OME BP51 gimmicky? (1 Viewer)

[Reckless]

I've been anxiously waiting for my Icons adjustable coil overs to come in, they have been on back order for over a month now. I started having doubts if Icons are truly the best suspension for me and started googling Kings (esp the 3.0). I came across a very interesting video online:

At 12:30, he mentions how he feels OME BP51's are gimmicky from HIS perspective. He says that it doesn't have a 2.5" piston. Wouldn't that be a big deal? I've been trying to figure out how much difference a 3" piston is going to make.

Anyone who has any information between Icons vs Kings I would appreciate more feedback. My impression of the Kings is that they are like riding a cadillac and last a very long time due to high build quality. My impression of Icons is that they are sportier due to digressive valving and generally last ~50k miles on the street. This is all based on subjective data on other toyota forums for related vehicles. I know many people say that all the racing coilovers are all the same but I am having a hard time buying into that argument. Also, I know people say its like splitting hairs but I'm spending ~$4k on a racing suspension and don't want second best or the feeling I should have bought something else. I want my Cruiser to feel like a real Bruiser that can go anywhere at any time and preferably at speed. My stock suspension is not cutting it.

At first I was thinking I wanted a sportier style suspension but now want something that rides over everything like a cadillac. It's good that I am getting adjusters so I can go abck and forth between settings in order to achieve the quality ride I am looking for. I have never been in a vehicle with racing coilovers so I am at a great disadvantage.

 

[TonyP]

Company that only sells Kings, claims that Kings are the best thing ever?
Who'd of thunk?

 

[mcgaskins]

What Tony said. I don’t have to watch the video to see that a dude standing in front of a massive King display is going to be a little biased. I haven’t run BP51s but I have Icons on my Tacoma, and they’re the best I’ve used on an off road truck.

 

[Yeti White]

This guy has a bias for sure but does bring up some good points. I shopped around for some time on shocks and at the end it was between kings and BP51's. I ended up with the kings and am very happy with them. I am 100% positive that I would be just as happy with the BP51's. They are both high end shocks that improve the ride quality on and off road. That being said the icons are great to. Basically- Pick a color! Or go to the 3.0 kings and post some pics

 

[Island1064]

Had the BP51's switched to Icons. Icons are more than a notch above in control of the truck, they are better on high speed corrugated trails.
Bp's are good, Icons are that much better, feels like the truck can tackle any terrain at any speed with composure, control, and overall shock absorbing capacities, specially on things like a big bump, jumps, etc...
They are also easier to set as the compression setting is done on the reservoir.
But they feel more like a German car suspension than a floaty cadillac.

 

[Markuson]

I'm no suspension expert, but a properly adjusted lower-end setup could make a poorly-adjusted high-end set feel pretty bad...until adjusted. My BP setup felt like crap at first, but only because settings were way off.

It's amazing how much things can improve with tweaking. If I recall correctly, @Willy beamin wrote about what an amazing difference he experienced when he had his existing Icons adjusted by the company itself...specifically for his truck's weight, etc. He saw a huge improvement. I don't think he had complaints before, but the improvement was awesome by his account.

I have a feeling many shocks never really live up to their potential because settings and other combinations of springs, preload, etc. end up stifling ultimate performance.

When my BP's first went on, the shop made a bunch of mistakes and they rode like a WWII TANK (bad). But it wasn't the BP design. They just screwed up. Not only did they leave the coilovers at the factory settings (which is pre-set under the assumption you are running heavy bumper, winch & more--and I was mostly stock at the time), but they had my tires aired up to 56PSI for some reason. The first thought was...this suspension is HARSH. But that wasn't it at all. It was just poorly adjusted.

Anyway, just suggestion to be careful you are really comparing properly adjusted apples to apples when it comes the the entire setup. Otherwise you could come away with an erroneous impression of a particular brand or design...when it might really just need proper adjustment.

 

[Swampmonger]

 

[RyanR]

From my experience I doubt you'd be disap

I'm no suspension expert, but a properly adjusted lower-end setup could make a badly-adjusted high-end set feel pretty poor. My setup felt like crap at first, and others have seen major improvements.

It's amazing how much things can improve with tweaking. If I recall correctly, @WillyBeamin wrote about what an amazing difference he experienced when he had his existing Icons adjusted by the company itself. He saw a huge improvement. I don't think he had complaints before, but the improvement was awesome.

Before comparing rides of each brand-- Do you have the proper preload on coilovers? Are your rear springs too stout or too soft? Are the rebound and compression settings on each properly tuned for your preferences? Any of those factors being off could make a great system feel like crap.

I have a feeling many shocks never really live up to their potential because settings and other combinations of springs, preload, etc. end up stifling ultimate performance.

Even things like too much air pressure in your tires could make one system feel super harsh. That happened on mine when I first did my lift. The shop had blown the tires to almost 56PSI and it was like driving on stone wheels. The first thought is...this suspension is HARSH. But that wasn't it at all. It was just wrong. That, and they cranked my preload way to heavy for my mostly-stock truck at the time.

Just be careful you are really comparing apples to apples when it comes the the entire setup. Not just which brand coil-over.

Excellent point on a properly adjusted setup. When I get a new mountain bike it takes me a couple weeks of daily rides and constant fiddling with the suspension to get it dialed in just so. Expecting to bolt on new coilovers and get optimal performance out of the box isn't likely but most people set them and forget them and never realize the full potential of their investment.

 

[Reckless]

This guy has a bias for sure but does bring up some good points. I shopped around for some time on shocks and at the end it was between kings and BP51's. I ended up with the kings and am very happy with them. I am 100% positive that I would be just as happy with the BP51's. They are both high end shocks that improve the ride quality on and off road. That being said the icons are great to. Basically- Pick a color! Or go to the 3.0 kings and post some pics

I would consider the 3.0s if it would make any difference on the street. Since I live in Chicago and we don't have desert racing nearby I don't think its of use to me. I generally don't like buying second best esp for my LC but it wouldn't serve my purpose.

Mark is definitely right that dialing in the suspension is key to reaping the benefits.

 

[Markuson]

From my experience I doubt you'd be disap


Excellent point on a properly adjusted setup. When I get a new mountain bike it takes me a couple weeks of daily rides and constant fiddling with the suspension to get it dialed in just so. Expecting to bolt on new coilovers and get optimal performance out of the box isn't likely but most people set them and forget them and never realize the full potential of their investment.

Man that is so true on full suspension bikes. When I got back on my mountain bike for the first time after my accident...I was rusty, and the ride was horrible. Then my brain finally kicked in again, and I realized my front shocks were nearly locked, & that's the only reason my arms were getting beat to death. Silly mistake, but it happens.

 

[arich]

I’ve had the BP51s for 2 years now and I’m still tweaking them. I adjusted the front rebound just a 1/2 notch today before taking a long trip cand it made a huge difference. You have to be slow, meticulous and keep notes.
I’m happy with the BP51s.
Would I like the Icons or Kings. I don’t know, send me some I’ll test them.

 

[Reckless]

I do think the OME unit is good but requires ALOT of tweaking and knowledge. I was recommended the ICONs because of how easy it is to adjust but was told the OME was way more customizable.

I guess I didn't realize 51mm meant 2.0 inches which makes it ALOT more expensive then comparable 2.0 coilovers.

 

[Reckless]

So ICON came out with 3.0 reservoir shocks with CDCV for land cruiser FRONT ONLY (NO REARS):
2008-UP Toyota Land Cruiser (200 Series) 3.0 Series Remote Reservoir CDCV Coilover Kit

They mention it will fit:
Aftermarket Wheels: 8-8.5" Wide, 5.75" Backspace
Aftermarket Tires: 34 x 10.50

Compared to the 2.5” diameter coilovers the 3.0 Series shocks see a piston surface area increase of 50% in the ride zone, and 100% in the “Bump Zone”. This translates into increased stability and vehicle control at the extremes of off-road use, with benefits also making themselves apparent in on-road driving conditions. The multi-stage hydraulic Bump Zone featured in these 3.0 Series shocks exponentially increases bottom-out resistance as the shock travels through the last 40% of travel, keeping vehicle dynamics in check during those hard hits or unexpected obstacles.

 

[Dan Higgins]

So I'm not at all interested in these advanced shocks - at least not at this point. (Anything more I do with the suspension will be focused on ever-better towing behavior.) That said, I am curious what is meant by "hard off road use, big hits, high shaft speeds" or even "extreme bottom-out conditions". Is this Baha racing type off roading? Do you all really do that in your LCs? I had a colleague who was a member of a support crew for a Baha 500 competitor for a number of years. That was some crazy "off roading"!

 

[Markuson]

So I'm not at all interested in these advanced shocks - at least not at this point. (Anything more I do with the suspension will be focused on ever-better towing behavior.) That said, I am curious what is meant by "hard off road use, big hits, high shaft speeds" or even "extreme bottom-out conditions". Is this Baha racing type off roading? Do you all really do that in your LCs? I had a colleague who was a member of a support crew for a Baha 500 competitor for a number of years. That was some crazy "off roading"!

It really doesn’t take anything all that extreme to appreciate the suspension’s ability to take those kind of hard “hits” without bottoming out.

Just yesterday in the desert, both @Mogwai and I had gear in the back of our rigs launching toward the ceiling while traveling at moderate speeds in sand & dirt. In the desert at speed, bumps and dips come at you quickly and unless you are content to plod along slowly, you are bound to take some heavy hits. I had some hits in series, over bumps sort of like snow ski moguls...but none were a problem beyond the fact that my gear was not adequately secured. My BPs took them as well as could be hoped. But anyway, -no Baja 1000. Just moderately faster speeds in desert terrain that would have had me nosing right into the ground on stock suspension.

 

[OregonLC]

So I'm not at all interested in these advanced shocks - at least not at this point. (Anything more I do with the suspension will be focused on ever-better towing behavior.) That said, I am curious what is meant by "hard off road use, big hits, high shaft speeds" or even "extreme bottom-out conditions". Is this Baha racing type off roading? Do you all really do that in your LCs? I had a colleague who was a member of a support crew for a Baha 500 competitor for a number of years. That was some crazy "off roading"!

When you have high-mile days on remote tracks your speed tends to pick up. The more ground you can cover, the closer that beer gets to your hand. Shock fade is a real thing, even at 40 mph on an average trail. Then you come across that sleeper dip you didn't see or that rock that was in the shaddow and all the sudden you need max performance out of your suspension. Do you 'need' a 3.0 King for overlanding? Probably not. But the better your components, the more confident you will be in your ability to lay down the miles. The larger the shock, the more heat it can disapate and the longer it will perform before it stops doing it's job and those hits start being transmitted directly to the mounts.

 

[Forrest Murphy]

I bought my Kings to replace the third set of BP-51s from Ben at Filthy motorsports. He is the real deal. His primary focus is much more complex setups than what we see on the Landcruiser. The purchase was not a transaction but a process to understand my needs, my rig, and how I use it.

I had the opportunity to speak with Mike King during the process he verified Ben's recommended suspension design. I have the Kings 2.5 OEM with 700 spring rate springs in the front, a slight change in the valuing, with compression adjustors and internal bypass which effectively acts as a hydraulic bump stop front and rear. When changing this around I changed the rear to Kings springs (KTRR-131HD) from Australia which has a progressive spring rate vs OME's linear- Mike King, no relations to King springs, put me in contact with his AUS team to help with the procurement of the Kings Springs.

I have put about 10K miles on the kings which about 2.5K have has been trail or forest roads by completing the Trans America Trail from NC to the middle of CO. (After this adventure is when I decided to put the AUX fuel tank in as carrying 20 gallons on fuel in rotpax was not fun).

The kings performed incredibly well- fully laden my rigs runs about 8200lbs (unladen 7300lbs) so it is an armored, triple battery, pig. The Kings, and Kings springs soaked up 100's of miles washboard roads, driving a little faster than suggested, and when the surprise pothole in the dirt track pop up- nothing just soaked it up and we kept going cruising down the track. The remote reservoirs did their jobs maintaining the shock oils temperature- the shocks were warm but in no way hot.

On road the system is like driving a performance luxury sedan, a couple clicks on the compression adjusters, one can achieve a very comfortable controlled ride when you come to a trail or require a little stiffer ride a couple click the other way.

Ben followed personally 6 months later to make sure of my satisfaction. 100% satisfied-

Frankly, it is one the best investments- I switched the AEV Bilstein's on our JK350 to kings as well very happy.

 

[Mogwai]

I actually enjoyed most of that King promo video - Ben certainly seems to know his s***. One of the points I liked the most was the use of active bump stops, vs internal bypass. His take was that by assuming the use of an active bump to take on the hard hits you can calibrate the shock differently, to use more of the shock in the ride zone vs reserving parts of the shock travel for "bump zone". Just makes too much sense... if I ever hit the lotto I'll probably go all out w/ some Kings and other goodies.

 

[Reckless]

So I was on the phone this morning with Andrew at Icon and they say 34s will fit and 35s should fit without relocating KDSS. I am getting half tempted to get the ICON 3.0 coilovers so I can fit 35s. They recommend 2.5s for rear with a rear 1.75" spring they offer. They did say the ride will be more plush on the street with the 3.0s as compared to 2.5s.

 

[TonyP]

I don't know why Icon 3.0s would make the difference of fitting 35s. That being said, I do not recommend 35s.