My front suspension and steering have started getting really squeaky. Took it to Toyota dealership and their diagnosis was that upper and lower control arms and ball joints all need replacing. They quoted me $4k for the work. Local shop will do the lot for $1.2k but with ISG (international suspension group) parts. Any reason I should go with Toyota??
Front end squeak - upper/lower control arms. Toyota dealership vs local (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter 2000Elsie
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What do you use your vehicle for? Is it stock? Lifted? Details
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- #3
OME nitro charger shocks, Slee heavy rear springs, BFG KO tires. Vehicle is my full-time home, lots of dirt roads, some moderate passes and a Baja trip in the not so distant future.
Did they give you any more details, or let you come back and see the condition? I'm an assistant service manager at a Toyota dealership, and they should have at least supported their recommendations. I can look up parts or labor times if you need to verify anything. But I can't imagine a squeak needs all that work.
I have some similar symptoms and addressing some things this weekend to see if it fixes. If you are lifted just replace OEM UCAs with SPC. I bet price to new OEM is similar.
Cruiser outfitters has ball joints and while Toyota will want to do whole LCA you can just do ball joints for a fraction of price (labor not cheapest though if you don't do it yourself). If those don't fix squeek, you may need to do bushings, which I don't know much about, but are probably a bit of a pain to get in and do.
When do you hear squeak? Turning at stop/low speeds or when wheel has to go up and down?
Cruiser outfitters has ball joints and while Toyota will want to do whole LCA you can just do ball joints for a fraction of price (labor not cheapest though if you don't do it yourself). If those don't fix squeek, you may need to do bushings, which I don't know much about, but are probably a bit of a pain to get in and do.
When do you hear squeak? Turning at stop/low speeds or when wheel has to go up and down?
Helps to provide year and mileage on your truck and any other relevant service history when posting.
Squeak is treatable and not necessarily a cause for replacing parts- however remarkable play requires replacement. Have you inspected on your own, or are you going from what service have told you? Is there remarkable play in the upper & lower ball joints, are the boots torn and leaking ? UCA and LCA bushings loose or cracked? What is the condition of your swaybar bushings and links?
Upper & Lower control arms are pretty robust- can last 200-300+k; the ball joints dont last that long but those are replaceable with 555 Brand for maybe $200/$250+/- for all four + labor. The bushings in the UCA & LCA are replaceable if the arms themselves are not crusty. Sway bar hardware is cheap- <$100.
Dont settle for aftermarket hardware with the exception of the 555 ball joints; those are proven to be pretty durable and save you the cost of buying entirely new control arms to get new ball joints. Aftermarket replacement control arms(febest, moog, napa etc) are crap and will not last long. If your paying labor for the work, you dont want to have to pay again in a year or two.
Squeak is treatable and not necessarily a cause for replacing parts- however remarkable play requires replacement. Have you inspected on your own, or are you going from what service have told you? Is there remarkable play in the upper & lower ball joints, are the boots torn and leaking ? UCA and LCA bushings loose or cracked? What is the condition of your swaybar bushings and links?
Upper & Lower control arms are pretty robust- can last 200-300+k; the ball joints dont last that long but those are replaceable with 555 Brand for maybe $200/$250+/- for all four + labor. The bushings in the UCA & LCA are replaceable if the arms themselves are not crusty. Sway bar hardware is cheap- <$100.
Dont settle for aftermarket hardware with the exception of the 555 ball joints; those are proven to be pretty durable and save you the cost of buying entirely new control arms to get new ball joints. Aftermarket replacement control arms(febest, moog, napa etc) are crap and will not last long. If your paying labor for the work, you dont want to have to pay again in a year or two.
- Thread starter
- #7
Nope, just told me ball joints were excessively loose/worn and recommended replacing UCA and LCA. Guess I'll take it to the local place for a second opinion..
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- #8
Squeaks are heard going over the slightest bumps, and even breaking or speeding up. And also while turning the wheel at a standstill or going slow. Steering also feels sightly losel, especially on rocky trails where it feels like the wheel gets jerked around when hitting rocks
- Thread starter
- #9
Year 2000, 160k miles. Only had the truck a couple of months so service history is going by what PO told me (baseline and mods done at around 120k in 2012).
Like I posted above, steering also feels sightly loose to me on rough roads, bit this is my first off road vehicle so I have nothing to compare with to see how much of it is normal.
Only going by what Toyota told me. Not super mechanically inclined and currently on the road.
Sounds like I should definitely get a second opinion and possibly try ball joints and bushings first to see if that fixes things.
re_guderian
SILVER Star
Roll under your truck and look at the condition of the ball joint boots. Your symptoms sound very much like ball joints, but squeaks can come from a myriad of sources. Check for leaking grease at the boots. If so, I second the SPC uppers and 555 lowers. I went through the same a few years ago, and it made a world of difference. Toyota doesn't sell ball joints separately, hence their recommendation for arm replacement, ad that's their only way to accomplish it.
- Thread starter
- #11
Yup, left side does have grease around the clamp on the wheel end. Right side looks clean but the squeak does seem to come more from the left. You mean SPC upper and 555 lower ball joints only, right?
@ 160k miles- I'd start with ball joints only after making sure they are actually worn out. Usually worn balljoints "POP" and "CLUNK" when turing and stopping. A little grease around the boots is normal. Replacing boots on the BJ is kind of the first step if they are ok. You can use a pry bar to try and find remarkable play or looseness in the BJ but the FSM calls for using a small torque wrench on the BJ and measuring resistance as you turn the wrench; not easy to accurately perform and requires disconnecting the ball joint from the knuckle to do. If you're that far, rebooting or removing the BJ from the UCA or LCA is "fairly" easy next step .
Unless you're lifted 2+ inches theres no need for aftermarket UCA's unless you want or need the camber and caster adjustability.
You feeling the wheel getting jerked around offroad is normal. And the looseness you feel off road to a degree is normal. The litmus test is how it drives on pavement- if you hit pot holes or uneven breaks in the pavement, does it dart or pull left or right, does the steering wander at highway speeds requiring active correction to stay straight etc.
Unless you're lifted 2+ inches theres no need for aftermarket UCA's unless you want or need the camber and caster adjustability.
You feeling the wheel getting jerked around offroad is normal. And the looseness you feel off road to a degree is normal. The litmus test is how it drives on pavement- if you hit pot holes or uneven breaks in the pavement, does it dart or pull left or right, does the steering wander at highway speeds requiring active correction to stay straight etc.
- Thread starter
- #13
It drives pretty straight on pavement, steering wheel feels like it has a tiny amount of play but nothing really worrisome. Often needs slight corrections to keep going straight but that's a common side effect of wider tires right? (285 in my case) Was more concerned about the off road jerkyness but glad to hear that's normal..
I haven't noticed any pops or clunks.
Not sure on the amount of lift compared to stock..
If I was to just get the ball joints done at the local place I should request that they order Sankei 555 parts only?
I also called back Toyota and they dropped the price for U/LCA from $4k to $2.5k and said they could also do non Toyota parts for $1.1k instead of $1.2k at the other place lol
I haven't noticed any pops or clunks.
Not sure on the amount of lift compared to stock..
If I was to just get the ball joints done at the local place I should request that they order Sankei 555 parts only?
I also called back Toyota and they dropped the price for U/LCA from $4k to $2.5k and said they could also do non Toyota parts for $1.1k instead of $1.2k at the other place lol
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You could always buy the parts yourself and have that local shop you trust install them. It would save you a little cash and you could go with true OEM parts for about the same price as the aftermarket ones installed by the dealer. I can find all 4 front control arms w/ball joints for ~$1,200. Sure, he won't warranty anything since you purchased the parts from a third party; but that doesn't mean he'll do any worse of a job installing them.
- Thread starter
- #15
Thanks for all your input, I'm taking it to a well reviewed local place for a second opinion tomorrow morning.
Got Toyota down to $2500 ($1500 parts/ $1000 labor) which doesn't sound so bad if parts can be had for $1200. Crazy they start at nearly twice that and lower it after one phone call. Ugh
Hoping I can get away with doing ball joints only for now..
Got Toyota down to $2500 ($1500 parts/ $1000 labor) which doesn't sound so bad if parts can be had for $1200. Crazy they start at nearly twice that and lower it after one phone call. Ugh
Hoping I can get away with doing ball joints only for now..
To me that tells me everything I need to know about having work done at a dealership. When a company has so little respect for you that they want to overcharge you by at least $1500... I am sure there are good dealerships out there, but just hasn't been my experience.
Based on your feedback on drivability- I would save your money on buying LCA and UCA and approach this step by step. Doesnt sound like your ball joints are your issue: squeak could be swaybar bushes, link bushes, shock bushes: which one by one can squirted with some silicone spray to determine squeaky component.
The dealer is the last place to go if you cannot fix yourself or find a well reviewed indi shop that will shoot you straight. Get a print out estimate and post it if you dont feel its a reasonable deal.
Good luck
- Thread starter
- #18
Thanks. Could water be the culprit of squeaky bushings? I did Medano Pass a few weeks ago with a few crossings including one or two mid-wheel. Started noticing the noise a while after that.
Trunk Monkey
Moderator
Get under your truck with a mechanic's stethoscope and having someone turn the steering and push up and down on the suspension, see if you can't isolate where the noise is before you throw money at it.
Yikes. Doesn't sound like the way we do business. If you need help, you can give me a call anytime. 806-748-4801 - Josh, ASM
