I am yet again bringing you a Head-gasket rebuild thread

[JM74]

Little work on car after working today... got the Supra injectors installed and tied up the wiring harness a little more

Hps silicon Heater Hose and hps fuel injection clamps for the throttle body cooler, all 6 new crush washers on the fuel filter and rail and some new return hose

Dielectric Grease on all harness connections and have something nifty for the throttle body harness extension and coolant hose

 

[JM74]

 

[JM74]

Supercharger pulley paint and engine pull mount thing... just used some rust oleum engine paint

 

[BILT4ME]

Don't use anti-seize on spark plug threads again.
Don't use anti-seize on a steel bolt into an aluminum part.

Why not?
On spark plugs:
1) The AS can reduce the direct metal to metal contact the plug get to ground the base of the plug. You may reduce the firing efficiency of the plug. Install dry.
2) The AS will cause the plug to turn easier in the threaded hole of you brand new head. If the torque spec is 30 LB-FT, and you torque it to that with your torque wrench, you are actually over-torquing your plugs and run a very high risk of stripping the threads in a spark plug hole.

On steel bolt into an aluminum part:
Same as #2.

Makes it VERY easy to strip a hole.
Also, if you use the aluminum AS, it has aluminum flake in it. This can actually cause a gall in the threads because the aluminum in the AS "melts" into the threads during high force and it galls the hole.

You should use copper based AS on aluminum parts. Cue the folks about electrolysis between Cu, AL and Fe.....

 

[JM74]

Don't use anti-seize on spark plug threads again.
Don't use anti-seize on a steel bolt into an aluminum part.

Why not?
On spark plugs:
1) The AS can reduce the direct metal to metal contact the plug get to ground the base of the plug. You may reduce the firing efficiency of the plug. Install dry.
2) The AS will cause the plug to turn easier in the threaded hole of you brand new head. If the torque spec is 30 LB-FT, and you torque it to that with your torque wrench, you are actually over-torquing your plugs and run a very high risk of stripping the threads in a spark plug hole.

On steel bolt into an aluminum part:
Same as #2.

Makes it VERY easy to strip a hole.
Also, if you use the aluminum AS, it has aluminum flake in it. This can actually cause a gall in the threads because the aluminum in the AS "melts" into the threads during high force and it galls the hole.

You should use copper based AS on aluminum parts. Cue the folks about electrolysis between Cu, AL and Fe.....

Damn knowledge drop!! I appreciate that though, learning new things is great, helps for the next time

Would you recommend pulling the plugs and stripping by the AS then? And just going forward not run AS and if really necessary run a little copper based AS

I believe the torque spec on the plugs was around 20ftlb so hopefully didn’t strip them out

 

[fjbj40]

Personally I would not use any, in fact I'd use anti-sieze. Steel studs into aluminum can corrode and bind up. I've not heard of studs or nuts backing off on the items you mentioned. I used a bit of anti-sieze on all fasteners that went into aluminum when I put mine together.

Lock-tite is actually better than anti-seize when it comes to steel/SS into aluminum. It acts the same/better actually, as anti-seize in preventing seizing but also locks it in.
I have learned this from reading technical journals years ago and personal experience with boats in salt water.

If you don’t want to use blue or red because the strength is not required just use purple.

If you insist on anti-seize make sure you use the correct one, there are different formulas for SS in aluminum, steel in steel etc

Edit: I an not talking about spark plugs just to clarify

The steel fasteners and spark plug threads have a nickel cadmium coating applied to them. This is the barrier which is supposed to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion. However, a fair percentage of it wears off when they are being threaded together.
Anti-seize/lock-tite helps here by providing a coating but mostly by filling the voids between the male and female threads.
It’s in these voids where the corrosion starts. Despite what everyone thinks the threads do not make 100% contact after being torqued. There is actually a shockingly small amount of contact, I have read as low as 30%.
Filling these voids, using anti-seize or lock-tite excludes moisture thereby preventing corrosion. Lock-tite is better at this as it does not “Leak past” the threads as it cures to a solid vs the AS oil based lubricant mixed with the metallic or graphite solids.
The further the absence of AS on spark plugs, as Bilt4me stated, it’s important to mention aluminum threads vs Steel heli-coil threads. With aluminum threads, as he stated, it’s easy to over torque and cause damage if you utilize AS. I use AS on all my plugs, I do use copper base and reduce my torque valu by 5ft/lb .
In heli-coil inserts I use full tq value.

 

[BILT4ME]

Damn knowledge drop!! I appreciate that though, learning new things is great, helps for the next time

Would you recommend pulling the plugs and stripping by the AS then? And just going forward not run AS and if really necessary run a little copper based AS

I believe the torque spec on the plugs was around 20ftlb so hopefully didn’t strip them out

I'm 50/50 on pulling the plugs and cleaning them off.
1) They are already in there and torqued to whatever you set them.
2) The female threads now have a coating of AS on them, so you would have to pull the plug and clean as well as something the clean out the female threads in the head.

I would say leave it at this point unless the work loose or you have a serious firing problem.

 

[JM74]

I'm 50/50 on pulling the plugs and cleaning them off.
1) They are already in there and torqued to whatever you set them.
2) The female threads now have a coating of AS on them, so you would have to pull the plug and clean as well as something the clean out the female threads in the head.

I would say leave it at this point unless the work loose or you have a serious firing problem.

Yes what I kinda figured, what’s done is done, I’m sure they’ll be fine. I was always under the impression of some AS on spark plugs was a thing but I guess I was incorrect!!

Thanks for the input, really appreciate it

 

[fjbj40]

Damn knowledge drop!! I appreciate that though, learning new things is great, helps for the next time

Would you recommend pulling the plugs and stripping by the AS then? And just going forward not run AS and if really necessary run a little copper based AS

I believe the torque spec on the plugs was around 20ftlb so hopefully didn’t strip them out

Leave them!

 

[JM74]

Lock-tite is actually better than anti-seize when it comes to steel/SS into aluminum. It acts the same/better actually, as anti-seize in preventing seizing but also locks it in.
I have learned this from reading technical journals years ago and personal experience with boats in salt water.

If you don’t want to use blue or red because the strength is not required just use purple.

If you insist on anti-seize make sure you use the correct one, there are different formulas for SS in aluminum, steel in steel etc

Edit: I an not talking about spark plugs just to clarify

The steel fasteners and spark plug threads have a nickel cadmium coating applied to them. This is the barrier which is supposed to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion. However, a fair percentage of it wears off when they are being threaded together.
Anti-seize/lock-tite helps here by providing a coating but mostly by filling the voids between the male and female threads.
It’s in these voids where the corrosion starts. Despite what everyone thinks the threads do not make 100% contact after being torqued. There is actually a shockingly small amount of contact, I have read as low as 30%.
Filling these voids, using anti-seize or lock-tite excludes moisture thereby preventing corrosion. Lock-tite is better at this as it does not “Leak past” the threads as it cures to a solid vs the LT oil based lubricant mixed with the metallic or graphite solids.
The further the absence of AS on spark plugs, as Bilt4me stated, it’s important to mention aluminum threads vs Steel heli-coil threads. With aluminum threads, as he stated, it’s easy to over torque and cause damage if you utilize AS. I use AS on all my plugs, I do use copper base and reduce my torque valu by 5ft/lb .
In heli-coil inserts I use full tq value.

Damn appreciate that!! Yes I’m going to leave them haha, but I am going to go with copper AS as you say next time and reduce my torque rating

Who knows how long these plugs will last, they’re full cooper and apparently require pretty frequent change out but they do run better under boost apparently so I’m trying them out for now!

 

[fjbj40]

As for the copper crush washer? Yes you can re-use it.

It needs to be annealed. Simply heat it up to a cherry red color and quench it in water, it is now soft again and can be re-used

 

[JM74]

As for the copper crush washer? Yes you can re-use it.

It needs to be annealed. Simply heat it up to a cherry red color and quench it in water, it is now soft again and can be re-used

Ahh it’s already installed, I did end up ordering a few to have but I figured this one would probably be fine for now...? I could pull it and do the procedure you mentioned

 

[fjbj40]

Just make a list of things you need to leak check after she is running and has ran for a few hundred KM’s .

Leave it for now in other words

 

[JM74]

Just make a list of things you need to leak check after she is running and has ran for a few hundred KM’s .

Leave it for now in other words

Agreed that was the plan! I’ll be keeping a close eye on her !

Excited to have my daily driver back again

 

[sbman]

Don't use anti-seize on spark plug threads again.
Don't use anti-seize on a steel bolt into an aluminum part.

Why not?
On spark plugs:
1) The AS can reduce the direct metal to metal contact the plug get to ground the base of the plug. You may reduce the firing efficiency of the plug. Install dry.
2) The AS will cause the plug to turn easier in the threaded hole of you brand new head. If the torque spec is 30 LB-FT, and you torque it to that with your torque wrench, you are actually over-torquing your plugs and run a very high risk of stripping the threads in a spark plug hole.

On steel bolt into an aluminum part:
Same as #2.

Makes it VERY easy to strip a hole.
Also, if you use the aluminum AS, it has aluminum flake in it. This can actually cause a gall in the threads because the aluminum in the AS "melts" into the threads during high force and it galls the hole.

You should use copper based AS on aluminum parts. Cue the folks about electrolysis between Cu, AL and Fe.....

I disagree on #1, that is not the case. I've read multiple studies that show that the thread contact metal/metal and conductivity is not diminished by what you put on it, whether it is pipe dope, teflon tape, loctite, or anti-sieze. The threads make metal to metal contact as you tighten it up and whatever you've put in the way fills gaps in the threads. Here is one such example with pipe dope with a bunch of conductivity testing:

The Myths & Realities of Using Pipe Dope on Threads - Seaboard Marine

Yes using anti sieze does change the torque required for tightening, about 30% decrease in required torque.

I've had too many siezed/corroded/galled threads in aluminum stuff from spark plugs to studs that I always use it, and just use a bit less torque when tightening down. I also use marine grade non-metallic anti sieze so there is no electrolysis issues. Working on boats has really shown me the value of coating threads with anti sieze if you ever want to have a chance of taking it apart in the future when the parts are working in a harsh environment.

 

[BILT4ME]

I disagree on #1, that is not the case. I've read multiple studies that show that the thread contact metal/metal and conductivity is not diminished by what you put on it, whether it is pipe dope, teflon tape, loctite, or anti-sieze. The threads make metal to metal contact as you tighten it up and whatever you've put in the way fills gaps in the threads. Here is one such example with pipe dope with a bunch of conductivity testing:

The Myths & Realities of Using Pipe Dope on Threads - Seaboard Marine

Yes using anti sieze does change the torque required for tightening, about 30% decrease in required torque.

I've had too many siezed/corroded/galled threads in aluminum stuff from spark plugs to studs that I always use it, and just use a bit less torque when tightening down. I also use marine grade non-metallic anti sieze so there is no electrolysis issues. Working on boats has really shown me the value of coating threads with anti sieze if you ever want to have a chance of taking it apart in the future when the parts are working in a harsh environment.

My largest concern is the stripping of the threads in the holes. Yes, there is debate on the change in grounding, and I am less worried about it because you can also increase the gap on the plug and achieve a similar result.

However, the change in torque of 30%+ is significant. I have seen MANY aluminum heads (not necessarily 1FZ) that had the spark plug holes stripped due to over zealous installers.

I am generally a firm believer in anti-seize and I use it liberally, just not on aluminum parts, typically.

 

[JM74]

My largest concern is the stripping of the threads in the holes. Yes, there is debate on the change in grounding, and I am less worried about it because you can also increase the gap on the plug and achieve a similar result.

However, the change in torque of 30%+ is significant. I have seen MANY aluminum heads (not necessarily 1FZ) that had the spark plug holes stripped due to over zealous installers.

I am generally a firm believer in anti-seize and I use it liberally, just not on aluminum parts, typically.

Noted and really appreciate the info guys!! If I’m to do any more antisize on the head I’ll make sure to lower my torque values from the FSM, the only other place I can think of using a little is the studs for the exhaust manifold...

The lower intake manifold is already all buttoned up without any so won’t be worrying about that

 

[JM74]

Quick evening, didn’t have too much free time, exhaust manifolds re-installed and my super redneck rigged up heat shields

Exhaust manifolds measured within useable specs, coolant hose installed, next is supercharger and then intake...

Not much left now! Waiting on a partsouq order but hopefully it’ll be here early next week

 

[JM74]

More and more, getting there, still waiting on that order from partsouq but once that’s here I’ll finish it all up!

 

[JM74]