Rear shock mount bending

[kcjaz]

I was wondering if we can find a new bushing kit from another manufacturer that would fit, like Energy Suspension.

Yes, I think a bushing with a metal sleeve in the middle would fix my problem. I need metal to take the clamp force not rubber. @bloc’s idea of double nutting is the thing I’ll do for now. I looked at Energy Suspension’s web site and they don’t appear to have any straight bushings that would work. I’ll give them a call though. I did find a custom bushing shop but they look more industrial and I doubt would do just 2 bushings.

 

[linuxgod]

Yes, I think a bushing with a metal sleeve in the middle would fix my problem. I need metal to take the clamp force not rubber. @bloc’s idea of double nutting is the thing I’ll do for now. I looked at Energy Suspension’s web site and they don’t appear to have any straight bushings that would work. I’ll give them a call though. I did find a custom bushing shop but they look more industrial and I doubt would do just 2 bushings.

I think the bushing question I have is how it’s supposed to bind. Should the bottom of the shock rotate on the bolt, should the bushing rotate in the shock’s lower mount, or should the bushing bind up and twist?

The OEM shocks bind and twist AFAIK, since you’re clamping to the metal sleeve in the bushing and the mount is itself a sleeve.

I think ARB expected the shock to rotate on the mount and not bind. You could use a smaller bolt and put a sleeve over it, or you could use the current bolt and widen the bushing for a larger sleeve (though you’d give up some bushing meat which isn’t ideal for ride quality).

A double nut might suffice. I feel like the ideal setup is a nut on either side of the backing plate rather than two on one side but either way you have the issue of bolt torque and ensuring it doesn’t come loose

 

[kcjaz]

I think the bushing question I have is how it’s supposed to bind. Should the bottom of the shock rotate on the bolt, should the bushing rotate in the shock’s lower mount, or should the bushing bind up and twist?

The OEM shocks bind and twist AFAIK, since you’re clamping to the metal sleeve in the bushing and the mount is itself a sleeve.

I think ARB expected the shock to rotate on the mount and not bind. You could use a smaller bolt and put a sleeve over it, or you could use the current bolt and widen the bushing for a larger sleeve (though you’d give up some bushing meat which isn’t ideal for ride quality).

A double nut might suffice. I feel like the ideal setup is a nut on either side of the backing plate rather than two on one side but either way you have the issue of bolt torque and ensuring it doesn’t come loose

I think the bottom shock bushing needs to be able to twist. I have found a guy who can make custom poly bushings but I don’t think a poly bushing will flex like rubber. I may be wrong but I think poly bushings are just ment to rotate on their axis.

I suppose I could drop to an M12 or M14 and add a sleeve to go through the bushing and the DOM tube I welded in the bracket. Then the bolt force would be on the sleeve similar to the OEM.

EDIT: FWIW, it doesn’t take mush torque to start squishing the rubber bushings. The bolt threads have silicone grease on them but at 10 ftlb the bushing is probably squished a little more that the 72 lflbs with OEM pin/post. I’ll double nut it with a nylok back nut.

 

[linuxgod]

FWIW M14 lugs torque to 97 ft lbs, so I’d think you’d be fine with m14 or maybe m12 bolts sleeved

 

[kcjaz]

Here is how I think the M14 bolt and sleeve would work. Tightening the nut would compress the sleeve and not over squish the bushing.

Maybe cut the sleeve into two pieces and make one just the length of the bushing. This would make shock removal/install easier (though at the expense of strength.

 

[nwfl4runner]

Here is how I think the M14 bolt and sleeve would work. Tightening the nut would compress the sleeve and not over squish the bushing.
View attachment 4152929
Maybe cut the sleeve into two pieces and make one just the length of the bushing. This would make shock removal/install easier (though at the expense of strength.

With a sleeve, you could probably pass on the washer between the shock and mount.

 

[kcjaz]

With a sleeve, you could probably pass on the washer between the shock and mount.

The BP51 bushing needs the washer (comes with the shock) for a flat bearing surface for the rubber flange of the bushing. W/O the washer, the flat spot on the mount isn’t a large enough diameter.

 

[TeCKis300]

Some things to consider.

- Without enough torque, the bolt will be floating in the bracket sleeve trying to translate damper forces to the axle. In a single sheer configuration. This is not good and the metal will wallow out and/or cyclic shear loading on the bolt will break in time.
- It's unfortunate the BP51 is not using this interface correctly. In the stock config, clamping force is not against the stud. It is clamping a metal bushing sleeve that translates the forces directly to the axle bracket and less on the stud.
- You'll see continued issues, and perhaps it's time to cut losses and get a better engineered damper setup that uses a proper sleeve where your re-worked bolt stud will work much better.

 

[UPR LC]

Or better yet, weld in a boxed tab to make the setup double shear (like the front swaybar link to LCA configuration). Forget the sleeve, keep your bolt as you currently have it.

The bonus is the double shear bracket acts as a skid plate / protector for your shock and you can integrate a rock guard mount at the same time if you prefer.

IMO, the single shear setup is not the way to go for this application.

 

[bloc]

IMO the stock post being in single shear with the ARB bushings is a major reason they are bending in the first place. With the stock shock the sleeve in the lower bushing being clamped in place electively increases the diameter of the post, clearly providing enough heft to avoid bending with not only the stock shocks, or stuff like Kings, but with the extra load on that post that AHC provides. It isn’t an inherently weak system when set up properly.

The 3/4 bolt will no doubt be stronger than the bare (hollow) post, but I agree it will probably rattle like crazy as it wiggles around in that sleeve. And I suspect not be as strong as the stock system with lower bushing sleeve.

 

[kcjaz]

IMO the stock post being in single shear with the ARB bushings is a major reason they are bending in the first place. With the stock shock the sleeve in the lower bushing being clamped in place electively increases the diameter of the post, clearly providing enough heft to avoid bending with not only the stock shocks, or stuff like Kings, but with the extra load on that post that AHC provides. It isn’t an inherently weak system when set up properly.

The 3/4 bolt will no doubt be stronger than the bare (hollow) post, but I agree it will probably rattle like crazy as it wiggles around in that sleeve. And I suspect not be as strong as the stock system with lower bushing sleeve.

Yeah, you and @TeCKis30 may be right. I agree the bolt through sleeve is not completely rigid like a welded post. There is a little play in the Dom tubing and the three-quarter inch hole I drilled for the three-quarter inch bowl but not much, hardly any. The three-quarter inch hole runs about 3 inches in length through the weld boss on the mount and the dom tubing I had welded it inside. While it’s not a tight interence fit, that 3 inches of tubular support should add some strength and resistance to waddling out the hole.

I’ve taken it for a test drive and I don’t hear anything chattering or squeaking or chirping. I’ll take it on a weeklong trip out to Colorado the week after next, which should provide a reasonable shake out of the modified shock mount.

Ultimately, I do plan on getting different shocks, but was wanting to run the rest of this summer with what I got now. I definitely will look into shocks that have a metal sleeved bottom bushing. I’d like to keep the through bolt design, but if it provides continued issues, I can always weld in a solid three-quarter inch rod with an M12 hole threaded for the OEM bolt to put it back to what Mr. T had originally designed

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Yeah, you and @TeCKis30 may be right. I agree the bolt through sleeve is not completely rigid like a welded post. There is a little play in the Dom tubing and the three-quarter inch hole I drilled for the three-quarter inch bowl but not much, hardly any. The three-quarter inch hole runs about 3 inches in length through the weld boss on the mount and the dom tubing I had welded it inside. While it’s not a tight interence fit, that 3 inches of tubular support should add some strength and resistance to waddling out the hole.

I’ve taken it for a test drive and I don’t hear anything chattering or squeaking or chirping. I’ll take it on a weeklong trip out to Colorado the week after next, which should provide a reasonable shake out of the modified shock mount.

Ultimately, I do plan on getting different shocks, but was wanting to run the rest of this summer with what I got now. I definitely will look into shocks that have a metal sleeved bottom bushing. I’d like to keep the through bolt design, but if it provides continued issues, I can always weld in a solid three-quarter inch rod with an M12 hole threaded for the OEM bolt to put it back to what Mr. T had originally designed

I have 4130 CrMo machined pins with proper threads if you need later on. Use them on my 60 series upper shock crossmembers.

 

[kcjaz]

Or better yet, weld in a boxed tab to make the setup double shear (like the front swaybar link to LCA configuration). Forget the sleeve, keep your bolt as you currently have it.

The bonus is the double shear bracket acts as a skid plate / protector for your shock and you can integrate a rock guard mount at the same time if you prefer.

IMO, the single shear setup is not the way to go for this application.

Yes, I have thought about that too and agree it would be better. I would not want it to make installation or removal of the shock harder, but I think that could be worked out as I plan to get new shocks this coming winter. I don’t wanna start welding in modifications until I know what I’m gonna get.

 

[kcjaz]

I have 4130 CrMo machined pins with proper threads if you need later on. Use them on my 60 series upper shock crossmembers.

View attachment 4153110

Awesome. How long are they? They need to be about 4 inches long to run it all the way to the backside of the axle amount.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Awesome. How long are they? They need to be about 4 inches long to run it all the way to the backside of the axle amount.

I'll verify but 4" +/- 1/8" IIRC.

 

[kcjaz]

Just got back from a 9 day overlanding trip through Colorado to Moab and back. About 2400 total miles with about 900 off road. Some of the off-road included some technical rock crawling and fun flexing situations and some higher speed curvy dirt roads with lots of drainage dips. The modified shock mounts seems to have performed fine. I took a couple shock mounts hits but never got hung up and flexed the suspension to its limits. Im going to pop the lower eyelets off and take a look at the bushings to assess them.

I did order a set of Kings and they showed up while I was gone. While the BP51s have performed fine for me, just looking at the Kings, you can tell the BP51s are not in the same league.

I’m trying to decide if I’m going to self install or just take the Kings to a shop. I’ve pulled the front struts once to swap the OEM struts back on my previous 200 but it was on a lift (I’m know I could do it on the ground in my garage but after owning a lift, I really hate crawling around an the floor). My lift is 130 mile from KC where I live. My worry is the alignment after I swap the front struts. There are no alignment places anywhere near my lake house that let do the alignment. I could try to mark the alignment cams and just try to put it back the way it is and then drive back to KC to get an alignment. I’m just don’t want to excessively wear my tires.

 

[bloc]

Yeah kings are just a whole different level. And as you probably noticed, an actual proper lower mount bushing/spacer configuration.

Getting the tabs back to the marks should be fine to get you to an alignment shop, unless your ride height changes substantially.

I will say I had to dial a decent amount of preload into one of the fronts to get the rig level after install.. so make sure you have a way to turn the adjusters. The included tools require you to remove the whole shock for adjustment. IIRC the holes in the adjuster are 8mm.. if you get something in there you can use a spanner or even a rubber mallet to tap them around and do the adjustment while clearing the shock tower.. with them installed.

 

[kcjaz]

Yeah kings are just a whole different level. And as you probably noticed, an actual proper lower mount bushing/spacer configuration.

Getting the tabs back to the marks should be fine to get you to an alignment shop, unless your ride height changes substantially.

I will say I had to dial a decent amount of preload into one of the fronts to get the rig level after install.. so make sure you have a way to turn the adjusters. The included tools require you to remove the whole shock for adjustment. IIRC the holes in the adjuster are 8mm.. if you get something in there you can use a spanner or even a rubber mallet to tap them around and do the adjustment while clearing the shock tower.. with them installed.

Ben at Filthy did mention something about it being possible to change preload with the struts still on the vehicle but you needed 2 of their tools or an Allen wrench or something. I gave him my scale weight total and front and rear loads and hub to fender measurements, so theoretically the preload should be already set accurately. He also said that the suspension will need to settle out and will need about 500 miles for that. Makes me think I will be higher in front for a bit.

 

[UPR LC]

Ben at Filthy did mention something about it being possible to change preload with the struts still on the vehicle but you needed 2 of their tools or an Allen wrench or something. I gave him my scale weight total and front and rear loads and hub to fender measurements, so theoretically the preload should be already set accurately. He also said that the suspension will need to settle out and will need about 500 miles for that. Makes me think I will be higher in front for a bit.

A steel punch from harbor freight works great to fit in the holes in the adjustment collar. You can turn the collar by hand using the punch as a handle. At least this is how I adjusted my FOX coilovers on my Tacoma years ago.

A word of warning, do not over loosen the pinch bolts on the collars, while spinning the collar you can skip a thread on the shock body and it makes it feel like its cross threaded.

 

[bloc]

Ben at Filthy did mention something about it being possible to change preload with the struts still on the vehicle but you needed 2 of their tools or an Allen wrench or something. I gave him my scale weight total and front and rear loads and hub to fender measurements, so theoretically the preload should be already set accurately. He also said that the suspension will need to settle out and will need about 500 miles for that. Makes me think I will be higher in front for a bit.

Ben set mine up too, but I still had to do some dialing in on one side to address lean.

Pictures below of how I dealt with it

Thread 'King 2.5 front coil adjustments'

Dec 2, 2020

Hello all,

with a few thousand miles on my king 2.5 setup as they settled in I needed to adjust for an inch of uneven sag in the front. Ben at filthy told me king recommends removing the coil over for adjustments but it wasn’t absolutely necessary, but didn’t provide details at the time. They do come with a tool for rotating the collars, but with the reservoir hose in the way it is almost useless. I had to come up with a method to adjust things in situ, as there is no way I’m going through the extra work of removing the whole thing.

Here’s the shock as it sits.

The hole...

• bloc
• Replies: 41
• Forum: 200-Series Cruisers

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