GC your own home build? (1 Viewer)

[tip]

Hey guys, figured there's plenty here to ask.

I'm wondering who here has been an owner/builder or GC on a home? We bought some property last year and looking to build in the next few years, no rush just saving money right now. Currently I'm knocking out as much as I can in cash DIY (temp power, pump house, construction entrance etc)

I am going back and forth on if I want to go the owner builder route or not, and after seeing the latest estimate from a builder... I may not have a choice in the matter. I'm an electrician by trade and DIY most things so I'm hoping I can knock out some tasks myself + family/friends while leaving the foundation, framing, plumbing etc for the pros.

I'm aware of the HUGE disadvantage i have when it comes to hiring/managing subs but hoping I can make it work.

If you have been your own GC, any words of wisdom??

 

[PAToyota]

It really depends on your skill level and experience with managing all the aspects of the construction. No offense intended, but you say "electrician by trade" which could mean anything from connecting the wires together at someone else's direction to managing a crew to owning your own business. Obviously, there is a difference between doing the actual physical work of the trade and managing even one trade in a project - something, I might add, that neither side rarely gives the other side full credit for.

If you said you were building a garage or workshop or such, I'd say go for it. A home is a bit more complex with coordinating all the trades that go into the project and I'd caution you to really work your way through the project to decide whether you're up to the task.

With that said, I've seen more than a few "general contractors" who felt that since they could do some of the actual physical work that they could be a General Contractor and make the big bucks - and proceeded to fail miserably when confronted with coordination, permits, lead times, and everything else that goes into managing a project. If you do hire someone, really take your time to scope them out to make sure they're up to the task.

 

[e9999]

I'm no expert in this, but my gut feeling is that GCing is something you'd want to leave to a pro if at all possible. And an experienced one at that. And legit of course, and with good connections. Yes, that will cost. But there is so much that can go wrong when dealing with subs, I imagine. For one thing, they will likely sense you are new at it and may be very tempted to take advantage in various ways (cost, delays etc). A good GC will know which subs are reliable and which are not, that alone may be worth the money. And I suspect it will also make a big difference when it comes to permitting and inspections.

 

[1911]

Hey guys, figured there's plenty here to ask.

I'm wondering who here has been an owner/builder or GC on a home? We bought some property last year and looking to build in the next few years, no rush just saving money right now. Currently I'm knocking out as much as I can in cash DIY (temp power, pump house, construction entrance etc)

I am going back and forth on if I want to go the owner builder route or not, and after seeing the latest estimate from a builder... I may not have a choice in the matter. I'm an electrician by trade and DIY most things so I'm hoping I can knock out some tasks myself + family/friends while leaving the foundation, framing, plumbing etc for the pros.

I'm aware of the HUGE disadvantage i have when it comes to hiring/managing subs but hoping I can make it work.

If you have been your own GC, any words of wisdom??

I'm in the (slow) process of building a house, and doing as much of it as I can myself, but my situation is unique enough that my experience may not be of much use to you.

Where we live (rural Texas), there are no permits or inspections, I can do whatever I want on my property. Actually there was a single permit, for the septic system, but that was easy. But no permits or inspections at all for the house. That obviously makes it way easier and cheaper to do plumbing (including propane lines), electrical, drain/sewer lines, etc. myself. Hopefully, you are not overly burdened with local permits and regulations where you live.

It did take a bit of shopping around to find the best prices on wire, PVC, CSST, etc. but the internet is your friend. If you just walk into a big electric or plumbing supply house and you don't have a business account, they're going to charge you full retail price. I'm also self-employed and own a couple of small corporations, so that is easier too. I also found that it has been worth it to sign on to the "Pro" program at Home Depot; the more you spend, the more discounts you get, and they do add up. For things like framing lumber, plywood, drywall, drywall mud, paint, etc., they're as cheap or cheaper than anywhere else.

My house is also a concrete earth-sheltered house, so I did pay a contractor who specializes in that type of construction to come and set up the forms and supervise the pours, but I still sub-contracted all the concrete and pump trucks myself. The son-half of the family contractor business is an all-around GC and has been willing to come back and help me/show me how to do stuff on an irregular basis since then; I basically just pay him by the day/week when I can afford it, and when he's not busy doing houses for other people. It works well for both of us, and we've become pretty good friends. He's happy to let me do as much of the work as I'm able and willing to do, and still do the things that don't make sense for me to do or I just don't want to do. I don't know how you find a guy like that where you live; I fairly lucked into into it here.

I've been working on our house (off and on) for going on six years now, just paying cash as we go, when we can. We own it free and clear, which is why it doesn't bother us to be taking so long to build.

Good luck with your build!

 

[WarDamnEagle]

I GC'd my own house back in 1997, FWIW. I am an engineer by undergrad degree but grew up on a farm with various relatives that covered the gamut from carpentry to heavy equipment. I consider myself a decent trim carpenter and did all the trim and hardwood floors myself. I was also working in the chemical industry and could hire individuals on weekends for electrical, etc. to help out so I didn't have to bid out some of the subs. I had zero issues with permits or inspections. In fact, the inspectors were very complimentary of the quality every time they were out. The electrical inspector had clearly never seen electrical panel waterfalls like my industrial guys installed.

So, yes you can probably do it but be prepared to do a lot of stuff yourself. Also, make absolutely sure you can afford (construction loan terms, etc.) to take much longer than normal. "Normal back then for a 3500 ft2 house with a full basement underneath was around 6-8 months after the site was clear. I took more like 10 months to get it habitable and another few months to finish everything. Obviously "normal" varies tremendously area to area and I'm guessing that normal today is way longer. Regardless of what "normal" is in your area, you will take longer.

Good luck regardless of which way you go!

 

[Bob Morazes]

For what its worth. Id look for a builder that has all/most of the the trades involved under one roof./ in his shop.
Your GC will take take a bid from a sub and add 10-15%, just for the honor and privilege of making a few phone calls and standing around with their hands in pockets during the work. (sorry i've been recently been burned).
Your builder can stop at any point and let you finish the electrical, plumbing, drywall, etc.
When I did my build many years ago. All I needed for the elec permit was to have the panel and one outlet installed. after that was approved, I did the rest of the house and shop wiring.
Same with the plumbing, just need to make sure the pipe sizes are correct/large enough.
Have fun
Bobmo

 

[PAToyota]

As others are saying, at the very least expect the process to take longer if you do it yourself. If you're financing the build, I'd also make sure of the terms there because you may have issues with financing an owner build or the time-frame you take to build.

I'd advise to at least either hire someone or have a solid plan in place to get everything under roof and dried in quickly. From there you can take your time with plumbing, electrical, and finishes, but having everything getting wet with each rain while you figure out framing and cladding and such is going to be a mess in the long run.

 

[sogafarm]

Size and complexity of the house plans make all the difference. Keep it as simple as possible for the layout and it will be easier for you. If your a tradesman electrician then make friends with the other trades people on the job sites that do good work and they could help you. Trade outs with other trades can go a long way. You do some electrical for them and they can provide their expertise for you to keep costs down.
Search out local mills that are family run for wood. I’ve found box store wood products to be of poor quality usually. More waste equals wasted time and money.

 

[tip]

If you said you were building a garage or workshop or such, I'd say go for it. A home is a bit more complex with coordinating all the trades that go into the project and I'd caution you to really work your way through the project to decide whether you're up to the task.

That is a great point. I've been considering building a shop w/ small apartment above as a "trial by fire" run. And that will at least get us living on the property with our basic needs met (i.e. shop )

Obviously I'd like to start with just a garage/shop but my county won't allow a garage without a primary residence first. After seeing how that goes, I can decide whether I want to take the plunge on GC'ing the main house years down the road

Where we live (rural Texas), there are no permits or inspections, I can do whatever I want on my property. Actually there was a single permit, for the septic system, but that was easy. But no permits or inspections at all for the house. That obviously makes it way easier and cheaper to do plumbing (including propane lines), electrical, drain/sewer lines, etc. myself. Hopefully, you are not overly burdened with local permits and regulations where you live.

It did take a bit of shopping around to find the best prices on wire, PVC, CSST, etc. but the internet is your friend.

Haha that's awesome you've got no permits or inspection to worry about. My county (Pierce) is about the opposite. I'm trying to prepare myself for the nightmare.

I agree about sourcing material online, that's one thing I've had some experience with.

So, yes you can probably do it but be prepared to do a lot of stuff yourself. Also, make absolutely sure you can afford (construction loan terms, etc.) to take much longer than normal. "Normal back then for a 3500 ft2 house with a full basement underneath was around 6-8 months after the site was clear.

Good point about the construction loan terms... something to think about since most are interest only during construction right?

For what its worth. Id look for a builder that has all/most of the the trades involved under one roof./ in his shop.
Your GC will take take a bid from a sub and add 10-15%, just for the honor and privilege of making a few phone calls and standing around with their hands in pockets during the work. (sorry i've been recently been burned).
Your builder can stop at any point and let you finish the electrical, plumbing, drywall, etc.

I'm going to be calling around to see if anyone is willing to do the "shell" for me. I think that's a pretty good compromise for a rookie like me. The few guys I've talked to so far didn't seem too thrilled with the idea. I'll keep calling

 

[tip]

Size and complexity of the house plans make all the difference. Keep it as simple as possible for the layout and it will be easier for you. If your a tradesman electrician then make friends with the other trades people on the job sites that do good work and they could help you.

Definitely going on the simpler side. The primary house i have drawn up is super simple (at least to me).... 2000 sqft 2 story rectangle with gable roof and wrap around porch.

Good idea regarding the trade bartering. I work for a nearby city so unfortunately I don't get much face time with residential subs. I'm going to start asking around though

 

[PAToyota]

The primary house i have drawn up is super simple (at least to me)....

Again, not knowing your experience, I'd have someone look your plans over to make sure you're headed in the right direction - particularly for permit submissions as you say those are going to be a necessity.

As a Registered Architect, I work with a pretty wide range of clients. I recently had a project with a client looking to do the construction themselves. Going over things, they had the skills, but not the knowledge. They had sketched out a basic plan, but it was pretty sorely lacking and would not have stood a chance of getting through the permitting phase. We worked together and in the end he admitted he hadn't planned on spending as much on the design portion, but realized that it saved him a lot of time and money by working everything out on paper before spending the money for the plan reviews and knowing what he was getting into for the construction.

I offer a range of services. Permit documents are the most basic and mostly just show the items that need to be addressed to meet code requirements - dimensions, basic specifications, and details that are going to have to be built fairly exactly to be approved, but it's left to the builder or contractor to know basic construction methods. Full construction documents "nail things down" with more detail and have full specifications, more extensive detailing, and specific products called out. This allows more accurate bidding as everyone is giving a price for the same items and construction methods instead of each bidder deciding on their own how they're going to construct it (ie: one is using copper plumbing while another is using PVC and another is using PEX). For this, I went as far as to give framing plans and elevations since he didn't have the experience to know how much lumber to order - or (actually) how it all went together. It was more expensive to provide that much detail, but as I said it saved him time and money in the long run for not buying lumber piecemeal or buying too much and not using it.

Going from your location, Washington seems similar to Pennsylvania in that they adopt the ICC (International Code Council) building code with amendments: Residential Code Amendments | SBCC - https://sbcc.wa.gov/state-codes-regulations-guidelines/state-building-code/residential-code-amendments

Home | ICC Store

ICC Store

shop.iccsafe.org

That can get tricky for someone not familiar with working with the codes as you have to figure out what parts control - ICC or State. You read through the ICC and think you know what is going on only to find that a State amendment overrules or changes parameters of it. I go through days of continuing education every time the new code comes out and still end up with some issues where things were not clear - not to mention issues with how the local building department decides to interpret things.

 

[tip]

Again, not knowing your experience, I'd have someone look your plans over to make sure you're headed in the right direction - particularly for permit submissions as you say those are going to be a necessity.

Thank you for all the info, looks like I have some reading to do! I may have some questions for you if you don't mind

And for sure I will be getting my plans looked at. I hope it didn't come off as cocky when I said the plans I drew up are "simple to me". I just meant that the house looks pretty basic - at least to my untrained eye. Maybe I'll post up a pic.

I'm also not married to what I have drawn up. We live out in the country and want a simple farmhouse. I was hoping to find a simple stock plan but that is proving to be harder than I thought. Most have overly complex roofs, odd proportions, etc. that we'd be modifying anyway.

And any plan we have will need to be engineered anyways so figure it wouldn't hurt to draw up my own idea. My plan was to take it to someone (architect? drafter?) to draw them up before going to engineering. Please let me know if this isn't the right order of operations.

On another note, I'm definitely not going the owner/builder route solely to "save money". I'm in it for the experience and to learn...and with the very real possibility I get my a$$ handed to me.

For example, right now I'm removing a few dozen trees. Would it be quicker and more cost effective to hire someone to do it? Yes probably. But I just like to do things (and justify tools + equipment )

 

[PAToyota]

My plan was to take it to someone (architect? drafter?) to draw them up before going to engineering. Please let me know if this isn't the right order of operations.

As an Architect, I typically do all residential work in-house rather than involve my team of Engineers unless there is something crazy going on that needs their input - complex structural spans or complex HVAC systems are the two typical exceptions.

A drafter may or may not be as conversant in the code issues. Often, when someone comes to me with plans from a drafter I have to start over because it is basically a "pretty picture" with a lot of issues. Likewise, Engineers tend to be good at their discipline (structural, civil, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, etc), but may not be as versed in the other codes.

Mind you, there are poor Architects just as there are good drafters and Engineers. Take the time to talk to them, ask to see prior work, and discuss your project with them to see how they react to your plans and your questions.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

I'm also not married to what I have drawn up. We live out in the country and want a simple farmhouse. I was hoping to find a simple stock plan but that is proving to be harder than I thought. Most have overly complex roofs, odd proportions, etc. that we'd be modifying anyway.

Have you tried searching through the plethora of Southern Living house plans? The house we built was one of their plans. I made some modifications to it but it was a very complete plan with pretty much everything engineered except the HVAC. Of course you will always have to marry the foundation plan to the local conditions, codes, etc. so you will likely have to get a third party involved regardless. At least you will in a highly regulated area.