Future Land Cruiser directions

[Harper34]

I agree with you on the very low end torque advantage of the diesel.

In regards to more low end HP. Let's talk about that.

5.7L gasser - 383 HP @5600, 403 TQ @3600
4.5L TT diesel - 268 HP @3600 480 TQ @1600-2800 (without USDM emissions)

It would be nice to overlay dynos. Short of that, translating the 5.7L 403tq@3600 (403*3600/5252) = 276HP @ 3600. Even at 3600rpm, the 5.7L already makes more HP than the 4.5L diesel can ever muster. The 5.7L then runs away with additional rpm headroom to continue to pile on its 115hp advantage.

You're just stating the obvious here. At its peak torque RPM, the 5.7l makes more HP than does the 4.5l v8...this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

At low RPM's (which is relevant for towing and offroading), the 4.5l thrives, whereas the 5.7l needs to rev higher to provide comparable grunt. A torque curve would help illustrate that...but also if you'd spent any time actually driving the two, you would realize what I'm talking about.

Gasoline v8's need rev's and added cooling for the slow-speed, high work-load stuff that trucks tend to get used for. They work well for those applications, but diesels are inherently better suited for that sort of stuff. My take, which is just as subjective as your take on this topic.

The 5.7L under 3600 is ultra smooth and ultra quiet. The 4.5L diesel is not as much, because of inherent diesel traits. Trade low rpm tractability for more NVH?

I think you're being overly generous by saying that the 5.7l is smooth and quiet under 3.6k RPM's. But I do concede (as I already have in previous posts) that the 5.7l is smoother and quieter as compared to the 4.5l diesel v8 at lower RPM's. HOwever, you will need to rev the 5.7l to the higher RPM's to get usable grunt for high work-load applications, which negates much of the NVH advantage....to the point where I honestly feel a lot more comfortable driving a diesel down rugged and lonely roads rather than a gasoline. You just don't need to work them as hard as gassers to get over obstacles and haul a payload. Again, if you'd have spent any time actually driving a modern diesel in offroad scenarios, you'd see what I'm getting at. Showing a youtube video hardly proves anything.

Diesel convenience is a thing. I'm on the towing boards and there's tons of threads that praise diesel models yes. There's also ones that talk about the inconvenience of diesel availability and fueling with the single pump on the end, during holidays for example.. Or waiting for contractors to fuel and get their refreshments, while one's trailer is sticking out of the road. One could use commercial truck fueling stations, yet that's not my idea of comfort and convenience to be mixing it up with that crowd. It's a minutia significant enough that there's people switching away from diesels and their other disadvantages, for modern gassers.

You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Diesel is widely available in North America because a lot of industries and self-employed workers rely upon it. There are usually less diesel pumps versus gasoline pumps at the average fuel station, but then again there are far more people driving gasoline vehicles versus diesel ones. If you're worried about waiting in a line at a fuel station on a busy holiday, then you should sell your vehicle and avoid driving all together...because many fuel stations will have lines on busy weekends, irrespective of which fuel type you're using.

 

[Harper34]

these two guys drive a model 3 coast to coast across Canada in 3 days non stop. Recharging didn’t take them much time.

It did take them a lot of time...they just recharged during sleep or food breaks, of which I'm sure they took at least a few.

I'm really not saying anything outlandish here. Go time yourself as you fill up your vehicle with max capacity fuel and then time someone as they recharge their EV to max capacity. They're not even in the same ballpark.

 

[coleAK]

It did take them a lot of time...they just recharged during sleep or food breaks, of which I'm sure they took at least a few.

I'm really not saying anything outlandish here. Go time yourself as you fill up your vehicle with max capacity fuel and then time someone as they recharge their EV to max capacity. They're not even in the same ballpark.

But they also had to stop and eat and stop to sleep.
Yes if you had to time how long it takes to charge empty to full in an EV vs gas the gas is quicker, but <10min to get 150 miles of charge isn’t very long. And you almost never need to fill an EV to max capacity. I always say think of how often you would need to put fuel in your car if every day you woke up with a full tank? That is how often you will need to spend time charging. So what I’m saying is It’s really the opposite, with an EV you spend a lot less time fueling up. Just get home and plug in. No more spending 10min stoping by the pumps on my way home or getting gas after costo. Over the course of a year I save hours a month not needing to go to gas stations. I never considered that until we owned one.

Until you own an EV you can’t understand. Only time I ever think about getting fuel is A couple times a year.

 

[bloc]

Now that I've slogged through this conversation I know the following:

*A quieter engine is actually louder
*An engine that makes 42% more power than another is actually worse at towing
*An engine that when stock lets dirt past the air filter actually only has problems when people modify it
*An engine that has far more power than needed on trails at 13k feet of elevation would benefit from a liter less displacement and a turbo

Any other nuggets of wisdom I'm missing?

 

[OSS]

What's interesting (to me at least) is that all this talk of diesels and V8s and V6s and turbos reminds me of what the dinosaurs must have talked about before the asteroid hit. Little did they suspect that their world was soon coming to an end as they knew it.
The same holds true for the internal combustion engine. It's days (for passenger vehicles) are coming to an end. Some people are still in denial or are uncomfortable with the fact- but the IC bomb is on its way and there's nothing that can stop it.

 

[White Stripe]

I don't think a EV would suit my needs in a land cruiser. Many of the places I intend to go with my cruiser even having electricity period is sketchy. In addition some of the areas that are more dangerous where I want to just go through as fast as possible, the last thing I would want to do is have to stop and sit and wait for the battery to charge. I also need the ability to carry extra fuel so that if I run low, I can pull the cans in the carrier and fill up to tide me over until I get to a gas station. If the battery runs out on a electric vehicle you can't pull out a gas can and fill it up a bit and continue on.
As far as the 5.7, its a ok engine but thats it from what Ive seen. I have seen several developing severe piston slap over 150k miles.

 

[bloc]

What's interesting (to me at least) is that all this talk of diesels and V8s and V6s and turbos reminds me of what the dinosaurs must have talked about before the asteroid hit. Little did they suspect that their world was soon coming to an end as they knew it.
The same holds true for the internal combustion engine. It's days (for passenger vehicles) are coming to an end. Some people are still in denial or are uncomfortable with the fact- but the IC bomb is on its way and there's nothing that can stop it.

This is true but what is the reasonable timeframe for ICE vehicles to be taken off the road? Has to be on the order of a decade or three.

Needlessly junking otherwise operable vehicles isn’t good for the environment either.

So yeah, I’m interested in what toyota has up their sleeve for the 300 even if I won’t be buying a new one. Used in a few years is very possible.

 

[desmocruiser]

Toyota is certainly faced with a tough decision regarding the Land Cruiser Brand, it will be interesting to see the outcome.

If I were betting, with means little, here would be where I would place my money in the order of my guess probability:

-There will be a Lexus LX next iteration

-It will likely have Hybrid technology. The hybrid technology may be the AWD source.

-There is a possibility of a lesser configured Land Cruiser without Hybrid and a more traditional (simpler) AWD setup.

All being said I have no idea, just some wishful thinking, but I do think my dream of a US Spec diesel LC is over, diesels are heading out of popularity (all but HD trucks) here and in Europe.

 

[Captndcoke]

Future Landcruiser’s direction

Toyota Might Be Planning Massive Changes to Its Trucks and SUVs | Gear Patrol

A report citing a Toyota insider suggests that new versions of the Land Cruiser, 4Runner and Sequoia SUVs and Tacoma and Tundra trucks will arrive soo

gearpatrol.com

 

[TeCKis300]

In more 300-series news

2021 Toyota Land Cruiser hybrid, non-hybrid specifications - Autoblog

Toyota is in the final stages of developing the next-generation Land Cruiser. It will get a downsized engine but it will remain a rugged off-roader.

www.autoblog.com

 

[OSS]

So we get to see it in July-August. Oh goodie goodie.
Those of you with tons of cash lying around would do well to buy another new 200 series and put it in storage before the 300 drops. It's destiny as a coveted classic is guaranteed. The end of the V8

 

[M1911]

So we get to see it in July-August.

Maybe. This article is yet another one based on rumors and unnamed sources.

 

[stonepa]

I'm sure all this will shake out about the time I need a new LC. Given I daily drove my 100 for 17 years, I think I have time to wait.

 

[Cypher]

Regarding the Autoblog article.

An interesting mention that the truck will be shorter and roof heights will possibly vary by market. Not sure I would want something shorter than our current 200. We also have a 5th Gen 4Runner, and I love the size of it as well, but it does not work for a family of 5 with two car seats. Much less trying to go camping in the 4Runner. I hope that the shorter size is due to the smaller engine and hopefully cabin space is equal to or greater than the current 200.

 

[TeCKis300]

More bread crumbs and speculation on the 300. Suggesting a moved or delayed 2021 release. With the additional coronavirus factor, seems likely.

New Toyota Land Cruiser 300 won't launch until 2021: The plot thickens for incoming icon - reports

Regarding the Autoblog article.

An interesting mention that the truck will be shorter and roof heights will possibly vary by market. Not sure I would want something shorter than our current 200. We also have a 5th Gen 4Runner, and I love the size of it as well, but it does not work for a family of 5 with two car seats. Much less trying to go camping in the 4Runner. I hope that the shorter size is due to the smaller engine and hopefully cabin space is equal to or greater than the current 200.

I agree with you that I don't necessarily want a smaller cabin in the 300-series. As it's moving to a V6 architecture, there's good possibility for packaging optimizations in the engine bay to reduce length. Most of Toyota's V6 and V8s have a 4.154" bore center. Lopping off 2 cylinders would provide at least that much improvement in engine length, engine bay length, and overall length.

But what about fitment of the international v8 turbo diesel? There's speculation that the diesel will also move to a V6 format.

Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series imminent - carsales.com.au

Next-generation ’Cruiser to appear within months with torque-laden turbo V6 petrol-electric hybrid powertrain

www.carsales.com.au

The V6 isn't my favorite layout but it's hard to argue with it's packaging advantages. In a time where EVs dedicate so little space to mechanicals, ICE vehicles need to keep chasing better packaging to keep up.

 

[bloc]

Regarding the Autoblog article.

An interesting mention that the truck will be shorter and roof heights will possibly vary by market. Not sure I would want something shorter than our current 200. We also have a 5th Gen 4Runner, and I love the size of it as well, but it does not work for a family of 5 with two car seats. Much less trying to go camping in the 4Runner. I hope that the shorter size is due to the smaller engine and hopefully cabin space is equal to or greater than the current 200.

This is their "big" lexus SUV.. it seems like reducing cabin space would be a very tough sell.