Builds Putting the rust demon at bay (7 Viewers)

[archie73]

Took the family to Ennis, Mt to join the local club for a run up to Twin Lakes. It was 3-4 miles of dirt road and 3-4 miles of rough road. Then we got to the trail- This will be important later. It was a fun trail that lived up to the rocky description.
My 7 year old isn’t convinced trail riding is for him, so this was a make or break trail. He got out and walked the sections that he didn’t like with his mom. He ended up riding about half, but said he’d be up for another trip, just not too soon.

After hanging out at the lake for half hour, we broke into fishermen and not fishermen. The non fishermen headed out back down the trail. We made good time with the smaller group. I was having trouble getting back into 4lo, so the low 1st in the sm465 was getting a work out. At the trailhead, we split from the other two vehicles, so they could make it to town for the evening meal fixings. Ten minutes later the transfer started making a bad whine.

I pulled over to check underneath, with a knot in my stomach:

90wt streamed on the ground. We were a ways from the highway and no idea how long before the rest of group came by. So we sat and hung out waiting for someone to come by. After an hour, a 80’s pickup stopped and gave us a ride to camp.
So taking an empty trailer back down that rough was slow. So slow that a little after I got the truck on the trailer, a couple guys showed up to check on us. We made it back camp before midnight, but not by much.

 

[hooter]

^^^bummer^^^

 

[archie73]

So this brings us to the question of the day: Orion? Splitcase? Stock?

• Stock is easiest(if I can find one). Weakest choice
• Orion is strongest choice. Possibly the most expensive. Once I lump the price, it’s pretty straightforward.
• Splitcase is on the table, but is most unlikely. Apparently, my 4wd SM465 is a no go, so I’d need a new transmission.

I don’t know where I’m going on this one. I think I’d like the Orion, but it’ll kill the 5.3 budget I had set aside. Maybe I can figure out the splitcase dilemma....

 

[archie73]

^^^bummer^^^

Yeah, not the end of day I hoped for, but on the bright side I had a great day.

 

[archie73]

Alright, I pulled the trigger- 4:1 Orion is supposed to ship on Monday. I bought a new main shaft, even if mine is good I wanted a fresh build. New slider for the shifter as well, I read to many threads about popping into neutral.
So the tear down begins. Pulled off the pto cover to this:

Now I know what broke the case. Looks like a mounting bolt backed out. It dropped down to the low range gear and got pressed into the case. It’s nieghbor was on the way out as well. I’m gonna have to do better with the Loctite.
The harvesting of parts for the Orion.

Inventory of the gears. Everything looked good. The offending bolt took the brunt of the internal damage.

Still need to clean up the cover plates and the nose cone. Hopefully the case comes in before next weekend. I couldn’t afford the express shipping, it was going to blow my budget. Wish me luck.

 

[White Stripe]

Sorry for your troubles. Orion will be awesome.

 

[archie73]

Sorry for your troubles. Orion will be awesome.

It’s all in the name of fun. I’d love to blame the PO, but I’m afraid it’s got my finger prints all over it. Live and learn.

 

[archie73]

So the Orion comes in Wednesday and I have the weekend to build it. I’ve come up with a new question: no one likes the AA propeller crossmemmber, because the stock case is made of brittle aluminum. Is it ok behind the iron Orion? I have a concept of one that would support the SM465, but I’m not ready for that project yet.

 

[White Stripe]

So the Orion comes in Wednesday and I have the weekend to build it. I’ve come up with a new question: no one likes the AA propeller crossmemmber, because the stock case is made of brittle aluminum. Is it ok behind the iron Orion? I have a concept of one that would support the SM465, but I’m not ready for that project yet.

I see no problem

 

[SSTigerMerc]

The Orion is very worth it. My brother and I built a propeller shaft a long time ago and it works for both the Orion and the aluminum just fine. You can see it in the 3rd picture. I works fantastic and we simply used the old bell housing ears rubber cushions and them welded the mount the the frame. Up Moab twice and South Dakota once and all over in between and it has never let me down. I actually have to pull it out soon and do an SM420 rebuild so if you want more in depth photos let me know. Last thing I would do is call Georg at valley hybrids , someone who is more tech savvy than I can probably tag him, and ask for the nose cone saver and the stud kit for the manual shift attachment, trust me it pays off and is less than 100 and will save you tons if you come down on a rock and snap the front output off.

 

[archie73]

Last thing I would do is call George at valley hybrids , someone who is more tech savvy than I can probably tag him, and ask for the nose cone saver and the stud kit for the manual shift attachment, trust me it pays off and is less than 100 and will save you tons if you come down on a rock and snap the front output off.

That nose cone saver is on the way. I was hoping to have George build it for me, but budget was to tight. I've got an FSM, so I'll muddle through. FedEx is dropping the Case Kit off today. I've read all the threads on building the Orion I can find, I think I'm ready. @Poser said AA has upgraded the short comings in the original kits. Is there any advice on building one of these current kits? Here I go!!

 

[White Stripe]

I have a sm465 too. I've always had trouble with my input gear bolt coming loose and falling into the tcase. So I installed a really long bolt with beefy washers and lock washer and loctite. Also, make sure once you have the case assembled that you can shift it into 4hi and 4lo. I had some trouble with the shifting after the case got some miles on it. Fortunately with my body lift I could pull the top cover and adjust the shift fork easily without pulling the whole case. Also, one bolt you are supposed to machine so it's thinner, I just took it to the bench grinder. It's pretty simple to assemble though for the most part.

 

[SSTigerMerc]

That nose cone saver is on the way. I was hoping to have Georg build it for me, but budget was to tight. I've got an FSM, so I'll muddle through. FedEx is dropping the Case Kit off today. I've read all the threads on building the Orion I can find, I think I'm ready. @Poser said AA has upgraded the short comings in the original kits. Is there any advice on building one of these current kits? Here I go!!

Just sit down and take your time. Invest in a long set of feeler gauges as it will be easier to do gear spacing with them. The main thing is work one section at a time and follow the instructions. It really isnt that hard and dont try to bite of more then you can chew in a sitting. I think mine took me a little over a week just tinkering with it and setting goals. One day strip, one day paint, one day the main shaft, one day bearings, so on and so forth. If you need any help Georg is great. There is a guy at AA that has built a lot of them and is more than happy to help. I am on here every once and awhile and will watch the thread so if you need anything just ask. If any of your parts are worn out as well I probably have one laying around and if I dont Georg probably does.

 

[Casey E]

Even if Georg isn’t building it. knowing him he will help you with any questions, That’s just the kind of guy Georg is.

 

[archie73]

The Orion saga is hopefully wrapped up. Life kept getting in the way. I can’t complain though, it’s been a good month. Assembly seemed to be the easy part in hindsight. I took my time and put it together when I had an hour or more to spare. AA’s instructions were well laid out and easy enough to follow. I had an FSM on hand, but really just used it to double check the AA instructions.
Installing the beast, on the other hand, was tougher than I expected. Mostly my own incompetence, but time consuming. I was putting this behind an SM465 with a Promac plate adapter and I assumed it used metric threads like oem 3 speed. Nope I should checked before ordering, it takes 7/16 14 hardware. Two hardware stores later, i

The machines bolt on the bottom is clearanced for the big idler gear. Like @White Stripe said nothing a couple spinny tools can’t fix. Mines not as pretty as theirs but it’s hard to see in the case

It was time to put this thing in!!! With help of a friend we heaved this beast in- definitely a two person job. I then realized why they included on an Allen head bolt for the inner bolt. You can get a regular bolt in, but I couldn’t get a socket on to torque it to spec. I had to spend an hour to get one bolt in town. I bought two just in case...

This is where I wasted more time- getting the propeller crossmember back on. I’ll take better before pictures next time. That’s all I want to say about that.

The twelve o‘clock stud for the crossmember was stubborn as well, you know the hardest one to get a wrench on. Next time put the studs In the housing before installation.
Almost forgot the cotter pins on the output flanges. BOTH OF THEM- I’m loosing my mind.
The best part though, I drove it!!! As soon as the snow melts off the pass I’ll drive it home. Having the lift to use at work made this a lot easier than trying to do it in my garage.

 

[archie73]

I’ve got question for those that have done SM465 to Orion install. The AA mentioned a spacer input gear for the 4 speed transmission(Toyota). I don’t ever remember having one for my oem case, nor is there any sign of on in the box of parts from pulling it. I did notice the gear could be pushed to far onto the SM465’s output shaft though during installion though. It seems the natural path of the gear pattern will push the against the retaining bolt/washer. @orangefj45 or @White Stripe any thoughts?
I could make it out of pipe, i think, but then it be riding against the output bearing on the transmission. I’ve never seen the oem spacer. I have 10-15k miles on the transmission with 3 speed case without the spacer- did I get lucky on not having it?

 

[White Stripe]

I would install a spacer. I dont remember what I did on mine though.

 

[archie73]

I would install a spacer. I dont remember what I did on mine though.

Do you have a plate adapter or the AA style? My only concern is the spacer riding on the bearing, it exposed on the plate style adapter.

 

[White Stripe]

Do you have a plate adapter or the AA style? My only concern is the spacer riding on the bearing, it exposed on the plate style adapter.

I have a plate adapter. Without seeing it Im not sure what you should do then.

 

[archie73]

Just out of curiosity what plate do you have? I not positive what I have since I put it in 20 years ago.
I really don’t remember there being a spacer on the old setup. In fact it would have been still on there, I’d imagine, as I left the tranny in place for this mod.
@orangefj45 any thoughts? Should I make a spacer or let it ride? Btw, thanks for the replacement nose cone saver. Came in the mail today, hopefully it goes on later this week.