Once again..debate on the right oil for 1HD-T and other old Toyota diesel engines. (4 Viewers)

[Cañonero]

Sorry this same post is on Lcool and tlocuk, but I'd like to know the opinions from the people in ih8mud.

My 1HD-T have started using some oil (not much, just 0.21l / 1000km, but it didn't use any) so I've been researching about the best oil to use in my 80, and, in the Lcool forum I've been told to look for a J-spec oil with JASO/DH-1 spec.

The only one I could find in the spanish and english markets is the Texaco ursa TD 15-40W, with has some great features appart from having the JASO/DH-1 spec, but Texaco recommends it for use in heavy duty truck and bus operations. It allows from drain intervals up to 45000 km!. And the best of all is the price: 20 liters for 32 pounds.

Here is the data sheet (in spanish, I couldn't find it in english): http://www.texaco.es/es/docs/fichas_tecnicas/automocion/URSA TD15W-40.pdf
And the UK distributor site: http://www.texaco-online.co.uk/index.html?lub2b.html

There is a post in whatdieselcar.com forum from a guy that looks very knowledgeable in engines oils, called "Jon the combustion engineer" recommending this oil to use in a Citroën Xsara, so it seems it's not a problem to use it in small cars. He also explains the API rating, what is really usefull. According to that, this oil has a better quality (API CI-4), than a Castrol Magnatec that costs 4 times more (API CF). I don't understand it!

This is the post:

What Diesel Car | The Forum

Till here, everything looks great, but in the next post, he states: "Once the lubricant has gone past CH it is classed as a SHPD - Super High Performance Diesel Engine Oil. I would warn however that extra duty oils can cause more harm than good if the vehicle is driven gently all the time and the brakes used little and the gears used to brake alot. This is because excessively gentle driving or long periods of idling lead to bore glazing and polish. Just shows that diesels are designed to work - and work hard!"

This last thing worries me a little, as this oil is a CI-4, it's sure SHPD. I wonder what does he mean with "driven gently all the time". I also wonder if shortening oil changes would help with the bore glazing thing.

What do you think?. I believe it looks like a great oil at a great price, and has the J-specs, that's what I was looking for, but the fact that Texaco recommends it for big trucks and buses and this bore glazing thing makes me hesitate.

To make thinks unclearer, here is some literature:

Here, it's stated that the SHPD oils causes bore glazing: Bore glazing

In this article they say the SHPD oils create bore glazing but just on the running in period of a new or reconditioned engine, but then they recommend SHPD oils as they prevent cylinder bore polishing. http://www.ferobrake.co.za/ktml2/fi...ng Diesel/Diesel - Engine Oil Consumption.pdf

Here, there is a brochure of Gulf Western oil when they advertise their J-Power oil (with the same specifications as Texaco Super TD) that it "protects against bore glazing in stationary engines"
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/Web Images/GW Bochure_09_lr.pdf

Here in Total Uk, it's said that bore glazing occurrs in early engine life. Glossary

What do you think?

 

[Tapage]

Mmm well actually I hope I can get here those variety of oils just to choose the right one .. but I just use the best that I can get here ..

Castrol CRB 15W-40 I Hope I can get one like 10W-50 in C series diesel oil ..

 

[Natty]

Shell Rotella 15-40 for 1HD-T... nice!

 

[Natty]

Oh, just noticed you are across the pond, but it should be available there?

 

[Cañonero]

Hello Natty.

Yes, it's similar to the Texaco I posted before (even exceeds some specifications), but it doesn't have the JASO/DH-1 specifications.

Anyway, do you think the reason to use the JASO/DH-1 oil is to avoid Big End Bearings problems or is there something else?

I'm changing the Big End Bearings with the ACL's that doesn't seem to have the same problem as the Toyota ones with non Japanese oils, but maybe still is a good idea to use the JASO/DH-1 oil.

 

[Joe Egolf]

I am using Rotella 15/40 .I think frequent [3000KM]oil and FILTER changes are the key and any quality diesel rated Oil is probably OK - my2c worth

 

[onefsatchevy]

food for thought.... A lot of company's are starting to include maintenance on their vehicles when you buy new now. Ford (the one I know about) is doing this now, and even on their heavy duty diesels being sold as work trucks in the oil patch (and if you don't know, in the oil patch around Edmonton the trucks get the living HELL beat out of them). And they are only changing the oil every 12,000 Kms, yes that's twelve thousand, for warranty, and are having no problems. The whole change your oil every 5000 Km's comes from 50 years ago, oil technology has come a long way, as has the fuel we burn.

Now I think 12 000 Kms on an old motor may be a stretch, buy I run 7500 between changes and have no issues. Of course I run full synthetic (typically mobil1, or Royal Purple) and only put in Shell V-Power diesel, but my 1HD-T is now pushing 250 000 kms and I only lose 1/2 a liter per change, and still purring like a kitten.

Unless your running in REALLY dusty conditions, or are working the pants off the truck, there is no need for anything more than that. Run good oil, and a good filter and you won't have a problems due to oil. The good stuff is all good no matter what brand, even though in some cases haven't got this or that certification. I will bet that it is because they already have one that exceeds it, or don't bother spending the money to get said certification.

Just my $0.02......

 

[BJ-44]

I wouldn't worry about the finding Japanese spec for the oil as long as it as the oil has a CF or higher rating. C means Diesel and The second letter is the rating, the higher then letter the better the lab test rating.

"In this article they say the SHPD oils create bore glazing but just on the running in period of a new or reconditioned engine, but then they recommend SHPD oils as they prevent cylinder bore polishing."

The key here is new or reconditioned engine meaning you don't want to use this type of oil or a synthetic until a new or reconditioned engine until it has broke in. I made this mistake once when I rebuilt the engine in my Galaxie and 12,000 miles later three of the cylinders had rings that never broke in causing it to burn oil. I had to tear the engine down and hone the cylinders and put new rings in it. The synthetic worked so well it didn't allow the rings the break in (slightly wear and seat to the cylinder walls). The cylinders looked like the day it was honed after 12,000 miles.
Look for the Products that Carry the API Quality Marks

"This program is a cooperative effort between the oil industry and vehicle and engine manufacturers Ford, General Motors, and DaimlerChrysler; the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association; and the Engine Manufacturers Association."

 

[jake2far]

Chevron DELO 15-40. It is great diesel engine oil. 5000km between changes and a good oil filter, a good oil is worthless with a poor quality filter. A good filter is as important as your oil.

Jim

 

[valdezhilander]

X2 on the Chevron Delo 400 15W40, very good additive package and very reasonably priced. If I couldn't get Delo I'd use Rotella 15W40, that stuff has been used in the Outback in land trains for years.

 

[jb BJ73]

i use mobil delvac mx 15w-40 in my bj73. doesn't use a drop of oil and done about 200,000km (PO done a rebuild on it i think). delvac mx is CI-4 rated. the problem with glazing is definately related to running in. i work for an isuzu truck dealership and we had one that was sitting at a minesite idling for long periods waiting for its load, then would drive a couple hundred metres, dump it, then go back and repeat it, constantly, for a couple of days at a time. was always giving us problems with the diesel particulate filter getting blocked and the truck going into limp mode. they come from the factory with a semi-synthetic oil, CJ-4 rated, so they have to be run in hard for the rings to bed in.
but apparently bores can glaze when you idle for excessive periods, like over 10 minutes at a time regularly.
the thing to watch out with petrol motor oils (like castrol magnatec) is they don't have a high diesel rating. the higher the rating the better it can handle things like soot, and have better shear strength. so the higher the api or equivalent rating, the better.

 

[Stone]

If anyone is worried about their oil or service interval, the thing to do would be to take in a sample for a used oil analysis...IMO.

 

[canucksafari]

X2 on the Chevron Delo 400 15W40, very good additive package and very reasonably priced. If I couldn't get Delo I'd use Rotella 15W40, that stuff has been used in the Outback in land trains for years.

In Canada, this is the only oil which has the JASO DH-1 rating. The thing which makes this different is the calcium ppm.

If anyone is worried about their oil or service interval, the thing to do would be to take in a sample for a used oil analysis...IMO.

That said, most modern diesel oils have better lube and detergent qualities than the old JASO DH-1 rated oils. Like stone says, the only true way to know if your oil is meeting your engine needs is to have it tested.

I have used the following dino oils: Delo 400 (now nearly $100 a bucket ), Shell Rotella (about $65 a bucket) and recently Castro Tection Extra (about $65 a bucket - sale price at Western Star). BTW, I also use these oils in my wife's Tercel. They help to slow down the oil consumption and also their higher detergent qualities help to keep that dirty little engine cleaner than regular gasoline engine oil.

 

[Cañonero]

Well, I talked with some oil expert yesterday and he confirmed what you say: that the bore glazing thing only influences the new or reconditioned engines in 99% of the cases. It could influence an old engine with continuated long periods of idling.

Moreover, most of you use shpd oils without issues (Rotella, Delo 400, Castrol Tection, mobil delvac). The Texaco super TD 15W-40 I'm looking at is very similar to all these so I might be ok with it.

I may be able to get the Delo 400, that seems to be your favourite here, but it will cost almost twice as much as the Texaco with similar specifications, so I don't know it the extra spending is worth.

I agree that changing the oil every 3000 km with this high quality oils may be excesive. The Texaco dealer I talked to told me that this oil is used by some of his customers in big trucks with drain intervals of 50.000 km without problems. Of course you can't compare a 18 liter big truck diesel engine with ours, but again 3000 km seems like too often.

It's curious that all these shpd oils are mineral and 15-40, and they exceed the specifications of every 5-40 or 0-40 fully synthetic car oil I looked at.

I've been told that fully synthetic will increase oil consumption in these old engines as it's thinner, but the theory is that, when hot, a 15-40 will be exactly as thin as a 5-40, isn't it?

By the way, some people I talked about this issue in Spain (even mechanics) told me "you are crazy, how are you going to use an oil recommended for heavy machinery in your car? you are going to ruin your engine. If you want extra protection, run a fully syntetic"

I feel more confident seeing that most people here do it without problems.

 

[canucksafari]

You can tel them it isn't a small car engine - it is a diesel engine - and yes, I ran it in the small gas engine without issues. From what i understand on some of the Aussie forums, it is fairly normal for a person to run the same oil in all his vehicles and machinery - especially a farmer who buys it by the 45 Gal drum.

Personally, the most important thing you can do for the longevity of your engine is to change your oil and filters every 5000 kms (especially using dino oil). Yes, you can get longer drain intervals with synthetics but you should be testing to see when it is best. Theoretically, the 1HDT should be able to go longer between changes than a 2H or a 3B, as it does not create the amount of soot the older engines generate. Other things you can do to extend the drain time is to add a by-pass filter. It'll give you better filtering and also increase your oil volume.

 

[jasonmt]

food for thought.... A lot of company's are starting to include maintenance on their vehicles when you buy new now. Ford (the one I know about) is doing this now, and even on their heavy duty diesels being sold as work trucks in the oil patch (and if you don't know, in the oil patch around Edmonton the trucks get the living HELL beat out of them). And they are only changing the oil every 12,000 Kms, yes that's twelve thousand, for warranty, and are having no problems. The whole change your oil every 5000 Km's comes from 50 years ago, oil technology has come a long way, as has the fuel we burn.

We have 1-2006, 2-2007 and 3-2009 Ford diesel pickups and none of them have had maintenance included as part of the purchase price.

Any kind of oil patch service is going to make the trucks maintenance schedule fall under the "Severe Service" category which leaves you here if you want to maintain your warranty:

• 6.0L:
  Oil Filter: 5,000 miles, 200 engine hours or 3 months
  Fuel Filters: 10,000 miles, 400 engine hours or 6 months

• 6.4L:
  Oil Filter: 5,000 miles, 200 engine hours or 3 months
  Fuel Filters: 10,000 miles, 400 engine hours or 6 months

 

[Cañonero]

Yes, I don't care doing 5000km oil changes. I don't cover high mileages and this Texaco shpd oil is not expensive. Toyota recommends oil every 5000km and filter every 10000 km.

But, about this, there is a very interesting post that makes you think for a while if the 5000 km change thing is well done:

used oil better than new? - Bob Is The Oil Guy

 

[9180ltd]

heres a oil analsys for a few oil changes on my 1HD-T the oldest was pennzoil HD 15w40 the others were delo 400 MULTIGRADE 15W40, Not to be confused with delo 400 15w40...... 2 different detergent/additive packs, There is only 2 on this sheet. I could not get a recent one uploaded.

 

[onefsatchevy]

Hey jasonmt, sorry my bad... Severe duty is 5000 km, but regular use is 10,000 km...

this is straight from Fords web site...

Limited Maintenance Plan (LMP)

The LMP covers the following regular maintenance services:

* Engine oil and filter changes
* Multi-point inspection
* Tire rotation
* Roadside assistance
* Emergency maintenance services including flat tire change, fuel delivery, and battery jump start
* Lockout assistance
* No charge towing to the nearest Ford or Ford-Lincoln dealer

Eligible vehicles include current and eight prior year models with fewer than 160,000 km. Consult your dealer regarding complete vehicle eligibility. The Limited Maintenance Plan cannot be cancelled or transferred.

Choose a plan length based on your driving habits. For normal driving conditions, choose a normal maintenance schedule (every 6 months/10,000 kilometres). For more intense driving conditions, take advantage of our Special Operating Conditions schedule (every 3 months/5,000 kilometres).



If your not getting this service included in purchase price, you should be, all the fleets I know do.....

 

[canucksafari]

I don't think you can compare oil change intervals with a 1HDT with older (indirect injected) Toyota diesel engines. You especially can not comapre it to Ford diesel engines. They are totally different beasts. The soot loading will be signifcantly greater in the older engines. Unless you are doing something to filter out the soot, you are likely going to get maximum soot loading around 6,000 kms - especially if you are a short trip driver. A sure sign of it is increased oil pressure as the soot thickens your oil.