Builds 1st FJ40, '76 - SMOKEY - Puttin’ her Back Together (1 Viewer)

[tnkayaker]

My first aluminum project when I got my Miller 200DX tig/stick unit was the cart -
View attachment 1161458
I designed it this way so can be moved on a flight of stairs and still fit through a 28" door opening if necessary . Cart only weighs in at 45lbs and have upgraded to a 150 size tank since this photo .

Be warned , using tig on body panels is going to require an aluminum backer or purge box to trap the argon , otherwise you'll introduce oxygen to the back side of the weld/panel . Using dc pulse is great on thin stuff , just watch out for heat building as a tig can warp panels just as easy as a mig , if not worse .

Sarge

This is the cart I need to build for the house we just bought. My "shop" is in a walk out basement on the back side that is accessed by stairs and a steep sidewalk. Looks like I need to cut up the one I was almost finished building.

Mind if I borrow some of your design?

 

[Weber Sarge]

No winch here and none needed . It's a bit heavy with the 150 tank but not bad and pretty stable despite the narrow wheel width design . Sold my Ramsey 9500 when the Samurai went to a new owner , that was a mistake as it was one of the best winches made .
If I had to do it over , the cart would have a bent front frame for the tank . The perforated metal on the bottom is for holding up tig wire storage tubes - I'll get a better pic of the front today . It's also set up to be tied down or lifted up to the job , we've had it 30' in the air once on a crane at work to finish up some welds once - thankfully everything held together . I would like a better way to clamp down the Miller without damaging it's case - that unit was a $4,000 investment . Need to trade it in or sell it and go with the newer 280DX ....

Sarge

 

[Vae Victus]

Brought the frame into the garage, moved the body outside and tarped it.

Began the metal repair work. Starting small on a fender. Tried the TIG but even with a tight fit up the original metal was blowing out - even just trying to make some small tacks. Started with low amps - 20 or so. At that point I had to switch to MIG to fix the gaps so I left TIG for practice work until I can do it consistently.

Using 0.023" wire on the MIG. When grinding, I could see that the welds were not penetrating enough on the edges (lots of spot weld edges to grind down), so I need to increase the amps or slow the wire speed.

Used a copper backer - a big block of 1/2" x 5" x 5" that I bought a while back. That helped with the heat and to contain the filler wire.

Back side

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

why didn't you weld from the back? with a copper backing plate (that is clamped to the metal) you can weld a big hotter then get a nice, flat weld on the front... my dad builds (meaning, I built many of them) commercial kitchen equipment - mostly 304 #4 finish stainless - and when we needed a table that was longer then our press brake could handle, we'd seam weld. And that trick - copper on the seen surface - along with a big more heat made flat, perfect butt welds every time.

the other way to do that is make the patch your wire thickness smaller - then you get flatter welds as well (still with copper backing).

 

[Vae Victus]

why didn't you weld from the back? with a copper backing plate (that is clamped to the metal) you can weld a bit hotter then get a nice, flat weld on the front... my dad builds (meaning, I built many of them) commercial kitchen equipment - mostly 304 #4 finish stainless - and when we needed a table that was longer then our press brake could handle, we'd seam weld. And that trick - copper on the seen surface - along with a bit more heat made flat, perfect butt welds every time.

the other way to do that is make the patch your wire thickness smaller - then you get flatter welds as well (still with copper backing).

Ah, Grasshopper has lots to learn.

I learned several things today. One - don't make the fit so tight when MIG welding a butt weld. That became obvious when I looked at the back of the weld. Two - when you have thin metal, don't try and fill pin holes: you end up making Swiss cheese and chasing holes all day long. Just cut the crap out and put in new metal. 3 and 4 - see above.

I'll admit it's my first day of sheet metal repair.

Copper backer. 8"x5". Bigger than I remembered.

The second area I had to cut out of this darn fender. Metal was much thinner than I realized.

Just below that is the third area I'm going to cut out. The entire lower 3" is tissue thin (especially after I ground away the tack welds from the second repair and after I filled in a few low spots to try and build them up. Mistake!)

Starting the tacks.

You can see where I was trying to build up the area below. Yea, that didn't work out so well. After grinding, that area was good but a single tack to fill in a low spot started a cascading Swiss cheese rally.

I don't have pictures of it. I'm just going to cut it out and move on.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

tips are free - if they work for you great, if not, you get a full refund

 

[SMG]

tips are free - if they work for you great, if not, you get a full refund

That looks fimilar

Ah, Grasshopper has lots to learn.

I learned several things today. One - don't make the fit so tight when MIG welding a butt weld. That became obvious when I looked at the back of the weld. Two - when you have thin metal, don't try and fill pin holes: you end up making Swiss cheese and chasing holes all day long. Just cut the crap out and put in new metal. 3 and 4 - see above.

I'll admit it's my first day of sheet metal repair.

Copper backer. 8"x5". Bigger than I remembered.
View attachment 1162942

The second area I had to cut out of this darn fender. Metal was much thinner than I realized.
View attachment 1162943

Just below that is the third area I'm going to cut out. The entire lower 3" is tissue thin (especially after I ground away the tack welds from the second repair and after I filled in a few low spots to try and build them up. Mistake!)

Starting the tacks.
View attachment 1162944

You can see where I was trying to build up the area below. Yea, that didn't work out so well. After grinding, that area was good but a single tack to fill in a low spot started a cascading Swiss cheese rally.
View attachment 1162945

I don't have pictures of it. I'm just going to cut it out and move on.

Man..... That looks fimilar.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

I saved the pieces of my fenders that I didn't use - the rounded bits - so that if ever anyone needs those pieces; they could live a new life.... if you have too much trouble, let me know, it can't cost that much to send a small box to Maryland....

@SMG - I don't envy you the bodywork that's coming next - from your taped picture it looks like you lapped the patch over the fender. When you grind it, if it was lapped, you will grind through - you also may have gotten a lot of issues with shrinkage when the metal cooled that can't be hammered out.... if you must lap, put the metal under the seam then fill the top with filler (light weight). Despite the rants you see on the various TV shows - it's an acceptable way of completing a repair that won't cause you spend your life trying to get it perfect... too much bondo is bad, not enough bondo is a friendly car (or a parade car) because it waves at you.
starting a 7:36


what's funny is that video shows (inadvertently) how cheap of welder Eastwood is selling. They show how to set gas and temp, but what's interesting is, despite each of the spots being the same amount of time, the machine struggles to maintain its heat setting. Looking at the welds, you see cold, way too hot, just right on the "good" welds... point is this, while you can get pretty good welds - sometimes your machine is what is causing you grief.
Despite that criticism - that is a good video that gets you the basics on installing a good patch panel,

 

[Weber Sarge]

The holes in the center of those tacks indicate oxygen entering the weld puddle - keep that nozzle as close as possible and just a little more heat will help .

Tig is really tricky on thin sheet metal - a slight gap with either aluminum or copper backer actually works out better for me .

Sarge

 

[SMG]

I saved the pieces of my fenders that I didn't use - the rounded bits - so that if ever anyone needs those pieces; they could live a new life.... if you have too much trouble, let me know, it can't cost that much to send a small box to Maryland....

@SMG - I don't envy you the bodywork that's coming next - from your taped picture it looks like you lapped the patch over the fender. When you grind it, if it was lapped, you will grind through - you also may have gotten a lot of issues with shrinkage when the metal cooled that can't be hammered out.... if you must lap, put the metal under the seam then fill the top with filler (light weight). Despite the rants you see on the various TV shows - it's an acceptable way of completing a repair that won't cause you spend your life trying to get it perfect... too much bondo is bad, not enough bondo is a friendly car (or a parade car) because it waves at you.
starting a 7:36


what's funny is that video shows (inadvertently) how cheap of welder Eastwood is selling. They show how to set gas and temp, but what's interesting is, despite each of the spots being the same amount of time, the machine struggles to maintain its heat setting. Looking at the welds, you see cold, way too hot, just right on the "good" welds... point is this, while you can get pretty good welds - sometimes your machine is what is causing you grief.
Despite that criticism - that is a good video that gets you the basics on installing a good patch panel,

No lap there, the tape was used to hold it in place before I started welding. I fit the panel as perfect as I could before I started. Almost no filler, just a skim coat.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

optical delusion got me again.. nice work

 

[oldschool4wheeling]

Its not often when I know I am out gunned, I usually learn my mistakes after I get started.

BUT WELDING UP BODY PANELS........ NO WAY!!

GOOD LUCK VV !

 

[Vae Victus]

No lap there, the tape was used to hold it in place before I started welding. I fit the panel as perfect as I could before I started. Almost no filler, just a skim coat. View attachment 1163047

That's what I hope to achieve - bondo-free repair! Nice work.

 

[Vae Victus]

Its not often when I know I am out gunned, I usually learn my mistakes after I get started.

BUT WELDING UP BODY PANELS........ NO WAY!!

GOOD LUCK VV !

I don't see much choice. Need to dive in and do my best. Worst case is I need lots of bondo but the panels are rust free.

 

[Vae Victus]

I don't see much choice. Need to dive in and do my best. Worst case is I need lots of bondo but the panels are rust free.

Man I'm such a good welder! :-/

So - I'm getting a lot of "flame outs" of the welding wire (mig). Squeeze the trigger and it touches the metal and it vaporizes. Burns all the way to the nozzle and sometimes gets stuck.

It's like I'm holding it in the metal when I squeeze but I'm not. Happens about 20% of the time.

It is the thin stuff - 0.023". Maybe is should move up to the 0.030".

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

turn up wire speed and be certain that you've got at least 10 psi of gas to the torch

oh and be utterly certain the weld surface is clean. a second, albeit fastidious, step is to put a wire-cleaner on the welding wire.

 

[Bambi Girl]

Hi VV
You are coming along in leaps and bounds now.
I have not looked at your build for a few weeks but Gee well done.
Super Buick guy speaks the truth, up the wire speed or down the amps plus the wire cleaner all will help.
A little here can be a lot , tread carefully.
Nozzle dip and or welding spray can also be your friend.
What else can I say but keep up the good! No keep the job up to the professional standard as shown in your photos.
I look forward to your next report.
Cheers Peter



...via IH8MUD app

 

[Vae Victus]

Thanks guys. I'm running at around 17.5 amps. Turned it down to 16-ish and the welds weren't penetrating well. I'll try turning up wire speed but I do think cleaning is the main issue here.

Peter - thanks for the encouragement. Going is tough right now. I'm not pleased with my abilities.

I did buy a planishing hammer and two dollies to work on the smoothing. Also have a shrinking disk on the way. Hopefully I can improve my welds and get better at smoothing the metal after.

 

[Vae Victus]

So to reduce metal strain when stitch welding am I supposed to planishing each weld while it's hot? I've seen this discussed by a couple of experts but there is very little of it.

Any thoughts from the experts out there?

 

[Heirloom]

I had luck with planishing the metal warm, after adding a handful of stitches, but not red hot. It requires a firm strike, but don't go overboard.

I'm not an expert, though.