New LC Differentials (4 Viewers)

[APIOQM]

The whole differential thing is overblown in my opinion. The light duty cruiser has always had a smaller differential and nobody has complained. Yes you can get a 9.5 in the TRD Pro, but you’re paying for it. As hinted at, the 250 may get future trims with the 9.5, which you’ll also pay for. For anyone who would have been happy to own a 150 if they were sold here, this shouldn’t matter.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Meanwhile, "First Edition" LC gets mud guards, sliders, a labeled skid plate (?), and larger tires, lol. NOTE: the absence of any LC "TRD" trims, which, also, were never offered on a 100, or a 200 (even though "TRD off road" has been around since the 1st gen tacoma). Maybe the broverlander LC trims are coming in future years? Or... maybe their absence is an intentional decision?...

The US has never seen much in the way of TRD on the Land Cruiser, the 2020/2021 Heritage Edition 200 wheels were branded TRD. Outside the US packages were sold under the TRD nameplate to include wheels, fenders, skids, bumper garnish, exhaust & suspension among interior mods.

LC200 | TRD

TRD

www.trdparts.jp

I suspect we'll see future LC trims. Rear axle (8.2" vs 9.5") on production level of those vehicle trims if/when they happen, is yet to be confirmed.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Such a brouhaha of outrage has been made about the smaller rear differential — yet nobody has even driven a vehicle that uses it.
For all we know they’ll never break. I think judgement needs to be reserved until we get lots of reports of broken diffs.

I have, many of them in fact I can assure you the last thing on my mind was breaking a rear diff or axle given the admittedly lighter off-roading we were doing on each occassion. However... the LC in the US has always been overbuilt for true new vehicle market, and that is why so many of us loved buying one 2nd or 5th hand.

But I do agree, it's a hyped outrage here on Mud more than anywhere else in the LC community at current. For the few that would likely encounter a rear axle failure with the 8.2", a 9.5" swap will be easier than ever before so there is that. As I've said a handful of time and I apologize for sounding like a broken record, I absolutely appreciate the LC250 for what it is, not for the LC300 it is not and was never intended to be.

 

[TheLCProject]

I have, many of them in fact I can assure you the last thing on my mind was breaking a rear axle give the admittedly lighter off-roading we were doing. However... the LC in the US has always been overbuilt for true new vehicle market, and that is why so many of us loved buying one 2nd or 5th hand.

But I do agree, it's a hyped outrage here on Mud more than anywhere else in the LC community at current. For the few that would likely encounter a rear axle failure with the 8.2", a 9.5" swap will be easier than ever before so there is that. As I've said a handful of time and I apologize for sounding like a broken record, I absolutely appreciate the LC250 for what it is, not for the LC300 it is not and was never intended to be.

Not that anyone cares..but I agree, Kurt. Especially the parts in bold.

I don't know if there's been a shift in yours or other's opinions as information has trickled out since last August, but I appreciate hearing these thoughts that appear to be to be less hype- or excitement-driven but rather more realistic.

 

[rexington14]

You clearly do not know the history of the Land Cruiser being the king of overlanding, but I digress.

I’m well aware of the history of the Land Cruiser being the king of overlanding…

… which, here in the USA, was typically not done until the vehicle’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th owner - who purchased at a fraction of MSRP.

Meanwhile, the original buyer has long ago traded it in on a new one or switched to a real luxury brand.

But, if I’m wrong on that, and you bought a brand new 100 or 200 series at ~ $90k, and you’ve been “sending it” off road before your permanent plates were were even delivered in the mail, let me know.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Not that anyone cares..but I agree, Kurt. Especially the parts in bold.

I don't know if there's been a shift in yours or other's opinions as information has trickled out since last August, but I appreciate hearing these thoughts that appear to be to be less hype- or excitement-driven but rather more realistic.

Full disclosure, I'm still very excited about the LC250, GX550 and 4Runner too. The LC250 alone has done faaaaaaaaaaar more to raise excitement and discussion amongst the automotive world relevant to LC's and more so Land Cruiser community than anything we've seen in decades, exponentially more than the UZJ100 in 1997 and LC200 in 2007 when both debuted to super lackluster fanfare amongst the Cruiser community (note the 7x also had documented lackluster fanfare amongst enthuiasts in 1985 ). Land Cruiser shops will have a shelf life with and estimated 10x more of these sold per year than the outgoing LC200. Cruiser events will have a shot in the arm of new blood driving new Cruisers and old blood driving them too. I know many long-time Cruiserheads ready to yardsale their older 'needs constant attention' 6x's and 80's for a brand new LC250 that they'll drop off at the dealer for service. The 100/200 didn't cut it for many old school Cruiserheads, they opted for Wrangler's & Bronco's outside the Toyota ecosystem or often into 4Runners within, I can count dozens in this realm. I think we'll see a bit of an 'FJ Cruiser' scenario in which new enthusiasts come to the Toyota family and stay, selling their LC250 and buying something bigger as their family/needs grow OR buying a few old Land Cruisers. It's net positive from my perspective.

 

[Zill]

I’m well aware of the history of the Land Cruiser being the king of overlanding…

… which, here in the USA, was typically not done until the vehicle’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th owner - who purchased at a fraction of MSRP.

Meanwhile, the original buyer has long ago traded it in on a new one or switched to a real luxury brand.

But, if I’m wrong on that, and you bought a brand new 100 or 200 series at ~ $90k, and you’ve been “sending it” off road before your permanent plates were were even delivered in the mail, let me know.

The difference being, from the factory, it was designed to be able to handle the task. The jury is out on this light duty gear which is questionable at best. The 2rd or 3rd owners may not even be able to take this LC Lite overlanding because of the questionable cost cutting measures done to the drive train components.

Remember, you get what you pay for. I’m fine with them stripping down the interior bits for cost cutting measures, but don’t cut the actual important drive train components and call it, the return of the “legend”.

 

[TheLCProject]

Full disclosure, I'm still very excited about the LC250, GX550 and 4Runner too. The LC250 alone has done faaaaaaaaaaar more to raise excitement and discussion amongst the automotive world relevant to LC's and more so Land Cruiser community than anything we've seen in decades, exponentially more than the UZJ100 in 1997 and LC200 in 2007 when both debuted to super lackluster fanfare amongst the Cruiser community (note the 7x also had documented lackluster fanfare amongst enthuiasts in 1985 ). Land Cruiser shops will have a shelf life with and estimated 10x more of these sold per year than the outgoing LC200. Cruiser events will have a shot in the arm of new blood driving new Cruisers and old blood driving them too. I know many long-time Cruiserheads ready to yardsale their older 'needs constant attention' 6x's and 80's for a brand new LC250 that they'll drop off at the dealer for service. The 100/200 didn't cut it for many old school Cruiserheads, they opted for Wrangler's & Bronco's outside the Toyota ecosystem or often into 4Runners within, I can count dozens in this realm. I think we'll see a bit of an 'FJ Cruiser' scenario in which new enthusiasts come to the Toyota family and stay, selling their LC250 and buying something bigger as their family/needs grow OR buying a few old Land Cruisers. It's net positive from my perspective.

Still in agreement.

Sounds like business should be good for quite a while Especially with OME shocks and ARB bumpers going out on production vehicles.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...But, if I’m wrong on that, and you bought a brand new 100 or 200 series at ~ $90k, and you’ve been “sending it” off road before your permanent plates were were even delivered in the mail, let me know.

It's certainly a smaller number but there are many that do just as you describe. That number/ratio will absolute grow with the LC250. I/we have had more inquiries about 'build options' for the LC250 than we had for the 200 until it was a decade old

It's not just the introduction as a much lower cost, but rather it's really appealing to in many cases a much larger audience with some overlap to the last. Those traditional new-Land Cruiser buyers that don't like the LC250, are finding LX600's or moving to a new brand.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Still in agreement.

Sounds like business should be good for quite a while Especially with OME shocks and ARB bumpers going out on production vehicles.

Many shops are worried/upset about the offerings on the Trailhunter/TRD Pro Tacoma/4Runner model and/or the AAP parts available from Toyota and Lexus right at the dealer from brands like ARB, Dometic, CBI, and many more to come. And while it may impact some buyers, there will also by 10x more Land Cruisers entering the US market each year which means a massively larger 2nd and 3rd... buyer group as they get a couple years old.

I look forward to bunch showing up to Wasatch Cruisers events, Cruise Moab, CruiserFest, joining Mud, etc. There are only so many old Cruisers left for people to buy, use and restore. As of 2022 we were a dying breed in the US, now there will be new life that will reinvigorate many old.

 

[TheLCProject]

Many shops are worried/upset about the offerings on the Trailhunter/TRD Pro Tacoma/4Runner model and/or the AAP parts available from Toyota and Lexus right at the dealer from brands like ARB, Dometic, CBI, and many more to come

Is the concern out of having to compete with a dealer on volume pricing? I'd assume, even if you got just 10% of the replacements on 10X more vehicles out there, you'd do all right? And you'd probably get more, especially as the vehicles get beyond first owners and warranty periods.

Toyota has been selling lifts and other TRD parts for years and that's likely not really impacted your sales/business much.

Sorry - that's a bit of a digression from the topic. To get us back, maybe you'll start carrying rear 9.5 diffs with full axle assemblies?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Is the concern out of having to compete with a dealer on volume pricing? I'd assume, even if you got just 10% of the replacements on 10X more vehicles out there, you'd do all right? And you'd probably get more, especially as the vehicles get beyond first owners and warranty periods.

Toyota has been selling lifts and other TRD parts for years and that's likely not really impacted your sales/business much.

Sorry - that's a bit of a digression from the topic. To get us back, maybe you'll start carrying rear 9.5 diffs with full axle assemblies?

I think they are just worried that a customer will bundle recovery gear, a fridge, etc into their new car purchase and skip many purchases at their local 4x4 shop. I saw the writing on the wall for many of this genre of accessories as the market got flooded pre-covid and then drowned during covid and thus we don't stock much of that stuff anyway, we focus on boring things like bearings, seals and gaskets. As of today, you can buy a new LX600 and add a Dometic Fridge and ARB awning right at the dealer, a great option for many buyers and that worries some aftermarket retailers.

 

[TheLCProject]

I think they are just worried that a customer will bundle recovery gear, a fridge, etc into their new car purchase and skip many purchases at their local 4x4 shop. I saw the writing on the wall for many of this genre of accessories as the market got flooded pre-covid and then drowned during covid and thus we don't stock much of that stuff anyway, we focus on boring things like bearings, seals and gaskets. As of today, you can buy a new LX600 and add a Dometic Fridge and ARB awning right at the dealer, a great option for many buyers and that worries some aftermarket retailers.

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Good point. I appreciate that insight. Probably a better rate on the auto loan than the credit card for most people.

If you're paying cash it wouldn't matter.


I'd be terrified to have dealer staff install anything on my vehicle though...they are the last folks I want touching my new car. Pull of the plastic on the seats and then leave it the eff alone. But I get it for those rich my-time-is-worth-more buyers.

 

[rexington14]

It's certainly a smaller number but there are many that do just as you describe. That number/ratio will absolute grow with the LC250. I/we have had more inquiries about 'build options' for the LC250 than we had for the 200 until it was a decade old

It's not just the introduction as a much lower cost, but rather it's really appealing to in many cases a much larger audience with some overlap to the last. Those traditional new-Land Cruiser buyers that don't like the LC250, are finding LX600's or moving to a new brand.

Put a different way, I'd assume that, proportionally, the new buyer of a 5th gen 4Runner in TRD Off Road or TRD Pro trim, had a much higher likelihood of actually using his truck "harder", than the new buyer of a Land Cruiser ever did.

Which is interesting because that assumption is actually reflected now, with the way the models and trims currently sit, with the 4R's 3 Off road focused trims, and the LC250's comparable lack thereof. Coincidence, or, could it actually be intentional by Toyota - meaning no, you're not getting an LC250 trim with a snorkel, so buy the 4R (or GX overtrail)

 

[Jetboy]

A lot of aftermarket stuff is really high margin products that Toyota decided to go take back as the OEM. Similar to what Ford and Jeep have been doing. It's hard for the aftermarket to compete with the OEM on quality, fit, finish and on the ability to finance the parts with the vehicle. Plus the OEM can build stuff no one else can - like the TRD Pro suspension or the Raptor setup. To replicate the ride of a TRD Pro bypass shocks - it's expensive. Back to back I think the TRD Pro 4Runner setup is better than the Fox "Factory Series" 2.5s I had on mine. And the Tundra lift is super comprehensive with UCAs, proper extended axles, etc. For what Toyota is charging - it's a heck of a good value. Even the TRD OR now comes with much improved suspension over the last gen in the Taco/4R models. I can see a lot of people like me who were replacing the stock tokicos right away keeping the OEM suspension.

Would I buy an awning or cooler? No. Pretty easy to buy the same awning at Costco for half the price.

 

[OSS]

Yeah - if that big inverter on the LC250 taps off the hybrid traction battery, that’s a big power source for accessories.
Having Toyota offer an aftermarket fridge that can tap off the traction battery (via the inverter) will be a selling point for the vehicle for newbies just discovering “Overlanding” (which used to be called camping).

“Wow! Really? I can run a fridge inside the vehicle?”

 

[Jetboy]

Put a different way, I'd assume that, proportionally, the new buyer of a 5th gen 4Runner in TRD Off Road or TRD Pro trim, had a much higher likelihood of actually using his truck "harder", than the new buyer of a Land Cruiser ever did.

Which is interesting because that assumption is actually reflected now, with the way the models and trims currently sit, with the 4R's 3 Off road focused trims, and the LC250's comparable lack thereof. Coincidence, or, could it actually be intentional by Toyota - meaning no, you're not getting an LC250 trim with a snorkel, so buy the 4R (or GX overtrail)

I think this is correct and I imagine Toyota has a lot of insight into it. At least for the USA. The Tacoma and 4R are the ones people are going out and using at the higher intensity right away.

In the bush - I see a lot of old junk and new Tacoma, 4Runners, Wranglers and a few newer full size trucks - the most common late model full size is probably the Ram Power Wagons despite tons of Raptors and TRXs running around on the streets here. I don't think I've ever crossed paths with a TRX off pavement.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I'd be terrified to have dealer staff install anything on my vehicle though...they are the last folks I want touching my new car. Pull of the plastic on the seats and then leave it the eff alone. But I get it for those rich my-time-is-worth-more buyers.

There are some dealers doing pretty legit aftermarket parts business, Longo Toyota & Lexus for example has an entire division doing aftermarket. We have some techs at local Toyota and Lexus dealers that I would absolutely trust for complex installs or simple awning mounts to a roof rack

 

[lovetoski]

Yeah - if that big inverter on the LC250 taps off the hybrid traction battery, that’s a big power source for accessories.
Having Toyota offer an aftermarket fridge that can tap off the traction battery (via the inverter) will be a selling point for the vehicle for newbies just discovering “Overlanding” (which used to be called camping).

“Wow! Really? I can run a fridge inside the vehicle?”

The inverter does tap off of the traction battery. Only downside (which seems minor to me) is that the motor will auto start to recharge the traction battery. But if you look at the other side of that coin, no dual battery wiring and no solar panels. There was some discussion in another thread about the traction battery having very limited capacity, though I forget the details.

 

[GTV]

For the few that would likely encounter a rear axle failure with the 8.2", a 9.5" swap will be easier than ever before so there is that.

Is there a difference in gear ratio?