Project Lazarus: Bringing an LX470 back from the dead (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LJE
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LJE
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- Thread starter
- #23
Well, had a setback yesterday. Went and picked up the 'new' (67K) Tundra engine from the salvage yard, got it home, inspected it, and then took it back.
First red flag was these scratches - maybe I'm overreacting, but those definitely look like they go through the cross hatch. I also noticed the crosshatching looked really thin down near the bottom of these two cylinders. You can sorta see that on the right of the bottom photo:
When I got the engine, the crank was at a position where Cylinders #1 and #3 were at/near TDC, and the two photos above are of cylinders #5 and #7. Cylinders #2 and #6 both looked good.
Then, I took the valve covers off - no visible wear on any of the cam lobes, but looking at this picture now, you can see some gunk on the cams lobes - it wiped off, but probably shouldn't be there... The VC's were only held on by 2 bolts each, and you can see several of the old bolts were snapped off.
Then, I started checking cam caps - and found this:
You definitely could catch a fingernail (gloved, even...) in that groove in the middle. The next one I took off I found a shaving under. Again, maybe I'm overreacting, but that looks like this might have ran with it being pretty low on oil.
As soon as I got it home, I had put a little diesel in each cylinder just so that I could crank it by hand without fear of doing any damage - at this point, it had been about half an hour, so I I figured it'd had time to soak. I slowly cranked it by hand so that I could see the cylinders that had been near TDC previously. Cylinder #3 was the first one I checked, and it was gross. I didn't grab any photos from the borescope, but it was all sorts of crusty/rusty/brown gunk everywhere.
All the above was more than enough for me to say 'nope, not this one!' so I took it back and got a refund. When I called ahead and nicely explained my situation (since they claim a 60 day guarantee), the guy I talked to was pretty rude and stated 'I gave you the best 2UZ we had in the yard - what did you expect from a 20 year old engine?' and told me to expect the 20% restock fee (~$180, since it was $900 total). I didn't say it, but I know for a fact (because I've looked...) the 21 year old cylinders on my Sequoia with 253K on it look better than that! But fine, whatever, $180 isn't fun, but I'll suck it up as a learning fee here.
However, once I actually got to the yard, the owner/manager/someone with authority happened to be walking by as they were processing it and was like 'oh man, we'll definitely give you a full refund on that one', so I ended up losing nothing but ~5ish hours. Again, I'll take this all as part of a learning opportunity for what I need to look for next time.
As a side note, after getting home and doing more research here on MUD, I noticed that just about everyone who has replaced a 2UZ here ended up buying two engines - the first to learn what to look for, and then the second to actually put in hahaha. At least I'm not alone?
At this point, I think the best course of action is to pull the old engine out first, assess the crank/cam bearing journals and check the heads for warpage, and then maybe talk to a machine shop about rebuilding this one. I know, I know, that goes against the traditional advice given here, however, we've got a really good machine shop here in town that folks have told me is really affordable. I've had a couple buddies (one of which is both a fellow mechanical engineer and happens to build/race methanol dragsters) who have been very impressed with this shop. I figure it's at least worth getting a quote from while I investigate other potential 2UZ's around me...
First red flag was these scratches - maybe I'm overreacting, but those definitely look like they go through the cross hatch. I also noticed the crosshatching looked really thin down near the bottom of these two cylinders. You can sorta see that on the right of the bottom photo:
When I got the engine, the crank was at a position where Cylinders #1 and #3 were at/near TDC, and the two photos above are of cylinders #5 and #7. Cylinders #2 and #6 both looked good.
Then, I took the valve covers off - no visible wear on any of the cam lobes, but looking at this picture now, you can see some gunk on the cams lobes - it wiped off, but probably shouldn't be there... The VC's were only held on by 2 bolts each, and you can see several of the old bolts were snapped off.
Then, I started checking cam caps - and found this:
You definitely could catch a fingernail (gloved, even...) in that groove in the middle. The next one I took off I found a shaving under. Again, maybe I'm overreacting, but that looks like this might have ran with it being pretty low on oil.
As soon as I got it home, I had put a little diesel in each cylinder just so that I could crank it by hand without fear of doing any damage - at this point, it had been about half an hour, so I I figured it'd had time to soak. I slowly cranked it by hand so that I could see the cylinders that had been near TDC previously. Cylinder #3 was the first one I checked, and it was gross. I didn't grab any photos from the borescope, but it was all sorts of crusty/rusty/brown gunk everywhere.
All the above was more than enough for me to say 'nope, not this one!' so I took it back and got a refund. When I called ahead and nicely explained my situation (since they claim a 60 day guarantee), the guy I talked to was pretty rude and stated 'I gave you the best 2UZ we had in the yard - what did you expect from a 20 year old engine?' and told me to expect the 20% restock fee (~$180, since it was $900 total). I didn't say it, but I know for a fact (because I've looked...) the 21 year old cylinders on my Sequoia with 253K on it look better than that! But fine, whatever, $180 isn't fun, but I'll suck it up as a learning fee here.
However, once I actually got to the yard, the owner/manager/someone with authority happened to be walking by as they were processing it and was like 'oh man, we'll definitely give you a full refund on that one', so I ended up losing nothing but ~5ish hours. Again, I'll take this all as part of a learning opportunity for what I need to look for next time.
As a side note, after getting home and doing more research here on MUD, I noticed that just about everyone who has replaced a 2UZ here ended up buying two engines - the first to learn what to look for, and then the second to actually put in hahaha. At least I'm not alone?
At this point, I think the best course of action is to pull the old engine out first, assess the crank/cam bearing journals and check the heads for warpage, and then maybe talk to a machine shop about rebuilding this one. I know, I know, that goes against the traditional advice given here, however, we've got a really good machine shop here in town that folks have told me is really affordable. I've had a couple buddies (one of which is both a fellow mechanical engineer and happens to build/race methanol dragsters) who have been very impressed with this shop. I figure it's at least worth getting a quote from while I investigate other potential 2UZ's around me...
Did the lid close easily and fit sung, with the 3/32" sq. cord?With the time I had available today, I spent it mostly cleaning up the garage/shop in preparation for pulling the engine out. I also spent a little time replacing the gasket that seals the lid of the fuse box - it was entirely dried up and more brittle than dried spaghetti. Definitely wouldn't do much to keep dust/water out for sure.
The gasket isn't a part that you can order separate from the lid (or do you have to order an entire fuse box? I can't remember...). However, I found a post somewhere here on MUD where a helpful user (@05JLX470 ) stated it's just a 3/32" square gasket. I ordered 10 ft (the minimum order...) from Zoro for something like $9.50 shipped. Super quick and easy!
You can see part of the gasket that is laying in the left of the fuse box:
View attachment 3592067
And here's the rest of the gasket left in the lid - it just shattered into pieces trying to get it out with a pick:
View attachment 3592068
Here's the gasket material I used:
View attachment 3592065
And this is what it looks like:
View attachment 3592066
Pick a spot to start at and just make your way around:
I realized that I forgot to get a picture of the gasket once trimmed and fully installed - but I figure you can use your imagination, haha. Just cut it a little long and trim it down to get a perfect fit when you butt the two ends.
Here's a picture I grabbed with the lid reinstalled. It's amazing the contrast between the (uncleaned) fuse block body and the cleaned/conditions lid, haha:
I also had a chance to disconnect the engine harness from the ECU and pull it out. RELEASE THE KRAKEN! hahaha.
At this point, I just need to dismount the AC compressor (sounds like I should be able to leave the AC system all connected, just need to pull the compressor off the engine) and then disconnect the motor mounts and I (think) it should all be ready to pull out! I'm going to review the FSM again to make sure I'm not missing anything though.
I see it has a Durometer 70A. Which is between tire tread and the heel of shoe on hardness scale.
Finding a good 4.7L is not easy.
When I bought my first engine, it was cheap. 130K mile, $500 all in to my door, with transmission included. It too was a bad one, with water in intake ports. So really began doing homework. One thing I learned was, the USA made 4.7L 2UZ-fe Had issue with rod knock/piston slap. Toyota tick they call it! So I concentrated on finding, made in Japan (100 series, GX, 4 Runner). Second thing, don't listen to seller, let VIN # speak!
Borescope is a great tool. But it requires, hands on inspection. Which more or less, limits search area.
I approach, as if doing PPO or a used LC/LX470. Doing a remote inspection first. Asking for pictures of engine, including VIN plate.
Using VIN to check service history with Toyota/Lexus. If that looks good, I pull a carfax.
I look for red flags:
- Lack of good OF&L or air filter history.
- Coolant system issues or lack of proper PM.
- Starter R&R or any service requiring intake manifold removed. Concern is, sand dropping in intake ports/cylinders.
- Any service more than just a PM.
- Fresh kill (recently insurance total). Best, if not sitting around long. Most import, it not sat around outside with hood off.
LJE
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #28
Yeah - like we were talking about via email - definitely a lot of things you need to pay attention to when looking for a replacement engine!
I took a quick peak under one of the valve covers of the current (blown) engine - looks pretty clean with minimal varnish. I pulled one of the cam caps and it looked/felt good too, so maybe a candidate for a rebuild. We'll see once I get it all the way out of the vehicle.
I pulled the compressor off (left the lines connected) and disconnected the last line from the power steering pump to the rack, so I think at this point it's just motor mounts that I need to unbolt. I noticed that the transmission is already starting to separate from the engine, so at least the dowel pins aren't corroded in place! Once I get the motor mounts unbolted (and take one last good look underneath) I'll pull the front wheels off and lower the front to give myself some more room. My buddy and I went halfsies on a 2-ton engine lift, so it's got some good reach at max extension (500 lbs - so still enough for the 2UZ!)
FSM recommends, pulling engine with A/T connected as one. But I left my A/T in, separating it from engine before pulling. As I had concerns, with my lack of space in shop.
You may have notice one black bolt, holding flex plate to Torque Converter (TC). Which is simple the alignment bolt, which goes in first during install. This black bolt, has a shoulders, that aligns flex plate for all other bolts. Which really aids, when installing bolts through inspection plate. Install one black bolt then spin crank to install next.
I had removed the 6 bolts from flex plate holding it to TC, prior to pulling engine. But TC pilot shaft, was frozen in crankshaft. So TC came out with engine. OH well!
I've very limited room on all side and above. Not wanting to remove hood, creating more work. I tied up the hood using a pulley as pivot point. In such a way, so I could roll vehicle back once engine lifted if needed. But I found I could simply, roll engine hoist around to side.
Using a jack to supporting A/T. I was able to raise and lower, to aid in alignment while removing and installing engine.
You may have notice one black bolt, holding flex plate to Torque Converter (TC). Which is simple the alignment bolt, which goes in first during install. This black bolt, has a shoulders, that aligns flex plate for all other bolts. Which really aids, when installing bolts through inspection plate. Install one black bolt then spin crank to install next.
I had removed the 6 bolts from flex plate holding it to TC, prior to pulling engine. But TC pilot shaft, was frozen in crankshaft. So TC came out with engine. OH well!
I've very limited room on all side and above. Not wanting to remove hood, creating more work. I tied up the hood using a pulley as pivot point. In such a way, so I could roll vehicle back once engine lifted if needed. But I found I could simply, roll engine hoist around to side.
Using a jack to supporting A/T. I was able to raise and lower, to aid in alignment while removing and installing engine.
LJE
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #30
Well, got the engine out yesterday!
I haven't had time to tear into it yet - I'm about to go on travel for work, so it'll be a week and a half before I can really do much I think.
I did notice that the torque converter was a Precision of New Hampton (goPNH.com). That leads me to believe that the transmission was rebuilt at some point - good, bad, indifferent? Who knows. Not a whole lot of info on PNH torque converters on the web, so I'm not sure if they're decent or not (which might give some indication to overall quality of the rebuild). I guess we'll see once it get everything back together and running.
I haven't had time to tear into it yet - I'm about to go on travel for work, so it'll be a week and a half before I can really do much I think.
I did notice that the torque converter was a Precision of New Hampton (goPNH.com). That leads me to believe that the transmission was rebuilt at some point - good, bad, indifferent? Who knows. Not a whole lot of info on PNH torque converters on the web, so I'm not sure if they're decent or not (which might give some indication to overall quality of the rebuild). I guess we'll see once it get everything back together and running.
LJE
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- Thread starter
- #31
I promise that I'm not dead - I've just been on travel a whole bunch for work (and it's not slowing down either!)
But, I'm making progress very slowly - I'll just leave the below photo as a teaser. Would you look at how shiny this engine is? Almost as if it's been sitting in a tech school for the past couple decades...
But, I'm making progress very slowly - I'll just leave the below photo as a teaser. Would you look at how shiny this engine is? Almost as if it's been sitting in a tech school for the past couple decades...
Great to see an old LC getting the love and a chance at a better second life 
