Should I buy an 80, costs of ownership?

[cruiserdan]

There have been a few recent threads where questions have come up looking for cheap stuff or easy answers. In response to that I would like to offer some observations.

The 80 Series Land Cruiser was, at the time, Toyota's Flagship vehicle in the United States. When new the 80 sold from the mid 30 thousand dollars (for 91-92 year model examples) to the low to mid 40's (for 93-94) to a bit past 50 thousand dollars for the last production 97 models.

During the production run the 80 rarely sold for less than the factory sticker and often for more. They were always in short supply and coveted by dealers. I bought mine new and it took me almost a full year to get it.

Obviously the "new" has worn off for virtually all of the original owners so they parted with them and we now see second, third, and even fourth, owners showing up on the board.

Those of you who fall into the latter category did not buy a 10,000 dollar or 9,000 dollar or even a substantially cheaper vehicle. You bought a used vehicle that, in many cases, sold for close to 50 grand new.

The care and feeding of a top-end luxury vehicle DOES NOT depreciate like the vehicle does. Parts and labor costs only go up.

The only way to really be able to afford one is to enter into the relationship with eyes wide open and the commitment to learn to work on it and care for it yourself. Or, have the resources to pay somebody WHO KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS the vehicle to look after it on your behalf.

It should further be mentioned that to morph an 80 into what ammounts to the most capable production 4WD vehicle ever offered by any manufacturer will cost at least 6000 bucks, if you supply the sweat. This only takes into consideration the mods, not the PM's to get the vehicle up to speed.




That being said, my relationship with my 80 has been one of the most satisfying parts of my life.


D-

[DanKunz]

*claps*....well said!

[Cruisin'Carolina]

most excellent!

[LX_TREME]

Almost 10 yrs and still original owner here....purchased top of the line, full packaged, locked $53K taxes, fee etc...but ssttt...wife didn't know spend another $50K the mod's mostly TTE stuff - Toyota Team Europe and JDM custom.

Sometimes I laughed myself reading from the forum people buying 80s for $6K My 80s rims cost $6K..custom light weight 3 pcs.

[74TLC]

Thanks for the words of wisdom... To hopefully get people like me who wait until nice cars get 10+ years old to when they get "affordable" to purchase but the parts are still priced like a current made 50k$ vehicle. Kind of hard to swallow for people on a tight budget or just hoping the initial investment will suffice for awhile even though it never happens for me....
I just got my first 80, a 91 for $2500 and is really in nice shape for the price. Even at 250k mi I feel like it was a deal even though it has a pretty bad "klunking" when letting off the fuel and reapplying. I knew it needed a brake booster when I got it(even though it had only been replaced a yr ago) but only drove it for 2 days and found the radiator has sprung a leak...bummer. I really want to install a non Toyota diesel in it (MB, Isuzu, Cummins or 6.5) but it sounds like a project that is going to be beyond my financial means and or mechanical abilities. Any new ideas on this would be appreciated.
Either way I hope to like this cruiser enough to keep it forever.

[tech_dog]

Yeah... but the cupholders suck.

[Safado]

Well said Dan, hopefully more will see the beauty of ownership.

[WildHare]

Thank you for the important heads up on the topic. You put it succinctly, and accurately. This question is asked very often.

Even though I don't own an FJ80 right now ('85 4Runner), I can attest that building and maintenance are both time and $$ intensive. However, the working product is well worth it. I spent about $5k building up my vehicle (suspension and e-lockers, for the most part), over the course of 2 years. And now, out of necessity, it serves as my daily driver. All hail Toyota engineering!

I can't wait to get my 80 after I graduate in December. I figure about 1 year to save up for and buy a good example.

-Dan

[Ting]

Good words Dan…If you really want to know how good LC is you should ask people in Asia, Africa, and some third world countries where I came from. A used Land Cruiser will cost you ~ half a million in Burma. They pay cash too, no financing available. Only ultra rich people can buy cruiser. We are very lucky here in US where used car depreciate fast and furious.

[jonheld]

This is an interesting thread. I am the original owner of my 91 FJ80. Drove it off the dealer's lot in July 1991 after waiting for the right one to come in from Japan. At that time the majority of them were being shipped to the gulf war for UN personnel. I think we ordered it in March. Well worth the wait IMO. We got a good one. It has been the single most reliable vehicle overall that we have ever owned. It has come to the rescue time and time again, and all it wanted for the first 100K miles was fuel, tires, and brakes. I changed oil and filter every 2-4K miles, tranny fluid drain/refill every third oil change, coolant, brake fluid every spring, full tune up every 2 years. Parts that wear out are replaced by OEM parts...always. It's now 16 years old and still going strong (knocking on wood). If the body can hold out from the rust that's starting to eat at the doors and the frame thats getting a bit scaley, it'll last another 16.

[beno]

Originally Posted by jonheld

This is an interesting thread. I am the original owner of my 91 FJ80. Drove it off the dealer's lot in July 1991 after waiting for the right one to come in from Japan. At that time the majority of them were being shipped to the gulf war for UN personnel. I think we ordered it in March. Well worth the wait IMO. We got a good one. It has been the single most reliable vehicle overall that we have ever owned. It has come to the rescue time and time again, and all it wanted for the first 100K miles was fuel, tires, and brakes. I changed oil and filter every 2-4K miles, tranny fluid drain/refill every third oil change, coolant, brake fluid every spring, full tune up every 2 years. Parts that wear out are replaced by OEM parts...always. It's now 16 years old and still going strong (knocking on wood). If the body can hold out from the rust that's starting to eat at the doors and the frame thats getting a bit scaley, it'll last another 16.

And, I might add that Jon does not baby his 80 series...in fact he beats the living crap out of it!

[e9999]

this is a great point, Dan. Well worth making.

Now, to help some folks figure out the costs, how about we post the cost of a few major mods and repairs:

I'll take a stab (will correct if wrong or remove if out of line) at some (rough) costs from memory:

Vehicle specific Mods:
- Basic 2" lift: $800
- Serious 4"-6" lift with all accoutrements: $3000
- Front winch-capable bull bar: $800
- Rear HD bumper with tire carrier: $1500-2000
- ARB lockers front and rear if you don't have the OEM: $3000
- Rock sliders: $900
- Safari type Roof rack: $600-1200

and extras:
- Set of 5 reasonable offroad tires: $1200
- Winch: $500-$1200
- Roof top tent: $500-$3000
- CB or Ham radio: $150 - $400


Repairs (DIY / Dealer):
- Front axle overhaul: $300 / 1000
- Headgasket replacement: $500 / 1500

[cruiserdan]

Assumes use of OEM parts, aquired for somewhat under suggested list price:

Brake pads, ~$50 per axle
Front rotors, ~$80 each
Rear rotors, ~ $105 each
Oil filters, ~$5 to ~$10 depending on version chosen

[Jenny Cruiser]

Even the best vehicle is incomplete without a driver. For me the best part of owning an 80 is getting to know other 80 owners. Awesome vehicle, even better group of people.

[DTAYLOR]

I'm getting misty...

[smittycrusher]

GREAT thread. I am actually getting ready to downsize to only one 80. Not because of anything more than my wife being pregnant and is/will have trouble getting herself and the baby in and out of the LX (of course i did just lift it b/c I am a jerk I guess). I am going to take the LX as my DD and sell the white 93' (my current DD). My 93' came factory withiout running boards so switching out with her would still not help much. We have decided to get a sedan (we will keep it in Mr. T's family) for her. I am looking forward to getting much better gas mileage out of her car! Having 2 80's results in a vey expensive gas bill every month. I look at it as a trade off to drive the greatest vehicle ever produced. Others may not be ready for that. I also would be very nervous about having 2 if I were not learning to wrench some. A lot of the maint. costs are offset by doing it myself. If I had to have someone else do it, I don't think I would want to try to keep up (e.g. 2 sets of O2 sensors, 2 PHHs, 2 plugs/wires, 2 rotor/dist. cap, a bunch of Mobil 1, 2 radiator flushes, 2 t-cse/diff. oil changes, etc. this year). After paying for labor my whole life I am very happy to save that coin now.

Great rigs need great parts, great parts need great design/manufacturing, great design--on and on until you get to $. Luckily we have a great way to offset some of that (learn to wrench and feed Dan's dogs at a discount).

Smit

[619TOY]

As soon as I saw the title and before I read the post I thought of the price of the obsession as opposed to the price of the upkeep. I did alot of research before making the decision to purchase an 80 (LX450) and haven't had a day of regret since.

I've surpassed Dan's $6,000 figure in the last month and still haven't had it off the pavement. Waiting ever so impatiently for next weekend. By the time I found mine, I already knew exactly what I wanted to do with it (mods wise), I had a picture(s) in my head. Most of which were of clarkrw3's rig.

Even though we communicate with so many others who share our love of this vehicle, they are still pretty rare to see around. I'm amazed at how many people compliment me on my rig even though alot of them don't even know what it is.

While it would be nice if every 80 owner appreciated what they had as much as we do, that will never be the case. I know that I for one expect to have a life long relationship with mine.

By the way, nice write up Dan!

[Sackman]

Originally Posted by e9999

this is a great point, Dan. Well worth making.

Now, to help some folks figure out the costs, how about we post the cost of a few major mods and repairs:

I'll take a stab (will correct if wrong or remove if out of line) at some (rough) costs from memory:

Vehicle specific Mods:
- Basic 2" lift: $800
- Serious 4"-6" lift with all accoutrements: $3000
- Front winch-capable bull bar: $800
- Rear HD bumper with tire carrier: $1500-2000
- ARB lockers front and rear if you don't have the OEM: $3000
- Rock sliders: $900
- Safari type Roof rack: $600-1200

and extras:
- Set of 5 reasonable offroad tires: $1200
- Winch: $500-$1200
- Roof top tent: $500-$3000
- CB or Ham radio: $150 - $400


Repairs (DIY / Dealer):
- Front axle overhaul: $300 / 1000
- Headgasket replacement: $500 / 1500

forgetting one thing:
...Satisfaction of being able to go Anywhere.... PRICELESS

[450 Cruiser]

I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger on my LX450 if I had fully understood the cost/extent of maintenance on the 80's. I'm glad I was ignorant at that time because this is, in MANY aspects, the best vehicle I've owned...and the only one that has not left me with buyer's remorse.

[TiredIronGRB]

You forgot to mention the 1-2 hours a day reading IH8MUD threads...


Owning a Land Cruiser changes you.

[cruiserdan]

Originally Posted by TiredIronGRB

You forgot to mention the 1-2 hours a day reading IH8MUD threads...

Part-timer...........

[Grench]

Actually, I don't think they're all that expensive. They aren't cheap either. My wife and I plan to drive ours forever.

Quick estimates...

Sandy - '92 FJ80 - Purchase $10,000 in 2000 very clean. Sold $2800 2006 with wrinkled body.
Costs during ownership:
Cats $1200 - in shop
Exhaust $1000 - in shop
Brakes ~ $1000+
Trany ~ $500 parts
Tires ~ $800
Ownership costs over 5 years: $11,300

My Grey truck - '96 FZJ80 - Purchase $13,000 in 2003 w/ minor damage.
Mods: ~$11,000
Maintenance: ~$1,500
I'm into it so far for about $24,500. Planned mods will add another $5,000 or so to it over the next 2 years.
Will never sell it.

Wife's Red truck - '96 FZJ80 - Purchase $9,200 in 2006 bad paint & dings.
White glove insured shipping with pickup: $1,300
Damage done in shipping: $1,700
Time taken for settlement with shipper: 8 months
Settled amount: $1,400
Repainted hood & buffed whole truck: $800
Mods: $450
Maintenance: $250
I'm into it so far for about $12,750. Planned mods will add another $2,000 or so to it over the next 2 years.
Will never sell it.

Over our 80s ownership the last 5 years we've put about $48,000 into them. So, Dan's right. Don't buy one of these for cheap expecting that to be the end of the expenses. If you can't afford to pay cash for one, you probably shouldn't be buying it.

We thought about passing the '92 on to some needy friends who couldn't afford to buy a car. It didn't take much thought to realize that would be more curse than blessing. Thats why I took my time and sold the '92 to someone here on Ih8mud. I wanted to make sure it was going to someone who knew what they were getting into.

If you're willing to maintain it and can afford to own it, these are great vehicles. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, a used Camry would be a better bet.

Above is IMHO. Yeah, you can play with these cheaper. I haven't cut corners on mine and I like it that way. YMMV.

[Jeremiaheaster]

First off, It sounds like half of you guys are loaded. Thats great, I'm not. I'm a total newb around here but I didn't decide to purchase an 80 because they were expensive to keep up, in fact it was just the opposite. I have a small family and my ford escort was not doing the job and my jeeps always sat idle waiting on parts/wrenching. It became a neccesity to own a larger vehicle that could comfotably fit the family and take the place of the jeeps. I have the jeeps up for sale right now. I am figuring on true ownership costs of no more than $1500 bucks a year (not counting gas) and here is how I come up with that figure:

purchase price $7400
imediate mods $1600
Maintenance estimate over the next five years $3000
Sell rig for depreciated price of around $4500

This of course is if everything goes right which is why I have taken the time to Carfax around 15 cruisers, test drive a quarter of those, and finally take one in to my mechanic for a complete inspection. I also insisted on purchasing a vehicle with factory lockers regardless of the fact that I will rarely use them just so my resale value will be as high as possible.

Now compare those figures to my Ford Escort:
Purchased new for 14,000 (total price including interest)
maintenance costs over 6 years aprox. $3700
resale value now maybe $3000 to a dumb buyer.
Cost of ownership if sold now=$2450/year!!!!

Now as a total newby (but hopefully not an ignorant one), I firmly believe that a used and frugally purchased 80 will cost you less to own for the first 5 years than any new car on the market today. Of course long term ownership sets these costs off. My escort thinks its an 80 and sounds like a kitten after 140,000 miles so if I'm lucky it may make it another 5 years without much maintenance eventually making it a very cheap car to own.

I hope you don't have a character limit for new guys because If so I may have outspoken my welcome, lol. And remember I am a newb so if you think I'm crazy go easy!

[Romer]

I have a slightly different take.

Since I do most of the maintenance myself, the truck is actually cheaper to maintain. I haven't done that on any car or truck I have owned, except for my 40's. My wife's car goes to the dealer unless it's something simple.
Since I baselined the truck and fixed stuff that needed fixing after I have bought it, I have had no maintenance issues other than changing oil.
On the other hand, due to wheeling I have had some repairs.

Now the mods can be pricey. A 80 with lockers and sliders, lift and 285's is probably about $2500ish. That is sufficient to wheel the 80 in most places and have no issues. Add a front bumper and thats another $700-$800. Rear Bumper $1400- $2000. So to mod the truck so you can wheel your truck on intermediate trails with little concern for damage or capability, you need $2500- $5000.

Now some of us are just strange and can never finish with a project and want the perfect truck. Supercharger, New HG, Clean Fuel Injector's, Outback Drawers, Frig, 35 tires and re-gearing will set you back another $8000- $10,000 if you want a fully modded truck.

But then my truck is still cheaper than the last 3 I have bought my wife, and I will keep it a lot longer.

Reliability and maintenance to me is not expensive once you get your truck "baselined" and if you do the work yourself . It's the desire for that perfect truck that gets you.


Hmmm, I wonder how much those extended fuel tanks are . . . .