Remember, east coast air is cleaner too....
Ordered the injectors today (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter landtank
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- Thread starter
- #42
PDoyle said:
not when it rains.
semlin
curmudgeon
Or when it blows
Rick for the benefit of those about to do this could you be more specific about what grommits came with the injectors. Manafre's site lists some parts for which they charge extra but I think I am going to order all from Dan unless it is included in the base $168 rate. Did anything come for free?
Also, in talking to a couple of local outfits doing this, one recommended bringing in the rail itself for cleaning at no extra charge and one said that was not needed. Any comment?
Rick for the benefit of those about to do this could you be more specific about what grommits came with the injectors. Manafre's site lists some parts for which they charge extra but I think I am going to order all from Dan unless it is included in the base $168 rate. Did anything come for free?
Also, in talking to a couple of local outfits doing this, one recommended bringing in the rail itself for cleaning at no extra charge and one said that was not needed. Any comment?
- Thread starter
- #44
What I would suggest is a set of gaskets for the banjo bolt and the seals where the injectors enter the manifold. The rest came with the injectors. I also replaced my fuel regulator because it had 165k on it and I was there.
I'd skip the rail cleaning, the passages are pretty darn big and doubt any amount of varnish would impact the flow.
I'd skip the rail cleaning, the passages are pretty darn big and doubt any amount of varnish would impact the flow.
semlin
curmudgeon
thanks Rick, sorry to pester but according to their pricelist on their website MAF charges extra for some parts in addition to the $168. I plan to buy those extra parts from Dan. Are those the parts you mean that came with your injectors or are there some parts that were included for $168?
http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa/calibratedinjectorsets.htm
http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa/calibratedinjectorsets.htm
- Thread starter
- #46
Sorry but I'm on Long Island right now. Maybe Dan can help out. If you look at the pick the O-ring is under the red cap and the grommet is also visible just below the cap. What is needed is the seal that the opposite end of the injector plugs into at the intake manifold.
I won't be home until late tommorow but id Dan hasn't jumped in I'll look at my invoice and post up.
I won't be home until late tommorow but id Dan hasn't jumped in I'll look at my invoice and post up.
Nice,
Did some rough math
In the summer I average high 14's to low 15's. Say 15, at 25K miles per year & $2.30 per gal that is $3,833 for a years worth of fuel,
If I were to repeat Ricks success and get 16 that would be $3593 a $240 savings.
Not sure what the total for everything including parts from Dan was but I would assume it is not over $240? Getting a smoother running engine and the work eventually pays for itself sounds good to me. I guess the gains depend on how bad your injectors were to start with though.
Did some rough math
In the summer I average high 14's to low 15's. Say 15, at 25K miles per year & $2.30 per gal that is $3,833 for a years worth of fuel,
If I were to repeat Ricks success and get 16 that would be $3593 a $240 savings.
Not sure what the total for everything including parts from Dan was but I would assume it is not over $240? Getting a smoother running engine and the work eventually pays for itself sounds good to me. I guess the gains depend on how bad your injectors were to start with though.
- Thread starter
- #48
Semlin, those insulators ( 23291-41010 ) are what is needed besides the Banjo Bolt gaskets to do the job.
I waited for the ride home to post my final MPG results as it did seem a little high but after 3 long runs which all included some stop and go and some around town driving, I'm at a stable 16.9 MPG. That's an increase of 1.7 MPG or about 11%, Considering I spent $600.00 in fuel last month, these things are going to pay for themselves in no time.
I waited for the ride home to post my final MPG results as it did seem a little high but after 3 long runs which all included some stop and go and some around town driving, I'm at a stable 16.9 MPG. That's an increase of 1.7 MPG or about 11%, Considering I spent $600.00 in fuel last month, these things are going to pay for themselves in no time.
landtank said:
What other "snake oils" have you been using
to get your milage up, magnets, slick50, titaniumuiunum pills in the fuel tank 
?Don't have another COW
Still kidding 
Let up in on what else you have done to HELP you milage.
semlin
curmudgeon
ow my eyes! Kurt, we may have to revoke your emoticon licence if you keep this up
thanks for the info Rick.
thanks for the info Rick.
This injector work is a very standard procedure and can be done competently by any injector service specialist. They're quite common - available in any large city and in most anywhere that has service enterprises for diesel trucks. A lot depends on the technician and some of the best of those can be found in the most uninspiring shops. The test bench is expensive so it's common that an automotive service shop will contract the work and charge what they feel the market will bear. That's what's happening here - subcontracting - middlemen. Best prices are at the diesel shop.
In the interest of real fuel cost reduction I would think that every owner would seek the very best price available for what is a standard service rather than pay extraordinary prices because of the blah blah in a website.
Also, having this done is not a one time modification. As soon as an injector is run it's flow characteristics will change from what was tested and it will continue to erode. This is a periodic expense advisable for any fuel injected engine.
I'd suspect that the bulk of the improvement shown here is a result of the new fuel regulator, BTW, and not just because the injectors are clean and balanced. The smooth running is a result of the injector work.
In the interest of real fuel cost reduction I would think that every owner would seek the very best price available for what is a standard service rather than pay extraordinary prices because of the blah blah in a website.
Also, having this done is not a one time modification. As soon as an injector is run it's flow characteristics will change from what was tested and it will continue to erode. This is a periodic expense advisable for any fuel injected engine.
I'd suspect that the bulk of the improvement shown here is a result of the new fuel regulator, BTW, and not just because the injectors are clean and balanced. The smooth running is a result of the injector work.
The odyssey has ended! I have the injectors back in … finally.
Before and after injector performance (odom: 105k miles):
Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) P P P P P P
Test 2. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor) G G G G G G
Test 3. 60 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 81 82 81 80 80 81 0 0
Test 4. 100mL Pulsed Volume 99 100 99 98 98 100 0 0
Test 5. 20 Second Static Flow (mL) 116 115 115 114 114 116 0 0
Test 6. 100mL Static Flow 100 99 99 98 98 100 0 0
Test Results After Service
Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) P P P P P P
Test 2. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor) G G G G G G
Test 3. 60 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 83 83 83 82 84 84 0 0
Test 4. 100mL Pulsed Volume 99 99 99 98 100 100 0 0
Test 5. 20 Second Static Flow (mL) 117 116 116 116 116 117 0 0
Test 6. 100mL Static Flow 100 99 99 99 99 100 0 0
Driving Impressions: While the rig seems to move out a bit quicker, I do not observe any other changes in how the engine runs or sounds. Even what I observe as a bit quicker acceleration could just be my imagination. Given the before injector performance numbers, this is as it should be I would think.
Using Cruizin Performance to clean the injectors? Great service. I would not hesitate to use this company again.
Other thoughts: Be very careful when handling any of the connectors. Boy, these things are fragile. I managed to break a couple of them, one of which was for an injector.
The only hiccup, and it really threw me for a loop, was that the number 6 cylinder did not fire after everything was put back together. This was confirmed with an OBD reader and an engine that ran like crap. The number 6 cylinder was also the connector that I had broke and soldered another in its place. After checking the integrity of the soldered wires, the health of the injector, all of which checked out, I put the engine back together to have the problem persist.
I figured it must have been a wire cross into the injector connector. Nope. This was not the problem. After much pondering and review, I noticed back next to the firewall, the injector farthest away from the front of the engine, another connector that had apparently broke and was completely disconnected from its respective injector.
This was, as it turns out, the culprit of the misfire. Why the Toyo OBD identified that the number 6 cylinder was the problem, when it was not, I do not know. Perhaps it has to do with the algorithm used to detect a misfire? Maybe the FSM is misprinted and it really is the number 6 cylinder? My rig is a 95 and from what I understand, a cross over year from the OBD I to the required OBD II for 1996 year and beyond. Perhaps this has something to do with it?
Anyway, she is back together and ready for another summer of wheeling with twice as nice injectors.
Before and after injector performance (odom: 105k miles):
Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) P P P P P P
Test 2. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor) G G G G G G
Test 3. 60 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 81 82 81 80 80 81 0 0
Test 4. 100mL Pulsed Volume 99 100 99 98 98 100 0 0
Test 5. 20 Second Static Flow (mL) 116 115 115 114 114 116 0 0
Test 6. 100mL Static Flow 100 99 99 98 98 100 0 0
Test Results After Service
Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) P P P P P P
Test 2. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor) G G G G G G
Test 3. 60 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 83 83 83 82 84 84 0 0
Test 4. 100mL Pulsed Volume 99 99 99 98 100 100 0 0
Test 5. 20 Second Static Flow (mL) 117 116 116 116 116 117 0 0
Test 6. 100mL Static Flow 100 99 99 99 99 100 0 0
Driving Impressions: While the rig seems to move out a bit quicker, I do not observe any other changes in how the engine runs or sounds. Even what I observe as a bit quicker acceleration could just be my imagination. Given the before injector performance numbers, this is as it should be I would think.
Using Cruizin Performance to clean the injectors? Great service. I would not hesitate to use this company again.
Other thoughts: Be very careful when handling any of the connectors. Boy, these things are fragile. I managed to break a couple of them, one of which was for an injector.
The only hiccup, and it really threw me for a loop, was that the number 6 cylinder did not fire after everything was put back together. This was confirmed with an OBD reader and an engine that ran like crap. The number 6 cylinder was also the connector that I had broke and soldered another in its place. After checking the integrity of the soldered wires, the health of the injector, all of which checked out, I put the engine back together to have the problem persist.
I figured it must have been a wire cross into the injector connector. Nope. This was not the problem. After much pondering and review, I noticed back next to the firewall, the injector farthest away from the front of the engine, another connector that had apparently broke and was completely disconnected from its respective injector.
This was, as it turns out, the culprit of the misfire. Why the Toyo OBD identified that the number 6 cylinder was the problem, when it was not, I do not know. Perhaps it has to do with the algorithm used to detect a misfire? Maybe the FSM is misprinted and it really is the number 6 cylinder? My rig is a 95 and from what I understand, a cross over year from the OBD I to the required OBD II for 1996 year and beyond. Perhaps this has something to do with it?
Anyway, she is back together and ready for another summer of wheeling with twice as nice injectors.
- Thread starter
- #53
The number 6 injector would be the one nearest the firewall. The cylinder at the front of the engine is #1.
your post doesn't make much sense in this reguard.
your post doesn't make much sense in this reguard.
My bad.
Will I never learn. I read the firing sequence for the cylinder number. Ugh!
Will I never learn. I read the firing sequence for the cylinder number. Ugh!
