22R Engine failure: coolant in oil (1 Viewer)

[canyon62]

Hey All,

I posted a while back about a '94 pickup I bought that had a rust problem around the rear leaf spring hanger. I ended up selling that one at a loss and going out on a search for a clean first gen 4x4 longbed pickup. I found this one in San Diego, flew out, picked it up, and drove it back to NY in about 84 hours door to door (54 hours in motion, average speed of 55mph)

1983, 22R, 5-spd. Now, this truck has no rust, many new mechanical parts, and a complete engine rebuild at 200k (it had 230k now). The truck worked great for the 3000 mile trip back from the West and for the last month as a daily driver... this is until yesterday morning.

I was driving to work (17 degrees over here) and noticed the temp running high... and no heat. Made it in to work... (4 slow miles after I noticed the problem) and looked in the rad... no coolant... checked the dipstick... coolant oil mix.

This is my first major engine failure, so I guess that is some sort of milestone in my life. It appears that the coolant is in the oil. There is no coolant in the recovery tank and no visible coolant in the rad when looking in from the top. I drained a bit out the bottom and it was still green. The dipstick is indicating that the missing coolant is in the oil system because it is reading very high with what appears to be sludgy, cooked, coolant mixed with the oil. The truck was blowing white smoke just before I shut it down.

Anyway, I'm thinking this is something catastrophic since this happened all at once... the truck had been running great with daily driving over the last month... and yesterday morning, something let loose in a hurry... cracked block? cracked head? head gasket? I've also read that it is possible for a loose timing belt to nick the head and allow a small hole to form where coolant can flow down into the oil pan. Could be any of these... so I'm probably going to just get a reman long block and pull the whole engine in the spring. Then I'll tear it down and try to figure out what happened.

Any one have any other ideas or previous experience with a situation like this.

All input appreciated.

 

[pappy]

Anyway, I'm thinking this is something catastrophic since this happened all at once... the truck had been running great with daily driving over the last month... and yesterday morning, something let loose in a hurry... cracked block? cracked head? head gasket? I've also read that it is possible for a loose timing belt to nick the head and allow a small hole to form where coolant can flow down into the oil pan. Could be any of these... so I'm probably going to just get a reman long block and pull the whole engine in the spring. Then I'll tear it down and try to figure out what happened.

I think you are on the right track. Could very well be the timing cover, though as I recall you should have a double chain setup with steel guides, so less likely. Did you freeze the engine? They would certainly use less antifreeze in San Diego than you would need in NY.

Might be a good excuse for a 22RE.

 

[KLF]

Actually, I'm pretty sure a 1983 WILL have a single row chain and plastic guides. That was the first year for that change, although they kept the old "wide" cover. So it would be easy to convert it back to double-row and wider steel guides (I did this on my old '84). So, my diagnosis/guess is "timing chain ate thru the timing cover coolant passage".

I would start by taking off the valve cover and take a flashlight, look down the galley where the timing chain and guides are. See if you can see the condition of the guides. Then go from there.

I really don't think you need to get a whole new engine. Nice looking truck, BTW.

 

[canyon62]

Thanks for the input. This week was some of the coldest weather we've had since I brought the truck back... in the event that the engine did freeze, what would the actual damage be?

I will pull it apart and take a look under the at the timing chain when the weather breaks.... we just got another 12" of snow over here! Now's the time when I wish I didn't have that large pile of random junk in my garage... so I could at least pull it in and turn on the kero heater.

oh well... at least I have my '88 fj 62 to get me through the rest of the winter. I'll just make sure to wash the salt off...

 

[85+92]

worst case sceniero (sp?) cracked block and/or head

more then likely (from my experience) the head is cracked or warpped.

Id get the head off and have it checked before you decide on anything else at least see where you stand....

 

[Rooskey]

Very nice truck! I would pull the engine and have the block checked rather than put a new head on it and see what happens (if the timing chain didnt cause the issue). Anyway if your using that truck for a winter daily driver you will need a fiberglass bed for it in a couple years. I'd hate to see another flawless first gen go down the tubes.

 

[Chop Shop]

I would do some testing before even removing one bolt.

One test will tell you if it a timing chain or bad head gasket/crack.

get this or borrow one.
Store Locator | NAPA Online

If you borrow it get an extra bottle of test fluid. Nobody will loan ya tools again if ya use all the supplies.

It will tell you if you have combustion gas in the radiator/cooling system.

A cracked head/block or bad head gasket will let combustion gas get into the cooling system turning the test fluid from blue to yellow.

A bad timing chain cover will just let oil and coolant mix together and will NOT turn the blue fluid into yellow.

No guessing.

This $50 kit will save you allot of labor and possibly wasted time and money. No need to order it, my local NAPA has it and extra test fluid in stock and so should yours.

 

[Chop Shop]

and why are all the clean 1st gens ALWAYS long boxes.

I can never find a shorty that clean.

Nice truck.

 

[Combat Chuck]

get the engine cleaned up, and have it compression-tested. I'm hoping it's the timing chain, but it's always nice to test the head as well.

Welcome to the '83 club, by the way!

 

[canyon62]

Thanks for more good ideas. That test kit sounds like a good idea Chop Shop.

However, as someone mentioned earlier... this makes me think a bit about a 22RE. What do you guys think would be the cheapest way to get a reman 22RE with all the "E" parts. The unfortunate part of living in the Northeast is that there are very few of these trucks around, so getting a local donor is tough. I see that a few places will ship out 22Rs anyone have experience with getting a 22RE?

 

[Combat Chuck]

the easiest way is to buy a truck on its way out, and do a swap, it's also the cheapest. It's always more cost-effective to buy an entire parts rig, and recondition the motor as needed than to pay a premium for single parts.

 

[toy4xfun]

buy the way you will want to find an 85 or newer for the RE.

 

[Chop Shop]

you will need the fuel tank, wiring harness, complete intake setup, manifold or O2 fitting etc.

Its not practical unless you have a donor.

Third gen 2Xs have a fuel tank thats fits in your truck. Find a rusted out ol beat up 2x RE truck for a donor and start a long expensive project.

OR..

test you engine and spend a DAY and less than $100-150 and fix it and drive it.

By the looks of the truck I think it was just fine for 30 years with a carb and will probably be OK for along time with a carb.

Why tear into such a nice truck and start changing it all up.

Its not a wheeler, thats the only reason I have to swap in EFI is for runnabilty at extreme angles.

 

[toy4xfun]

that is not why i switched my 84!

 

[Combat Chuck]

that is not why i switched my 84!

yeah, EFI also means improved fuel economy, it's easier to smog, and idles better cold.

 

[toy4xfun]

actually, i switched because my smart carb was bad, and no one in my area could get a rebuild kit, but would gladly sell me a $350 rebuilt one.

since i had 4 EFI trucks setting here i decided to do the swap!


and i would do it again, yea you have to tear the dash out, and swap a lot of parts, i learned a lot doing this and IMO the FI is more reliable.


feed back carb is the proper name for it.

 

[canyon62]

All valid points and I will spend the time to diagnose and see what can be done on the cheap because that is currently where I'm at... just wanted to confirm that a donor truck would be necessary for the 22re. Like I said, this truck has many new mechanicals including a new carb and distrib, so it is totally worth my time to fix what I have.

 

[toy4xfun]

and it is yours so it is ultimately up to you. but i would check that engine over real well, it might just be something simple, once you know what is really wrong you will be able to make a better decision.

 

[Chop Shop]

I have a carb on my wheeler cuz Im too lazy to convert it. I have all the needed parts just dont want to do it at the moment.

My truck idles like a champ, runs good, choke kicks asss, I have no complaints if it was in a driver.

But it poops on me on steep rough stuff. I easily overcome this with a longer approach and more speed, so I still justify being lazy in my situation.

A bad running efi is just as common as a bad running carb.

both can be owned by folks that cant fix things but will make an unfair judgement call.

A bad running carb can easily be fixed for NO MONEY (rebuild kits rarely ever fix a carb) the cleaning it while installing the rebuild is what fixes it most of the time. Rarely I have to buy an accel pump when fixing a carb.

But it takes a competent mechanic to understand and clean/fix a carb, not parts and money just skill and time and patience.

A bad running EFI most always requires a trip to the parts house and some MONEY.


I have built and tuned 2stroke quads for years (250Rs) and they dont have efi. They dont need a rebuilt carb, ever. I grew out of my fear of carbs and jets years ago. Anyone ever rebuild a 30 year old 2 stroke bike or outboard? cleaning and jets is all you need for the carb.


Allot of people like the efi cuz they can start plugging in new components till it works again.

If carbs dont scare/bother you then just fix that ol truck and start getting miles on her.

1st gens rock.

 

[Combat Chuck]

Biggest hurdle to carb-kind is the fact that carburetors are of a dying breed. My 22R's 27 years old, and running strong: will it be so at 37 years? 47? Until the truck explodes, or is wrecked out from under me, the only way I'll let it go is out of my cold, dead hands; that means eventually adapting to what's immediately available. I doubt a 22R carb would be easy to find by then.

Bottom line, Canyon:
Get her running as-is, don't worry about EFI until you've had a few thousand more miles on that rig.
That's one of those maneuvers that kills a truck - getting the notion it needs to be torn down before you've gotten to know it.