12ht turbo q's (1 Viewer)

[Tapage]

David,

It indeed depends on the amount of fuel delivered. In my case, it could give a lot more. But one litre diesel fuel is 1.40 Euros. I would add more if i could afford it. It uses more than enough as it is right now.
I watched your Marilu video's and mine sure doesn't smoke like she does. Crank up the boost some. You know you want to! Also, the 3,5 inch dump pipe made a big difference in EGT's

@ Dougal. The rpm's are around 2500 in fifth gear doing 100KM/h

Tencha compared to Marilu it's much more clean in this way ... way less fuel than Marilu have .. but I'm not worried about the Mairlu milleage anycase ..

A .. I have a shortt 3" exhaust, figure this whith the factoru exhaust ..

 

[Repelsteel]

12HT scares me

Hi all,

Last saturday Troopie did me a huge favour, painting my trusty HJ60 for me. On the return trip home on sunday, he apperantly did the temperature/RPM mapping, mentioned before.

Off course he hauled all the painting stuff in his troopie.
Off course we got in the monster after we unloaded the compressor and went for a test spin. (he had a new exhaust to show me)
Off course I got scared...

That thing flies!

Wheelspin in first gear, second gear and even a naughty squeel in third gear.

Troopie, you are a genius with the 12HT! Now I now why your rims are cracking!
Stay safe!

Repelsteel

 

[troopie]

Thanks, I figured you'd be lower geared than me to have EGT's that much lower. Mine spins 2000rpm at 100km/h.

What sort of drop did you get with the bigger pipe? I've heard others report up to 50 deg C.

I might switch to 35 inch tires once i can find a set 10.5 inch wide. That should drop the revs a little and makes for a little quieter ride.

The drop was pretty big. It varies from around 40 to 70 in different rev ranges. By far the biggest drop i´ve seen caused by a bolt on. The new exhaust was absolutely a big improvement.

 

[troopie]

Hi all,

Last saturday Troopie did me a huge favour, painting my trusty HJ60 for me. On the return trip home on sunday, he apperantly did the temperature/RPM mapping, mentioned before.

Off course he hauled all the painting stuff in his troopie.
Off course we got in the monster after we unloaded the compressor and went for a test spin. (he had a new exhaust to show me)
Off course I got scared...

That thing flies!

Wheelspin in first gear, second gear and even a naughty squeel in third gear.

Troopie, you are a genius with the 12HT! Now I now why your rims are cracking!
Stay safe!

Repelsteel

You're very welcome my friend.

It was my meaning to scare you. I'm glad to see it worked

Now go find yourself a 12HT to swap in your HJ60. I'll try to do my magic on that thing to.

Later,
Mark

 

[troopie]

Just a little update on this.

It seems that 18 psi was to much, i blew the headgasket between 4 and 5. All the cylinders checked out from 425 to 410 psi, but 4 and 5 were 145. Both were exactly the same, so i concluded that the gasket is blown between the two. It never overheated, or did some other crazy stuff. It just started to run a little rough on idle and a few km down the road it only ran on 4 cylinders.

If there's more to this, i'll start a new thread. If it's only the gasket, it's not interesting enough to start one.

Later,
Mark

 

[Tapage]

I never ( and actually I'm scared ) go over 14PSI ..

 

[gbentink]

Hi Troopie,

I have been following your posts with interest.

I am rebuilding a 12H-T for my HJ61 Auto. I have significantly ported the head and inlet manifold since they seem aweful std (I was shocked how bad) and may explain the higher rev reduced torque.

Additionally I am fitting VNT Turbo and possibly a compounded second. Not all for power, mostly smoke control. Havent decided on water to Air or Air to Air IC. I hate the leakage problems with high boost on Air to air. I would always get leaks when boosting over 22psi. If all sealed up, it would boost nicely to 27psi. If anyone says the CT26 cannot do it, they are dead wrong; caveat being you need to upgrade the compressor wheel like I did......

Before anyone flames my idea, I have quite a bit of experience in this tech. I only got 114 rwkw out of my 80 series despite 22psi boost, but there are reasons for that. So I am not looking for any advice, just letting people know of the project; it may interest some.

How is yours going now? I am happy to share some CT26 improvement secrets with you if you like.

Have you had yours on the dyno at all?

I have a question regarding the injector pump fuel flow. I have the manual for the 12H-T and it seems that a fair amount more fuel could be dialed in but it doesnt say how much, do you have an idea how far % wise extra you could go from your current setting? Hardly anyone fiddles with the 12H-T. It is what m,akes this fun. I will be releasing the dyno figures when it is done, but dont hold your breath, I only got the block back today from being bored/decked and need to do a dummy assembly to optimize cam timing. I dont need the car, it is a second, so slowly slowly goes it.

Cheers, Graeme

 

[Dougal]

Additionally I am fitting VNT Turbo and possibly a compounded second. Not all for power, mostly smoke control.

Hi Graeme.
Which VNT turbo have you got? There is a serious lack of choice around this engine size.

 

[The Dude]

Please share any info you have on tweaking the turbo! I would love to see how your rebuild and tuning goes!

 

[Tapage]

I'v seen my Stock CT26 on my 1HD-T on 20 PSI easy .. but I'm 100% positive that these turbo on 20 PSI it totally out of range .. and boost hot air all the way .. a big IC would be desirable ..

But apart on the safe side .. ( and only based in my readings about turbos ) force the CT26 on 20 PSI could end in a destroyed impeller .. ?

Please share with us more of your project .

 

[troopie]

Hi Troopie,

I have been following your posts with interest.

I am rebuilding a 12H-T for my HJ61 Auto. I have significantly ported the head and inlet manifold since they seem aweful std (I was shocked how bad) and may explain the higher rev reduced torque.

Additionally I am fitting VNT Turbo and possibly a compounded second. Not all for power, mostly smoke control. Havent decided on water to Air or Air to Air IC. I hate the leakage problems with high boost on Air to air. I would always get leaks when boosting over 22psi. If all sealed up, it would boost nicely to 27psi. If anyone says the CT26 cannot do it, they are dead wrong; caveat being you need to upgrade the compressor wheel like I did......

Before anyone flames my idea, I have quite a bit of experience in this tech. I only got 114 rwkw out of my 80 series despite 22psi boost, but there are reasons for that. So I am not looking for any advice, just letting people know of the project; it may interest some.

How is yours going now? I am happy to share some CT26 improvement secrets with you if you like.

Have you had yours on the dyno at all?

I have a question regarding the injector pump fuel flow. I have the manual for the 12H-T and it seems that a fair amount more fuel could be dialed in but it doesnt say how much, do you have an idea how far % wise extra you could go from your current setting? Hardly anyone fiddles with the 12H-T. It is what m,akes this fun. I will be releasing the dyno figures when it is done, but dont hold your breath, I only got the block back today from being bored/decked and need to do a dummy assembly to optimize cam timing. I dont need the car, it is a second, so slowly slowly goes it.

Cheers, Graeme

Hi Graeme,

I still haven't got the time to get mine dynoed. I'm up to my neck in a winch challenge FJ40 buildup for a friend. I'm doing an engine swap, redo the steering and suspension and a whole lot of other small things. The damn thing ate all of my spare time.

Right now all i can say that it still goes pretty well and the headgasket i blew didn't have any ill effects afterwards. I quickly swapped it out for a new one and drove off once again.

I now read that you ported the head, i'm really curious how that workes out. I kind off regret that i didn't do mine at the time, but it's my daily driver, so it had to be done in a weekend.

I'll have to dig thru a pile of papers to see if i can still find the graph off the fuel pump before and after the rebuild and tweeking. I remember that the fuel was increased by 20% or close to that, but i have to check to be sure. And at what rev range exactly.

There is not much i can help you with at this moment, but it seems that you know what you are doing with it.

Please start a new thread when you really start building the engine. I would also like to know more about the cam timing. I always wanted to try a 2H cam in the 12HT, but never came around actually fitting it.
This engine can take alot of beating, so i really want to know how to get more out of it while still remain reliable. I feel i'm not at the max of it's potential.

Later,
Mark

 

[Greg_B]

Please share any info you have on tweaking the turbo! I would love to see how your rebuild and tuning goes!

No tech to add, just some comments:

Brad, I was thinking of you when as I wandered through this thread. You know you want to...

Awesome thread folks, thanks for sharing your tweaks and tech. Please keep us all updated.

 

[gbentink]

OK, happy to share.

My CT26 could boost to 27psi, but I used a bigger diameter exducer compressor wheel with 49mm inducer; and stronger.

The first, simplest and cheapest mod is to fit a Supra CT26 Compressor cover and wheel. Changes inducer from 40mm to 44.45mm and this makes a huge difference.

Limit boost to 17-18psi to get the most out of it - mostly the vanes start to bend.....

I started a thread for my perfromance 12H-T buyild in the 60 series section - should have started it here!!!!!

The other problem is the turbines dont flow well after ~ 2200rpm, so back cutting the blades *might* be the way to go. I am going to experiment with this on my compound turbo setup.....so don't blame me if you do it and loose your bottom end boost

As for VNT, I was lucky enough to find a turbo with the CT26 flange. It is a GT2560 and I converting from electronic to mechanical control; but trying to be clever about it - ie: a good setup, not VNT for VNT sake.

I havent tried it yet, I will let you know the results when I have them - engine still in bits, but head has been ported, block has been bored....

Can you move a thread??

Cheers,

 

[Dougal]

OK, happy to share.

My CT26 could boost to 27psi, but I used a bigger diameter exducer compressor wheel with 49mm inducer; and stronger.

The first, simplest and cheapest mod is to fit a Supra CT26 Compressor cover and wheel. Changes inducer from 40mm to 44.45mm and this makes a huge difference.

Limit boost to 17-18psi to get the most out of it - mostly the vanes start to bend.....

I started a thread for my perfromance 12H-T buyild in the 60 series section - should have started it here!!!!!

The other problem is the turbines dont flow well after ~ 2200rpm, so back cutting the blades *might* be the way to go. I am going to experiment with this on my compound turbo setup.....so don't blame me if you do it and loose your bottom end boost

As for VNT, I was lucky enough to find a turbo with the CT26 flange. It is a GT2560 and I converting from electronic to mechanical control; but trying to be clever about it - ie: a good setup, not VNT for VNT sake.

I havent tried it yet, I will let you know the results when I have them - engine still in bits, but head has been ported, block has been bored....

Can you move a thread??

Cheers,

What's your GT2560 from? Turbomaster show a GT2560V but the part number shows up as a GT2260V. That's from a BMW 3 litre diesel.
Part Number 728989-0015 - Search Applications in TurboMaster
I have a GT2256V which I haven't fitted to anything yet.

The supra compressor with bigger trim will surge more easily, could be an issue trying to get high boost at lower rpm.

The big problem with the CT26 range is noone has any maps for them or even temperature measurements so you can work out the efficiency.

 

[gbentink]

The Supra compressor would in theory surge more easily, but in real life, when you consider the turbine and exhaust housing bolted on etc, it will not happen. I have driven a 1HD-T with this exact mod, it was manual, so I could load it right up, and it absolutely hauled, with no surge and was on 14psi, so I increased to 18psi, smoke went away and it pulled harder. That was intercooled also.

The automatic has a smaller A/R housing, however given that it is auto, the torque converter makes it a mute point. My 80 locked up at 38mph, even then it didnt surge and I had an even bigger trim wheel on it - all this with the smallest exhaust housing. So with the larger housing of the manual, it makes it less of a problem.

I hope that is clear enough; if not, "it wont surge"

The compressor wheel from the 7M-GTE is the easiest and best mod and the wheels, even new are so cheap.

There are no MAPs for the CT26 wheels, but it really doesnt matter a bit, because so many have done it to it's max on 3SGTE, 7MGTE, 12H-T, 1HD-T, 1HD-FT that you can back calculate the data to see if it will work for you. I have housings for all except the 1HD-FT. Even pertols can be back calculated to Diesel if you know how

 

[Dougal]

There are no MAPs for the CT26 wheels, but it really doesnt matter a bit, because so many have done it to it's max on 3SGTE, 7MGTE, 12H-T, 1HD-T, 1HD-FT that you can back calculate the data to see if it will work for you. I have housings for all except the 1HD-FT. Even pertols can be back calculated to Diesel if you know how

Any chance you can pack a lump of clay into the necks of those housings and measure the A/R's for us?
The only reliable data I've found on the CT26's is from Mellett, they only show one turbine wheel, 3 different turbine housings (round port) and 2 compressor wheels (42 and 45.5mm intake).

I have no problem calculating turbo flow, but creating a map requires hundreds of data points. There's no substitute for that. Even measurements of boost pressure vs temperature would help greatly. But there are none.

 

[gbentink]

Sorry, forgot to answer your question on the DT VNT.

It measures as a GT25 Turbine, it has a 52 trim 60mm compressor, so only good for 150kw @ flywheel.

I was very lucky to "find" it. Think HINO, think latest, think similar capacity!

The BMW I believe is 60 or 62 trim, but I could be wrong - it is at least 56 trim. It is hard to find an alternative compressor, because shaft size is only 5mm, this is why I am concerned about shearing the shaft off when using the compound turbo due to extra torque required. If it does, I will use an old heavy shaft wheel and machine it to suit - that brings a heap more compressor options such as 16G small wheel or GT28RS wheel etc etc.

I can tell you one thing that you know already, turbos have come a long way. This turbo is a thing of beauty, the way the vanes move - wow! I doubt very much I could find another one either!

I also have a GT3782VA from a 2004 Powerstroke. I would use that if I had the manual; electronics is a hobby and a DIY controller would be a must. Not an easy implementation, but 700nm @ 2000rpm could be had - I seen in in my Brothers TD42! I made a makeshift controller, but he stopped using it because his fuel pump wasnt setup properly and it made peak power at 2400rpm! He assembled the pump himself, and it was his first go, so there you are. He now has a stroked Aussie V8 in his racer with 250hp @ wheels, but heaps of torque. I keep telling him to go diesel (he is a heavy duty diesel mechanic for Detroit/MTU) but he is reluctant due to cost. I argued the point, but in the end he is right.

Anywa, way way off topic, sorry

 

[Dougal]

Sorry, forgot to answer your question on the DT VNT.

It measures as a GT25 Turbine, it has a 52 trim 60mm compressor, so only good for 150kw @ flywheel.

I was very lucky to "find" it. Think HINO, think latest, think similar capacity!

The BMW I believe is 60 or 62 trim, but I could be wrong - it is at least 56 trim. It is hard to find an alternative compressor, because shaft size is only 5mm, this is why I am concerned about shearing the shaft off when using the compound turbo due to extra torque required. If it does, I will use an old heavy shaft wheel and machine it to suit - that brings a heap more compressor options such as 16G small wheel or GT28RS wheel etc etc.

I can tell you one thing that you know already, turbos have come a long way. This turbo is a thing of beauty, the way the vanes move - wow! I doubt very much I could find another one either!

I also have a GT3782VA from a 2004 Powerstroke. I would use that if I had the manual; electronics is a hobby and a DIY controller would be a must. Not an easy implementation, but 700nm @ 2000rpm could be had - I seen in in my Brothers TD42! I made a makeshift controller, but he stopped using it because his fuel pump wasnt setup properly and it made peak power at 2400rpm! He assembled the pump himself, and it was his first go, so there you are. He now has a stroked Aussie V8 in his racer with 250hp @ wheels, but heaps of torque. I keep telling him to go diesel (he is a heavy duty diesel mechanic for Detroit/MTU) but he is reluctant due to cost. I argued the point, but in the end he is right.

Anywa, way way off topic, sorry

There's some interesting discussion on 4btswaps right now about electronic control of the VVT turbos. They're focusing on the holsets but if your turbo is PWM their methods may work.

BMW get 150kw from their 3L diesels with the GT2560V, since you've got a bigger trim and aren't meeting euro 5 emissions I bet there's a lot more in store.
The only figures I've been able to find for factory diesel A/F ratios is 22:1 max, if you want to go richer there's more than 150kw in there.

*edit*
Do you know what turbo the new V8 70 series have? I can't find anything on it and I haven't been able to see any codes on the ones I've looked at either.
*/edit*

 

[gbentink]

Regarding Clay, I hope to be checking the piston to valve clearance in my 12H-T soon (within a month). I know that is not so soon, but I am in no hurry and have to finish painting the car etc etc. It is half way at the moment - some rust in roof, sure you people have been there!

Each ex housing has a different number on it. The 3S-GTE housing is dual entry, but the others are all round. I tried the 7M-GTE housing but boost for the auto was plain terrible - never mesured back pressure or anything though or peak power. Using the bigger trim wheel just means it doesnt run into choke flow at higher boost/revs. the wheel diameter is 65mm (all of them), the inducers I have measured are 1.57" and 1.75". That is the compressor wheels themselves, the the housings that allow for clearance. I think "CT20B" has 1.83" inducer, but might have smaller exducter than 65mm. Used on late 3S-GTE and VVTi 1JZ-GTE.

7M-GTE has visibly bigger throat. I expect it is something like 0.42 for the auto 1HD-T and 3S-GTE and 0.64 for the 7M-GTE.

But after all of this, testing is testing, and I can assure you 100% that these babies dont hit surge with any of these housings.

 

[gbentink]

Sorry, the T66 will not work on the 12H-T or any of the Toy 6cyls, or the new V8. Way too big. Think Disco Potato for an easy setup for up to 210rwhp