at the ringlands and not know it? Secondly any suggestions on new/used engines? They quoted me $3,800, material, for a used with 170,000 on it. That's more then I have on my current dead engine. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Attached are pics of the piston. Thanks!!

 

[unfast]

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[DirtDawg]

Are you getting the whole story from the dealership? It's very peculiar that you go from good running engine > bad seated spark plug > broken piston. I've never seen an engine run with a broken piston and not damage anything else. How does the rod & cylinder wall look in that cylinder? I'm just perplexed by everything they told you and the breakage that occurred. Especially how the piston skirt and wrist pin mount are just gone.

Honestly I would try to find someone else to finish the work, and I know that's difficult because they've already dug in so far. $4k for a used engine with 170k on it is not a good deal. You can find these 2UZs with 150k on them all day for $1-2k. All the 2UZs from tundras, sequoias, LX, LC, and 4runners will swap in. Straight swap except for oil filter housing and a few other things.

 

[PLROD]

call me a conspiracy theorist but I would never trust a dealer enough to proceed the way you did w/o getting a second opinion. you're now up a $hit$ creek w/o a paddle. depending on how much you have in repairs at this point at the dealer, your best option may be to pay them, take the truck and park it and look for alternative engine replacement quotes. good luck.

 

[rahjr1]

Appreciate the responses. A decision I will always regret. It was 1 pm new years eve and we were out of town. Had to get my family home, dealer was open until 6. They said bring it in and we can probably get you on road today. That's how it started. So my truck is a dealership 3.5 hours away from me. The dealer has given no reason for a cause, just that they have never seen it before. The second mechanic that looked at it said the cracks in piston are fresh, no signs of old oil, (I am learning as I go) and that the damage in the cylinder is new. He's calling foul and says million dollar question is if the rod is bent and cracked at the top, which would mean hydrostatic lock and would have to be the dealers actions that caused it. He said the damage in cylinder looks to be as if it only cycled a couple of times. I am just trying to determine if I have a solid ground to continue to dispute this. I don't feel the dealer is telling the whole story, even from the original cylinder head issue. I cant imagine I could drive with a piston in that kind of shape. If I take it now I owe $1,300 for their work thus far. They are still claiming they did not do it, but have backed down to I buy the engine for $3,800 and they take care of the labor. Still though I go from 130,000 on my engine to 170,000 on this one they propose. The thing I was most excited about was driving this thing for years. Thanks again for the help guys, I know some of my questions may sound dumb but I am literally in a he said she said with not much mechanical knowledge outside of google. The dealer can talk circles around me when I confront them on the phone.

 

[DirtDawg]

They blew your engine. You need to dispute this and have them foot the bill. There is no way the damage was there when you DROVE it to their dealership for them to check it out.

I'm assuming they botched something when trying to use the helicoil and then once they got it together they fired it up and debris in the cylinder blew it. And now they think your uneducated enough for them to get away with it.

 

[abuck99]

^ tend to agree;

Like someone (porter, service writer or another tech) started the engine to move the truck out of the service bay whilst waiting for the parts not knowing it's status that something fell into the cylinder and hadn't been recovered, piston got stuck on debris and cherynobled.

Your going to have to fight them on this- and do not accept an engine with higher miles than yours- even if it's free.

 

[re_guderian]

Where is the truck located? Would help to get referrals to legitimate shops that won't try and screw you over...

 

[Sandroad]

The engine would not have run with the piston like that. The piston damage was done at the dealership by something they did. I just hope the original problem wasn't simply a bad coil pack. Any mechanic would support the claim the engine would not have run with the broken piston and since the truck was driven to the dealership the damage had to be done there.

 

[tabraha]

You would've heard a rod/piston flopping around in a cylinder. I hate to accuse the dealer of negligence but I don't see how you could've driven it there and not heard anything and I also don't think they would've given you the initial diagnosis they did and completely missed a rod banging around in the cylinder. I wish you luck in working something out with them but I would imagine it will be tough to have a burden of proof to hold them to anything.

May want to talk to Glen at Lextech in West Ashley to see if he has a line on a used 4.7 or what he would charge to swap an engine in.

 

[PLROD]

all I can say is wow. you should post the name of this dealer, they blew up your engine from the looks of what you've posted. you need a lawyer friend to make a phone call for you and kick this can up the totem pole and make some noise - you are being screwed imo.

 

[4Beast]

i would at least take this to small claims court, and bring a reputable mechanic, even if you have to compensate him for his time. It certainly appears that the dealer screwed something up and created/exacerbated the problem, and you shouldn't have to foot the bill.

 

[abuck99]

all I can say is wow. you should post the name of this dealer, they blew up your engine from the looks of what you've posted. you need a lawyer friend to make a phone call for you and kick this can up the totem pole and make some noise - you are being screwed imo.

Yep- time to utilize some legal leverage to advocate for you and escalate the problem to exec. mgmt at the dealership. The service manager does not want to bring this to the GM, or owners, for obvious reasons.

 

[caslim]

Agreed. I call bogus. I've never heard of an engine being able to run with a piston and rod busted like that.

 

[OverLand Cruisers]

You would've heard a rod/piston flopping around in a cylinder. I hate to accuse the dealer of negligence but I don't see how you could've driven it there and not heard anything and I also don't think they would've given you the initial diagnosis they did and completely missed a rod banging around in the cylinder. I wish you luck in working something out with them but I would imagine it will be tough to have a burden of proof to hold them to anything.

X a bunch

An option may be to pay the dealership (with a credit card) and immediately get the truck someplace reputable.
The minute you pay dispute the charges with your credit card company and let them handle it.
This plan of course revolves around your credit card company being willing to fight these guys (Amex is quite good).

The whole small claims court route is almost a no-go due to the time hack and other hassles.

Best of luck!!

 

[BlueWeim]

Toyota 4.7 liter complete motor

this is about 10 minutes from my house. will be in charleston in a week or so hauling an FJ i did some work on for a friend over there. Ill be happy to look at this and buy it for you and haul it over when i come if your interetested in it.

I'd fight the hell out of that because i really dont think it would be possible for you to pull that in there, and them diagnose the problem as something somewhat simple. hell its not your fault they screwed up the helicoil in the first place requiring the new head. small claims will suck and by the end of it you wont make anything with the fees unless you have a mechanic friend and lawyer friend. its all about if you want to make a point or just looking to get your truck back without being screwed anymore. either way report to BBB at the end of it all.

 

[PLROD]

squeeky wheel gets the grease. i'm mad just reading your story. they will take advantage of you unless you get yourself an advocate, be that a mechanic, a lawyer, a friend who is technically capable of having a conversation with them and call their bs what it is; do not accept their bs.

IMO, it needs to stay where it is until you get some closure/settlement. You're out the truck right now; I wouldn't move it just yet.

 

[savirc]

No way that truck moved an inch with the piston like that. That was a crank start and a bang. Dealer did it.

 

[04UZJ100]

No way you drove it like that. Based on your description of rough running, you had a legit misfire. You would have heard something seriously mechanically wrong if a rod was just flapping around in the cylinder - and that's if the thing ran.

 

[PLROD]

If I were you, I'd buy that 500 engine that someone posted above and tell them they can install it for you at no charge. Whatever you tell them, don't tell them how much you paid. Arrange for the seller to drop it off at a nearby shop that does engine work (you'll have to do the leg work for this but that should be easy with members on this site and the web, pay them a fee to check it out and give it their blessing w/compression tests etc., then have them strap it to a pallet and ship it to them; you'll be out around 800 and they should be happy to get rid of the problem. If you don't think you can sell this to the $tealer, find an attorney that can. It may cost you something but it's probably your best way to proceed. Find an attorney in the jurisdiction of the $tealer.