Touareg vs LC

[hoser]

Cramped?? Well, have you seen the measurements inside?? The ONLY thing the G-wagen lacks is width (thus hiproom for 3 people in the back), which is a good thing in off-roading. Compare the G-wagen to your 4runner in specs on the inside...you will be surprise!!

I was just curious about the interior dimensions:

G-Class G500 4Runner Sport Edition 4WD V8
Front Headroom (in.) 42.20 39.70
Rear Headroom (in.) 40.00 39.10
Front Legroom (in.) 52.50 41.70
Rear Legroom (in.) 41.90 34.70
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 53.70 58.00
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 56.30 57.20
Front Hip Room (in.) 51.50 55.30
Rear Hip Room (in.) 53.90 55.30

 

[Thai]

I was just curious about the interior dimensions:

G-Class G500 4Runner Sport Edition 4WD V8
Front Headroom (in.) 42.20 39.70
Rear Headroom (in.) 40.00 39.10
Front Legroom (in.) 52.50 41.70
Rear Legroom (in.) 41.90 34.70
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 53.70 58.00
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 56.30 57.20
Front Hip Room (in.) 51.50 55.30
Rear Hip Room (in.) 53.90 55.30

You forgot cargo capacity. The G-wagen can hold 45.2 (with rear seat up) and 79.5 cu ft (with rear seat folded). 4runner = 42.2 and 75.1. So, based on the info, the G-wagen is not bad at all considering that it's much shorter and narrower than the 4runner.

 

[FirstToy]

Uh guys, you can read my posts . I dont think I attacked anyone (well ok, I get my Shotts tease in sorry shotts) or said anything unfair about the gwagen.

I never said anything about the G wagen's offroad capability at all so I don't know were that's coming from. Where is that coming from?

Like I said, it is cramped inside. it's uncomfortable and for the money they charge, it's just not worth it imo. The 100 interior blows it away. I would much rather spend hours in the 100 than 15 min. in the Gwagen.
In that price class, I want everything and the gwagen isnt. The 100 blows it away in comfort, room, reliability, dd duty and just about everything else I find of value.
The only thing I can say about it is has a nice old-school look and offroad capability.

Maybe I would feel different about it if it cost $30-40K but it doesn't. Slap bling on it- yup that is exactly what they did. It would be alot more attractive package if it were a basic, kick ass suv.

How about looking at the whole package and comparing it to Toyota suv's? Would I leave my 4Runner for a G wagen? Nope. Scott, you hit it on the head. Reliability, comfort, design, value, d drivability and Toyota's rep and community all mean more to me than anything the Gwagen offers. The 4Runner has a low gas tank and always has. The 80 has low hanging cats. I mean that one thing is a dealbreaker? Well, not for me. I wish it were tucked up but oh well.

Numbers are one thing but you can sit in it, I mean that Gwagen was a major, major disappointment to me. It's cheap, uncomfortable and yes, cramped. The interior is just plain unappealing. Just as sitting in the 100 was a big surprise as to how good it is.

I can honestly say the Gwagen interests me very little. I can't warm up to the whole package and especially for the msrp$. Ultimate offroad capability is great, so why not drive a M1 tank? I mean that's a total exaggeration but you get my meaning.

The 80 and 100 could pull me out of my current ride. They have the whole package or alot closer than the gwagen.
and what a built up 80 can or cant do compared to a Gwagen? About $40,000 more mods.
C'mon Derek, does it really matter? On the trail, I think they would both do the job fine.

 

[Thai]

This once was DBAG's mantra. Unfortunately, over-engineering had a price, so DBAG started cutting corners to satisfy the bean counters, and now you've got poor quality.

In fact, many people today wonder about the 100 Series in the same way. Why pay $62K+ for a Cruiser when I can get a bigger, more powerful Tahoe for almost half the price? Or even a Sequoia, if I must have Toyota?

The devil is in the details. When people ask me questions like that, I show them the undercarriage, and point out the design details and construction that goes into it. For example, on the 80, I point out the massive control arms. The shock mounts that are up high enough to protect them from most rocks. The same side offset pumpkins. Etc. Same could be said of the G, which is probably why I like it!

Exactly. The only Mercedes that i would recommend is the G-wagen. IMHO, G-wagen is the only Mercedes that is still made like the older Mercedes...the ones that last forever. And it's nice to have a military-engineered vehicle.

TLC has been used worldwide for safaries over the toughest terrains. If you go on Clublexus.com or my forum, you will see me defending the TLC/LX against the GX/4runner owners. TLC costs a lot for a reason!

 

[Thai]

FirstToy,

Are you talking about TLC80 or TLC100?? Or are you just combining the two to put down the G?? It's one or the other.

TLC100 is a nicer package for on-road, but it compromises some off-road capability. The TLC80 is very capable, but it is no better than G on-road (comfort, windnoise, interior layout, etc.). In fact, on-road, i would say the G holds the advantage because of electronic nannies (stability control, 4-channel ABS, brake assist, etc.).

The money they charged went into the things that you do NOT see by sitting in the cockpit...i am sad that, for an "off-roader" like you, you do not see the G-wagen gears.

You do realize that the G-wagen has looked the same for over 25 years!! There has never been a "redesign" or even a reshaping of the exterior! The things that changed are: engine and interior layout. The shape is the same. So, i have no idea what "BLING" they add to bring the price up??!! Even the dame spare tire cover has been this way since 1998. What bling again?? Or are you just talking out of your a$$??!! The G-wagen has always cost a lot relative to other production SUV...and like i said above, there is a reason for it.

Please, don't trash talk about the G...remember, i know a little about 4runners' weaknesses too...and they are more than what you have listed, FirstToyz. Since this is a Land Cruiser forum, i won't elaborate...feel free to PM me to continue this.

How is the interior cheap?? Tell me more.

Stick to the topic...stock vs. stock. For the price, i can mod my G to be even more capable than an M1 tank!! You see the flaw in your logic??

Uh guys, you can read my posts . I dont think I attacked anyone (well ok, I get my Shotts tease in sorry shotts) or said anything unfair about the gwagen.

I never said anything about the G wagen's offroad capability at all so I don't know were that's coming from. Where is that coming from?

Like I said, it is cramped inside. it's uncomfortable and for the money they charge, it's just not worth it imo. The 100 interior blows it away. I would much rather spend hours in the 100 than 15 min. in the Gwagen.
In that price class, I want everything and the gwagen isnt. The 100 blows it away in comfort, room, reliability, dd duty and just about everything else I find of value.
The only thing I can say about it is has a nice old-school look and offroad capability.

Maybe I would feel different about it if it cost $30-40K but it doesn't. Slap bling on it- yup that is exactly what they did. It would be alot more attractive package if it were a basic, kick ass suv.

How about looking at the whole package and comparing it to Toyota suv's? Would I leave my 4Runner for a G wagen? Nope. Scott, you hit it on the head. Reliability, comfort, design, value, d drivability and Toyota's rep and community all mean more to me than anything the Gwagen offers. The 4Runner has a low gas tank and always has. The 80 has low hanging cats. I mean that one thing is a dealbreaker? Well, not for me. I wish it were tucked up but oh well.

Numbers are one thing but you can sit in it, I mean that Gwagen was a major, major disappointment to me. It's cheap, uncomfortable and yes, cramped. The interior is just plain unappealing. Just as sitting in the 100 was a big surprise as to how good it is.

I can honestly say the Gwagen interests me very little. I can't warm up to the whole package and especially for the msrp$. Ultimate offroad capability is great, so why not drive a M1 tank? I mean that's a total exaggeration but you get my meaning.

The 80 and 100 could pull me out of my current ride. They have the whole package or alot closer than the gwagen.
and what a built up 80 can or cant do compared to a Gwagen? About $40,000 more mods.
C'mon Derek, does it really matter? On the trail, I think they would both do the job fine.

 

[expeditionswest]

Like I said, it is cramped inside. it's uncomfortable and for the money they charge, it's just not worth it imo. The 100 interior blows it away. I would much rather spend hours in the 100 than 15 min. in the Gwagen.
In that price class, I want everything and the gwagen isnt. The 100 blows it away in comfort, room, reliability, dd duty and just about everything else I find of value...

...Scott, you hit it on the head. Reliability, comfort, design, value, d drivability and Toyota's rep and community all mean more to me than anything the Gwagen offers. The 4Runner has a low gas tank and always has. The 80 has low hanging cats. I mean that one thing is a dealbreaker? Well, not for me. I wish it were tucked up but oh well...

...Numbers are one thing but you can sit in it, I mean that Gwagen was a major, major disappointment to me. It's cheap, uncomfortable and yes, cramped. The interior is just plain unappealing. Just as sitting in the 100 was a big surprise as to how good it is...

Thanks FirstToy,

That gave me a good picture of your opinion, and I think you do have a very valid point. The 4Runner is likely a better daily driver and overall value. The extra $30k you save over the G would buy a hell of a lot of mods...

...I guess that is why we all like different vehicles. I like the G-Class for all of the reasons it is not appealing to you (Boxy Safari look, compromise of street performance and comfort for OHV performance, unique). And I dont like the 4Runner the reasons you do (DD ride height and interior, modern styling, everyone has one).

That is a somewhat simplified statement, as I really do like the 4Runner. Hell, one of the vehicles I am considering is the GX470, which is built on the 4Runner chassis.

 

[Thai]

Hell, one of the vehicles I am considering is the GX470, which is built on the 4Runner chassis.

Be sure to get the KDSS option!! This is a MUST HAVE option for an off-roader!

 

[FirstToy]

Scott,
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for offroad capability and I like the "boxy safari" look fine but I guess I see no reason to stray from Toyota. I really think they are the finest line of suv's and yes, the value of all that learning and modding is well beyond msrp $.
As much as I tease shotts, gotta say I really like his 100 buildup. Christo's 100 makes me drool (now sold to some lucky guy I guess?).

Bottom line for me is there is nothing more attractive than going up in the Toyota suv line, meaning one day I will own a kick butt LC. Gotta say, I love my 4R and enjoy it alot. Toyota won me over even tho I didn't start out as a fan of the marque. That says alot about Toyota I think.

 

[Thai]

Remind me...when did the G-wagen become "unreliable" or "not durable"?? That's news to me.

And i guess the G-wagen does not have much heritage or worldwide reputation either...certainly not as much as a 4runner.

Also, you mentioned, "shoddy build quality"...can you give me an example???

FirstToyz, can you answer my questions from previous post?? Thanks in advance.

 

[expeditionswest]

FirstToy,

I have made the mistake of buying a vehicle based on capability and appearance only before. My 2001 Discovery ended up being a colossal mistake because it DID NOT perform in the attributes that are most important to what I do (durability and reliability in remote, harsh environs).

That is why I now use only Toyota's for my expeditions and literally 90% of the people who do serious expedition work only use Toyota's (a small percentage use Ford SuperDuties for GVWR).

So why am I even considering a G-Class? It would be a fun, capable and very unique vehicle on the trail, and still be reliable enough for some expedition travel.

I should probably just do the "logical" thing and buy a 100... They are the one vehicle that can honestly do everything well. Nothing great, but everything well...

Oh well, enough from me on this topic. I think this thread has been totally highjacked (sorry )

 

[firetruck41]

Stick to the topic...stock vs. stock. For the price, i can mod my G to be even more capable than an M1 tank!! You see the flaw in your logic??

Why not compare price to price then, say 85k G-wagen vs 85K in a 100LC. I see the G getting smoked for actual $$$ value, if that is a major consideration. I think they look cool as hell, but won't be able to afford one in my lifetime, therefore $$$ enters into the equation.

Re: your earlier post, did you ban FirstToy on your forum because he disagreed with you?

 

[Thai]

Re: your earlier post, did you ban FirstToy on your forum because he disagreed with you?

Why don't you ask him yourself...or register on my forum and ask the members there.

I don't want to go into further details comparing TLC100 to G-wagen...since i do respect the TLC and don't want this to become TLC vs. G-wagen thread. I am jsut defending the G-wagen where the facts about it are wrong.

If you PM me, then we can discuss more.

 

[firetruck41]

I've been on your forum, and you seem quick to jump on those who disagree with you, that's why I frequent a different 4r and Element forum.

As far as 100 vs. Gwag, I know they are both capable, but money comes into the equation for me so I am really trying to decide between 80/100 for my next vehicle, but there are plenty of threads on that It's interesting reading but I'll stay out of the rest of this thread.

 

[Thai]

I've been on your forum, and you seem quick to jump on those who disagree with you, that's why I frequent a different 4r and Element forum.

Sorry to hear that. Well, i guess that you don't like my forum then. I can't make everyone happy, ya know. It's a happy forum for most 4th gen owners.

As stated above, FirstToyz has his reasons and i have mine. I actually don't remember what happened to him...i may have banned him or some other moderator did. Or he may have left the forum on his own. I don't really care either way.

 

[Thai]

As far as 100 vs. Gwag, I know they are both capable, but money comes into the equation for me so I am really trying to decide between 80/100 for my next vehicle, but there are plenty of threads on that It's interesting reading but I'll stay out of the rest of this thread.

I would pick TLC100...it's a more complete vehicle for all-road. If you're not into off-roading a lot, then it's definitely the one to pick. Safety features are higher too in the TLC100.

 

[elchivo]

THE TOUAREG IS JUST LIKE A GERMAN CHEROKEE(quote from a compadre, friend that works for VW / as a Professional mechanic) +don't forget about the ifs and all the other crap. Like to see this little wanabe truck working hard in places like Africa, South America and OZ for a few years and then see what is left from the compact cute-ute. Two totally different vehicles.

 

[dclee]

The 80 and 100 could pull me out of my current ride. They have the whole package or alot closer than the gwagen.
and what a built up 80 can or cant do compared to a Gwagen? About $40,000 more mods.
C'mon Derek, does it really matter? On the trail, I think they would both do the job fine.

And that is exactly why I have an 80 and not a G. ;p

But I still respect the G for what it is: a supremely capable offroad weapon that can take anything short of its big brother the UNIMOG. And afterall, that's really why we buy these vehicles, right? If I wanted luxury, I'd have bought a LS430, heh.

 

[Thai]

Yeah, but a G is more than just a capable off-road vehicle...it is far more civilized than a Hummer H1 or a Jeep Rubicon. You guys make it sound like the G is a horrible vehicle on-road. It is my daily and long distance driver. Have anyone of you actually DRIVEN a G500?? I mean...really drive one.

IMO, the G is far more comfortable than my 2002 4runner and my other brother's Land Rover Disco Series II...and quieter than both too! It is not as comfortable as my brother's LX470, but it's not by far either. Roadnoise is nonexistant and windnoise is surprisingly low for a boxy design (except in heavy windstorm). There is no drivetrain noise. No rattles. I can bet that the Harmon Kardan sound system is probably on-par with the JBL in the newer TLC100 (or even better??). It doesn't lose much to the Mark Levinson on my brother's LX470...it is quite excellent with a CD (radio suck though).

Beyond this, you have the latest on-road safety technology, such as stability control, brake assist, etc... Off-road capability has been discussed.

IMO, this combination of on-road comfort AND off-road capability is gotta worth something. You get all this in stock form...with warranty coverage and without any modification. Not many other SUV can claim this.

Can a TLC80 match all this, even with aftermarket upgrades?? I don't know...and for how much?? Safety electronics, stronger frame, V8 engine, etc. are nearly impossible to upgrade, unless you put out serious cash! Remember, you can't just use the $$ to upgrade the off-roading aspect of TLC80...you have to make it into a more complete vehicle to match the G.

The way i see it...TLC100 places more emphasis on on-road comfort...G-wagen places more emphasis on off-road capability. The G is as a complete package as the TLC100, with slightly different emphasis. Reliability, durability, and heritage are about the same. These are the very reasons why it took me a good four months to decide on which SUV to buy. A lot of research went into my decision. In the end, to be honest, i chose the G-wagen because it's unique (civilian model is about to end), good size (TLC100 is a bit too big for just me and my gf), and a different SUV than my brother.

There's more to the G than what you guys are saying! I hope that you guys can take what i am saying with more consideration.

This is like the argument among Jeep Wrangler owners. When the Rubicon first came out, they all talked about, "for the money, i can buy a cheap jeep and build it up to be even better than Rubicon." You know the mantra, "Jeeps are built, not bought." Of course, those same people now own Rubicons. In fact, Rubicon is a great place to start if you want to modify. Why build when you have all the good stuff installed at the factory by competent engineers AND have a warranty to go with it. My brother's old Jeep Wrangler went the aftermarket route...and the installation was done by a well-respected off-roading shop in Austin TX...guess what?? There were problems with the installations...they screw up the Torsen LSD gears! He now has a Rubicon.

 

[Trollhole]

G, 100, 80, 60, 4-runner, I'm dizzy. You thread hijackers you. ;p

Next you will start saying a 100 is better than a 40.

 

[Thai]

Next you will start saying a 100 is better than a 40.

Well, according to some here, the TLC!00 is a better vehicle because it's more than just an off-roading vehicle.