LJ78 2L-TE - blown? What to do... (2 Viewers)

[Jonesey]

1991 LJ78 2L-TE, Automatic Transmission
I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I unknowingly ran my engine low on oil - not sure how long. Could have been low for a couple weeks. I changed the oil about a month ago (filled to proper level at that time) and have done mostly city driving since then. I've been noticing some blue smoke but thought that turbo seals were perhaps going out. Should have checked oil sooner...can't believe I went a month without pulling dipstick. Today, driving about 60mph down freeway, about to exit ramp, heard loud knocking sound and immediately pulled over. Got to gas station about 1/4 mile later. Filled oil, it was about 4.5 to 5 quarts low...yikes! It has been burning much more than I realized. Months prior, I would not have lost this in a couple weeks' time. I recently ran PCV tube back into intake, previously was venting to atmosphere, so thought maybe I was doing better by retaining that oil in the engine. Was seeing good amount of oil blowby in PCV tube when vented to atmosphere, even with PCV hose having a loop in hose and going through catch can.

Long story short - after filling back up with oil, knocking sound is still there. Guessing engine is toast? I've done a number of mods - EGR delete, air-air intercooler, remove butterfly plates from throttle body.

Wondering if rebuilding this engine with a rebuild kit is worth it...or if I should look for a new 2L-TE. I'm having trouble locating a 1991 (Gen 1?) 2L-TE. I can only find the 2nd gen versions where air intake goes towards passenger (left-hand) side. My air intake is on right-hand (RHD - driver's) side.

Any thoughts/suggestions you might have, or leads on a '91 2L-TE w/ automatic transmission (located in USA), are appreciated.

Thanks,
Dylan

 

[Jonesey]

Anyone think this rhythmic knocking sound could be fuel related? Injectors? Ignition timing? Anyone else ever experience this issue with their 2L-TE? After all, it wasn't completely out of oil...

 

[AirheadNut]

Hard to say without a video to be able to hear the noise, but if your engine was that low on oil I would guess there is internal damage. The injection system doesn't depend on engine oil. I would recommend pulling your oil filter and cutting it open to see if there are little flecks of metal inside. Depending on the extent of damage it is definitely possible to rebuild a 2L-TE, @GreenPump recently did an excellent job on his 3L.

 

[Rigster]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Try not to beat yourself up over it.

That's a significant amount of oil consumption in only a months time. If there are no serious oil leaks, then I would say it was time to do some kind of overhaul anyways.

Otherwise, if you would prefer to troubleshoot, then you could send an oil sample to Blackstone, and you could also test compression on the cylinders just to see where things are at.

You could also check if you can get a 1KZ or a 1KD engine reasonably priced and upgrade if you are not wanting to rebuild your 2L-TE

Best of luck on this!

 

[AirheadNut]

Perhaps a different company in Canada, but I believe it is Blackstone that does oil analysis in the States. That is where I have sent my oil samples, anyway.

 

[GreenPump]

A rebuild is definitely worth it! I was in a similar situation in October. I looked at sourcing a newer used 5L, or another engine, it is not economical.

I pulled my 3L on October 20th and it was back in and running on December 2nd. Most of the time was waiting on the machine shop. I really only spent a few days of actual working time.

This is coming from someone who has never rebuilt an engine. You can definitely do it. The total cost in parts, replacing literally everything except pistons, was under $2,000. That's shipped, from Dubai, all toyota OEM stuff. Machine shop bill to grind my crank and hone the block, and assemble my head with brand new valves, seats, seals, springs, etc, was $700.

I rented an engine hoist from a local tool rental, borrowed an engine stand from a friend, did everything in my driveway and my tiny one car garage. I only had help for the pull and replacing the built engine back in.

After the rebuild my 3L is running exceptionally well, rings now appear to be seated, and I will be turboing soon.

Check out my thread, "3L Retrofit - Boring out 3.5mm". I didn't actually bore it. Haha.
Pictures of the whole process. For your 2L the steps are almost identical.

I would strongly consider rebuilding the 2L.

 

[Nzpighunter]

I'm running a 5le motor out of a 2002 Hilux, pretty straight forward everything bolts on from the 2lte and you can still run the electronic fuel pump. I think only mods I had to do from memory was move a couple exhaust studs on block, swap the oil cooler cover I think (can't remeber if I had to do this its been about 8 years) and fit a oil drain for the turbo in the sump. Goes a bit better standard just have to tweak the fuel screw on the pump. 3 litre motor that are alot more reliable then the 2l and I've seen some pushing 190hp in Hiluxs over here in nz

 

[Houser]

I think if I had to do another 2lte rebuild I would just buy a new Toyota 5le short block. All the the 2lte parts would bolt right on. Might have to drill the block for a turbo oil rtn buy thats it.
Instant 3liter upgrade.

 

[Felde]

Hi
sorry to hear this. Do not start the engine unless properly diagnosed. I suggest to do a thorough analysis first:
- Oil filter check as @AirheadNut suggested. Do you have magnets in the drain plug? If so: Pull and check. Drain the oil into a clean container and filter it to check for debris. Put a magnet in it to check for real small debris. You can safe the money for any lab test. On such a failure normal sensing with eyes, probably a magnet and rubbing between the fingers is sufficient.
- Compression loss test (preferably with external compressed air. Move engine as little as necessary. Do not crank it)
- Check Turbo inlet and outlet side for oil.
- Pull head cover and check rockers and valves. Look for debris.
- Pull oil pan and check for debris. Probably pull bearing caps and check piston bearings.
Get an engine expert involved for further checks, depending on what you find in the DIY analysis.
Good Luck Ralf

 

[Jonesey]

Thank you all for your insights so far. Truck is parked in garage, not starting it. It may be a bit before I get time to start digging into diagnosing this / the extent of damage.

I like the 5le short block idea, especially because I have quite a bit invested in mods to the current 2LTE, which I think I could keep if I'm understanding the swap correctly? Many of you on here inspired me to embrace the 2LTE and try to make the best of it. I'm just sad it didn't last me long. It has ~130k miles on it.

One key issue: not sure where I would get a 5le short block. Seems hard to find / able to get to USA. The 5le block would marry up with the 2LTE head, assuming it's good, and work with my automatic transmission?

If it is determined rebuild is not possible/advisable, is this an option - does anyone know if this is legitimate/could be safely shipped to USA?
Partial engine assembly for Toyota Land Cruiser Prado LJ78W - Genuine parts - Amayama - https://www.amayama.com/en/genuine-catalogs/epc/toyota-japan/land_cruiser_prado/lj78w/139171/engine/1101

I'll start with cutting into oil filter, sifting oil/magnet test, pulling head cover, and probably dropping sump as an initial first step to diving into this...perhaps leading to taking entire motor out and attempting what @GreenPump graciously documented and achieved.

Thanks,
Dylan

 

[Nzpighunter]

I think the 2lte head has something different to the 5le head to do with the injection, can't remeber what it is but something to do with making the 2lte idle quieter and smoother, the 1kz shares the same design I believe and makes the walls between the coolant chambers thinner making them more prone to blowing heads. Can't remember the actual details but I read that somewhere. Idk if you get hiace vans over there but they have the 5le to

 

[joekatana]

Swap a 1KZ-T in it and never look back

 

[Jonesey]

If I did swap something in, I'd have to keep my automatic transmission, family / wife request. If I had my druthers, I'd swap to manual. I think that's my biggest hurdle with a swap at the moment. Does anyone know how I might go about keeping auto trans with a:

1. 1kz-t? or 1kz-te?
2. 1uz-fe? Would entertain this if I could have confidence that I could pull it off with auto trans.

I'm struggling to find a good guide on the swaps, at least for those who have kept automatic transmission. Don't know how to go about a swap, with confidence, and keep auto trans (believe it's the a343)...with any engine other than what is in it and I can't find a 2l-te engine that I think would work. I've read some posts on here about failed swaps/incomplete projects. I can't go down that road.

Have to switch to manual injection pump on 1kz-te?
How is fuel delivery handled with 1uz-fe (gas) engine?

I have limited financial resources to throw at this, at least in next year. Can't afford to get knee deep in a project only to encounter too many issues/find I'm not going to be able to finish and have a non-functioning cruiser after investing thousands... I think this is why a rebuild is most attractive to me at the moment, provided engine is not too far gone (cracked head or block, or something that would just push it to the non-rebuild state). Even if head is cracked, couldn't I replace with a better designed head that would be a direct fit to 2l-te block? @GTSSportCoupe didn't you upgrade the head on your 2l-te? Which one did you get? I've already invested thousands on custom tig welded intercooler piping, intercooler, 2.5" exhaust from turbo-back, replacing timing belt, water pump, alternator, and more on the 2l-te).

Thanks all for input re: 2l-te swap with auto trans, if you have it/know of a good example build, and for info on upgrading my head during rebuild, if I go that route.

Thanks,
Dylan

 

[Jonesey]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Try not to beat yourself up over it.

That's a significant amount of oil consumption in only a months time. If there are no serious oil leaks, then I would say it was time to do some kind of overhaul anyways.

Otherwise, if you would prefer to troubleshoot, then you could send an oil sample to Blackstone, and you could also test compression on the cylinders just to see where things are at.

You could also check if you can get a 1KZ or a 1KD engine reasonably priced and upgrade if you are not wanting to rebuild your 2L-TE

Best of luck on this!

Thanks for the encouragement and wishing me well on this, I appreciate that!

 

[Jonesey]

Hard to say without a video to be able to hear the noise, but if your engine was that low on oil I would guess there is internal damage. The injection system doesn't depend on engine oil. I would recommend pulling your oil filter and cutting it open to see if there are little flecks of metal inside. Depending on the extent of damage it is definitely possible to rebuild a 2L-TE, @GreenPump recently did an excellent job on his 3L.

I think you are right - it sounded like rod knock to me. I'll find out soon...haven't had time to take anything apart yet. Fixing wife's daily driver...radiator and rear suspension.

 

[Nzpighunter]

Can't see why the 5le motor wouldn't work with the auto. Uses all the 2lte bits just different block and head and still has the crank sensor. I've seen some 1uz with autos here in nz but not sure if it is the stock trans or how much work goes into. Also seen 1kz with the auto I think not sure if that's the same model. Problem with the 2lte is you spend a heap of money rebuilding it and you still have a motor with a weak head. My truck had the topend rebuilt just before I brought it and it blew a year later after 20000ks.5le cost less then it would have to rebuild it over here. Not sure on the quality of the transmissions in them aswell, mine blew not long after I swapped the motor, was going to be costly to repair or replace but manual converted it for about a grand and never had any trouble but that could have been down to PO not looking after it. Diff oil came out like sludge aswell surprised that's still going

 

[Jonesey]

The more I'm thinking on this, rebuilding the 2LTE makes me a bit nervous because it's the older version of the engine and I fear I'd be heading down the road of a failed head (if not already) or some other engine failure in future, like others have noted on here and as I've read in some older posts on mud. That said, if I did rebuild/determine rebuild is viable, I would convert to Evans Waterless...the one item I didn't yet do in list of mods...

I'd be willing to attempt a 1KZTE swap, but I'm nervous I won't be able to get the injection pump and transmission bits sorted out...to save investment I have in my LJ78 (perhaps it would maintain it's worth if I get a good running engine in it), I might even be willing to convert to a manual transmission at this point...if I did that, would I be better off / would this be doable? What would I have to do to get this to work...

Aside from a rebuild of the 2LTE...swap ideas:

OPTION A
1KZ-TE (it says hilux/surf/4runner in posting...finding a 1KZ-TE out of a KZJ LC seems difficult?):
See image below and some questions:

1. Is using this particular engine even possible?
2. Convert to manual injection pump - necessary, correct? 4m40 or something from Kaiapoi Repowers?
3. Could I put the 1KZ-TE (shown below) in my LJ78 with the manual transmission that comes with it? I would need to figure out the clutch pedal/linkages and all those parts/pieces... which is also daunting to me. Not even sure things would line up / come into correct area of LJ78 / work out...
4. Understand I will have to do custom engine mounts, what about transmission mounts?
5. Guessing driveshaft wouldn't work / different lengths? ...custom driveshaft?

OPTION B
Regarding a newer version 2LTE swap:
See image below. Came out of a LXS11 Crown Comfort. Is this what @digitalbuck was attempting? Same engine?

1. Would this work as an engine swap into my 2LTE? What would I have to do?
2. Would my ECU plug into this and operate everything? Mainly, would injection pump and automatic transmission work?
3. If I could find this without the transmission, would it bolt right up to my automatic transmission in my '91 LJ78 2LTE and could I have my current ECU operate everything?
4. I would need a new radiator? Looks like this doesn't have the coolant fill cap to the right of the head cover like my 2LTE does.
5. BEST OPTION? Could I just strip all my 2LTE parts off and use all my parts on this instead of using parts that come with this engine? Literally strip everything off my 2LTE and strip everything off this one, put my parts on the new engine...then I'd just be using this newer version 2LTE as a partial engine assembly. This seems like best route if this would mate up to my current auto transmission?

 

[GreenPump]

You could also buy a newer fully assembled head from HD Auto. They'd ship it to you in the states. I've bought a lot of stuff from them. Takes 2-3 weeks for heavy items to arrive but the 60 cents to 1.0 USD exchange rate makes it not too bad even shipped.

You can rebuild your bottom end, and slap a new head on there.

That way you know everything is perfect. If you do everything yourself can probably keep it relatively cheap. A few grand, maybe. Then you don't have to worry about a mystery import engine

 

[Jonesey]

You could also buy a newer fully assembled head from HD Auto. They'd ship it to you in the states. I've bought a lot of stuff from them. Takes 2-3 weeks for heavy items to arrive but the 60 cents to 1.0 USD exchange rate makes it not too bad even shipped.

You can rebuild your bottom end, and slap a new head on there.

That way you know everything is perfect. If you do everything yourself can probably keep it relatively cheap. A few grand, maybe. Then you don't have to worry about a mystery import engine

Thanks, @GreenPump, appreciate your assistance and thoughts on this. I AM trying to keep costs down. I also want to do this right / with something that will last. I like the idea of avoiding a mystery import engine. To be extra clear, if I did rebuild my bottom end with machined block and crank, new bearings, piston rings, etc. then put a new head on, this is the head I'd go for (I have the 1st gen 2LTE head now), and would be a direct fit to my 2LTE block, correct?

SMS Hilux 3L Assembled Cylinder Head - HD Automotive

SMS Hilux 3L Assembled Cylinder Head

hdautomotive.com.au

Thanks,
Dylan

 

[Nzpighunter]

All the L series are interchangable so that motor should run with the auto. the transmission has a separate computer to run anyway the electronics on the motor is pretty basic don't know how much it actual talks to the trans. you can just swap the coolant elbow with the radiator cap on it over to that motor and the intake top with the kickdown cable for the transmission and swap the flywheel for the torque converter. Possibly some never electrical stuff or different plugs cause it's out of something different but just swap that over from yours it's the same block. Someone else will have more knowledge then me on it