Big Gay 2F Build Tech

Trollhole · 07-29-07, 05:10 PM

A little history on why it's gay.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/sc-upstate-cruisers/167998-big-gay-2f-build.html

But the color is not the focus in this thread.

I'm starting out with an 86 2F.

Little is known about the motor. But it was just currently driven from CA to SC about 3 weeks ago. From what we can tell the motor has over 250k on it possibly more. Ran great. No idea on knowing if it is a rebuild.

Compression numbers were

#1 135
#2 135
#3 135
#4 105
#5 135
#6 135

I wouldn't have touched the top end except for the #4 cylinder had me worried.

My plans are to totally desmog it and add TBI. Top end is going out tomorrow to the machine shop to be redone. I have rebuilt a couple top ends on f motors but never dug into a 2f and never the bottom end. But my goal is to have a nice smooth strong 2f.

So now here is where the tech starts.

Cylinders
#1

#2

#3

#4 the problem cylinder

#5

#6

Rear three cylinders

Front 3

Front three chambers

Rear 3 chambers

other pics

Trollhole · 07-29-07, 05:22 PM

So now the questions.

Due to the low compression on #4 I'm at the least replacing the headgasket and sendin the top end out to be rebuilt.

#1 Should I have the head shaved to add a little better performance? And if so how much?

#2 Considering I can still see the crosshatches on the cylinder walls and no scoring should I just put new rings in and clean the cylinders up?

#3 I'm pulling the pan, should I replace the oil pump while I'm in there?

#4 Also I will have the bottom end open should I replace the rod bearings and main bearings?

#5 I'd like to yank the front pulley. Anyone know the size Of the crank nut and if I could borrow the parts from autozone or advanced auto? I'm assuming I will need a puller.

#6 If the pistons end up being ok is there any benefit in having them balaced with the crank.

#7 Assuming all this other stuff is getting yanked should I go ahaead and yank the crank and replace those bearings also.

#8 Is there that big of a difference in a RV cam vs a OEM cam.

#9 Any other tips I should know?

Poser · 07-29-07, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollhole

So now the questions.

Due to the low compression on #4 I'm at the least replacing the headgasket and sendin the top end out to be rebuilt.

#1 Should I have the head shaved to add a little better performance? And if so how much?

#2 Considering I can still see the crosshatches on the cylinder walls and no scoring should I just put new rings in and clean the cylinders up?

#3 I'm pulling the pan, should I replace the oil pump while I'm in there?

#4 Also I will have the bottom end open should I replace the rod bearings and main bearings?

#5 I'd like to yank the front pulley. Anyone know the size Of the crank nut and if I could borrow the parts from autozone or advanced auto? I'm assuming I will need a puller.

#6 If the pistons end up being ok is there any benefit in having them balaced with the crank.

#7 Assuming all this other stuff is getting yanked should I go ahaead and yank the crank and replace those bearings also.

#8 Is there that big of a difference in a RV cam vs a OEM cam.

#9 Any other tips I should know?

Cut .030 off the head...look at the head where the rocker cover gasket seals...and see if anyone else has ever cut the head...if they have, they may have stamped in what it has been cut.

Run a hone through the cylinders, get some new rings and call it good.

You can replace the pump if you want, but if it has been working, I would run it....take it apart and look at it...if nothing else, turn the gears over....see the 1979 H55 thread for more info on this.

I would roll new bearings in....they are cheap.

Crank nut is 46mm

grant5127 · 07-29-07, 05:40 PM

I would make sure that scoring is gonna clean-up first... looks kinda deep.......

Trollhole · 07-29-07, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant5127

I would make sure that scoring is gonna clean-up first... looks kinda deep.......

When I saw that pic I though the same thing. It was just some carbon that had left that. Inspected all cylinders and all are free of score marks all smooth as glass and all still have the cross hatching.

phocus · 07-29-07, 07:01 PM

Fantastic thread, pictures "ARE" worth a thousand words. I see now I will need to dump my f motor and look for a new one, or do some major machine work.

grant5127 · 07-29-07, 08:08 PM

Yea.. when you get the piston out it will be equality scored.. ( carbon, stuck ring) you can clearly see the path marks.....

Dynosoar · 07-29-07, 08:26 PM

That #1 looks bad I don't think you could hone it out. Does it catch your fingernail if you scrape over it? If so than most likely it wont hone out.

Dynosoar

1973Guppie · 07-29-07, 10:18 PM

great thread, I will need to do the same "inspection" to a 2f here soon for my 55 project, so this info will really help to know what to look for as far as engine condition as I will only want to redo the top end of the engine.

and something to add to the gayness..

Trollhole · 07-30-07, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynosoar

That #1 looks bad I don't think you could hone it out. Does it catch your fingernail if you scrape over it? If so than most likely it wont hone out.

Dynosoar

Just imagine making those marks with a pencil. Thats the extent of which it is on there.

Like I have said the cylinders are free from score marks.

FJBen · 07-30-07, 08:06 AM

Jeez, I'm "de-gaying" my 350....it's purple

but not for long...it's on a stand in my garage...and it will be painted..

Trollhole · 07-30-07, 01:51 PM

Dropped the head off at my machine shop.

$80 to redo the valves and install the oil seals
$60 to shave the head .030
I also decided to have them hone the cylinders since it sounds like I could possibly mess it up. $30 dollars

Best of all they are going to clean all my bolts, parts and whatever I give them for 15 dollars.

Mace · 07-30-07, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollhole

Just imagine making those marks with a pencil. Thats the extent of which it is on there.

Like I have said the cylinders are free from score marks.

You will probably have to say this three more times.

1. shave away
2. Hone and rering..
3. check clearances in the pump, when they are within spec, run it (most likely they will be)
4. Replace the bearings, all of them. It really is not that hard at the point you are..

RV cams are great. I would do it.

You are basicaly going to do a mild rebuild on this motor. Mingt as well do it and not skimp..

Sputnik40 · 07-30-07, 02:09 PM

When I rebuilt my 2F (Capt. Jim's original FJ40) I had to go 020 over and new pistons. I didn't replace the cam or lifters as they all looked good - I'd be sure to double check them. I kinda wished I'd replaced - but dang it runs great with the FI and DUI, so no worries I guess.

I ran a new oil pump - OEM was not cheap!

Getting the timing gear cover assembly just right was tedious - so worried about overtorqueing with the inch/lb's I was really careful. Other than that - easy as pie.

Trollhole · 07-30-07, 02:12 PM

My Toyota Dealer says the main bearing could be #1 #2 #3 #4 and I could have any combination of this. Said they would be stamped on them what the number is. Is this correct?

I'm guessing if I have to hone I will have to yank everything including the cam. Should I also replace those bearings while I'm in there? How hard is that? Any special tools.

Mace · 07-30-07, 02:15 PM

have the shop that is honing your block install the cam bearings..

Trollhole · 07-30-07, 02:21 PM

check

Trollhole · 08-07-07, 07:17 AM

Is there any value to having the crank, pistons and rods balanced while it is out?

Dropped the valve seals off yesterday. Head has already been shaved .030 and the valves have been done.

'74 UA FJ · 08-07-07, 08:28 AM

I would balance them. Engine vibrations will drive you crazy.

Trollhole · 08-08-07, 06:51 AM

Well it's a 2f . I'd expect vibrations. Didn't know if it was worth the $$$ to have it done.

'74 UA FJ · 08-08-07, 07:06 AM

Vibes from an engine running are different from out of balance vibrations. But if you think it's balanced now and you aren't doing anything to throw it out of balance, I guess you could skip it.

Trollhole · 08-14-07, 09:13 AM

Got the head back yesterday. 128$ out the door to install the valve seals, grind the valves and take .030 off the head. Now I have to rip into the lower end and buy main, rod and cam bearings. Any suggestion on a good source that's not going to put a hole in my wallet?

Also I have yet to figure out who to buy my RV cam from. Anybody have a preference?

Feel free to laugh thats why it's that color.

'74 UA FJ · 08-14-07, 09:24 AM

You painted it purple on purpose?

07-30-07, 08:06 AM	#11
FJBen Whitey Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Greeley, Colorado TLCA# 15530 Posts: 2,502	Jeez, I'm "de-gaying" my 350....it's purple but not for long...it's on a stand in my garage...and it will be painted.. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 93 FJZ80 Slee 4"/OMEJ, 35's, 4.88's, ARB's, Metal Tech sliders, ARB with M12000, On Board Air, caster plates, DC drive shaft, Pin7, CDL, adjustable rear uppers, A, homemade rear, Slee Skid Plate, extended brakelines, backup camera, Conferr Rack, Hella's, 96 FZJ80 285's OME 's ride

07-30-07, 01:51 PM	#12
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	Dropped the head off at my machine shop. $80 to redo the valves and install the oil seals $60 to shave the head .030 I also decided to have them hone the cylinders since it sounds like I could possibly mess it up. $30 dollars Best of all they are going to clean all my bolts, parts and whatever I give them for 15 dollars. __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way. Last edited by Trollhole; 04-25-08 at 01:13 PM.

07-30-07, 02:09 PM	#14
Sputnik40 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2005 TLCA# 6187 Posts: 1,435	When I rebuilt my 2F (Capt. Jim's original FJ40) I had to go 020 over and new pistons. I didn't replace the cam or lifters as they all looked good - I'd be sure to double check them. I kinda wished I'd replaced - but dang it runs great with the FI and DUI, so no worries I guess. I ran a new oil pump - OEM was not cheap! Getting the timing gear cover assembly just right was tedious - so worried about overtorqueing with the inch/lb's I was really careful. Other than that - easy as pie. __________________ "The devil made me do it the first time. The second time I done it on my own."

07-30-07, 02:12 PM	#15
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	My Toyota Dealer says the main bearing could be #1 #2 #3 #4 and I could have any combination of this. Said they would be stamped on them what the number is. Is this correct? I'm guessing if I have to hone I will have to yank everything including the cam. Should I also replace those bearings while I'm in there? How hard is that? Any special tools. __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way.

07-30-07, 02:15 PM	#16
Mace what he said Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 10,983	have the shop that is honing your block install the cam bearings.. __________________ I am kinda gay....... My Myspace http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=75712409 "Mary Poppins: In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun and - SNAP - the job's a game."

07-29-07, 05:10 PM	#1
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	Big Gay 2F Build Tech A little history on why it's gay. http://forum.ih8mud.com/sc-upstate-cruisers/167998-big-gay-2f-build.html But the color is not the focus in this thread. I'm starting out with an 86 2F. Little is known about the motor. But it was just currently driven from CA to SC about 3 weeks ago. From what we can tell the motor has over 250k on it possibly more. Ran great. No idea on knowing if it is a rebuild. Compression numbers were #1 135 #2 135 #3 135 #4 105 #5 135 #6 135 I wouldn't have touched the top end except for the #4 cylinder had me worried. My plans are to totally desmog it and add TBI. Top end is going out tomorrow to the machine shop to be redone. I have rebuilt a couple top ends on f motors but never dug into a 2f and never the bottom end. But my goal is to have a nice smooth strong 2f. So now here is where the tech starts. Cylinders #1 #2 #3 #4 the problem cylinder #5 #6 Rear three cylinders Front 3 Front three chambers Rear 3 chambers other pics __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way.

07-29-07, 05:22 PM	#2
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	So now the questions. Due to the low compression on #4 I'm at the least replacing the headgasket and sendin the top end out to be rebuilt. #1 Should I have the head shaved to add a little better performance? And if so how much? #2 Considering I can still see the crosshatches on the cylinder walls and no scoring should I just put new rings in and clean the cylinders up? #3 I'm pulling the pan, should I replace the oil pump while I'm in there? #4 Also I will have the bottom end open should I replace the rod bearings and main bearings? #5 I'd like to yank the front pulley. Anyone know the size Of the crank nut and if I could borrow the parts from autozone or advanced auto? I'm assuming I will need a puller. #6 If the pistons end up being ok is there any benefit in having them balaced with the crank. #7 Assuming all this other stuff is getting yanked should I go ahaead and yank the crank and replace those bearings also. #8 Is there that big of a difference in a RV cam vs a OEM cam. #9 Any other tips I should know? __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way.

07-29-07, 05:40 PM	#4
grant5127 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Marcos,TEXAS Posts: 2,856	I would make sure that scoring is gonna clean-up first... looks kinda deep....... Attached Images __________________ For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

07-29-07, 07:01 PM	#6
phocus IH8MUD Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, GA TLCA# 17968 Posts: 166	Fantastic thread, pictures "ARE" worth a thousand words. I see now I will need to dump my f motor and look for a new one, or do some major machine work.

07-29-07, 08:08 PM	#7
grant5127 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Marcos,TEXAS Posts: 2,856	Yea.. when you get the piston out it will be equality scored.. ( carbon, stuck ring) you can clearly see the path marks..... Attached Images __________________ For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

07-29-07, 08:26 PM	#8
Dynosoar V8J60 - TPI Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SoCal TLCA# 17857 Posts: 1,654	That #1 looks bad I don't think you could hone it out. Does it catch your fingernail if you scrape over it? If so than most likely it wont hone out. Dynosoar __________________ '82 V8J60 - TPI 350 with a Turbo 400 attached to a splitcase, Cable Locker FF rear end, 4" SUA (National Spring), Copper Metalic Has been south to Cabo San Lucas, BCS and North to Port Angels,WA. Call Sign: KI6SMP

07-29-07, 10:18 PM	#9
1973Guppie IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,209	great thread, I will need to do the same "inspection" to a 2f here soon for my 55 project, so this info will really help to know what to look for as far as engine condition as I will only want to redo the top end of the engine. and something to add to the gayness.. Attached Images __________________ Front disc brakes: http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...+brake+dummies 1973 FJ40 - Finished! Vortec/NV4500/ARB's/SOA FJ40 ROTW: http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...uppie%27s+fj40 1970 FJ55 - Restoration Project in the works /2F/AC/PS FJ55 Restoration Thread: http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/102079-guppies-fj55-build-thread.html

07-30-07, 02:21 PM	#17
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	check __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way.

08-07-07, 07:17 AM	#18
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	Is there any value to having the crank, pistons and rods balanced while it is out? Dropped the valve seals off yesterday. Head has already been shaved .030 and the valves have been done. __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way.

08-08-07, 06:51 AM	#20
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	Well it's a 2f . I'd expect vibrations. Didn't know if it was worth the $$$ to have it done. __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way.

08-14-07, 09:13 AM	#22
Trollhole GSMTR Chair Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mauldin, SC TLCA# 15077 Posts: 8,522	Got the head back yesterday. 128$ out the door to install the valve seals, grind the valves and take .030 off the head. Now I have to rip into the lower end and buy main, rod and cam bearings. Any suggestion on a good source that's not going to put a hole in my wallet? Also I have yet to figure out who to buy my RV cam from. Anybody have a preference? Feel free to laugh thats why it's that color. __________________ Marshall Upstate Cruisers The Great Cruiser Part Links Thread Buying a Land Cruiser Guide 73 Fj55 Big Ugly 76 FJ40 ROTW Big Gay 2f Build 75 FJ55 My Build 93 FZJ80 stock everything and staying that way.