Fan clutch solves overheating

[cruiserman]

I just received the Hayden clutch from PartsAmerica. It's exactly the same clutch as the Imperial.



That is all

That is odd, but just what I suspected. Rebranding saves $10 @ CSK (partsamerica).

As a side note, CSK does not charge me tax for parts ordered online. They don't charge shipping for parts $50 and over if part weight is less than 20lbs IIRC.

 

[landtank]

As an Update, yesterday the temps here were 95+* and as usual the temp gauge did not move no matter what I did.

Today I pulled the clutch back out and put the control side back on the stove top and re-evaluated how I was setting it up.

I've ironed out the technical part of the procedure to produce consistent results, just need to fine tune the the target temp.

 

[landtank]

another update

Today it was around 86* and I hooked up the trailer and drove my usual test route.

Since the last run I retarded the timing of the clutch slightly to about 10*F from where it was to begin with.

Like all the rest of the test runs the needle stayed dead center of the gauge while driving around town.

However this time the needle moved about a needle's width above horizontal while I was on the highway. The highway run lasted for about 10 minutes and it never got any hotter than that.

In the time it took me to take the exit and come to the end of the ramp the temp had returned to it's horizontal position.

It would seem that at higher RPMs the clutch might not be driving ideally. I've come up with 2 possible reasons for this.

1. the clutch is low on fluid.

2. the fluid CST is too low.

I've got 2 bottles of the 3000cst fluid coming in next week and will be topping off the clutch then. On Friday we leave for our annual Cape Cod trip which is 2 hours of highway to the campground. That should be a good test run for truck.

After the additional oil is added, if I still have this slight temp increase on the highway and it gets no worse than this I think I'll stop here. I'm thinking that it's only a few degrees and the thicker oil might really impact the MPG and require more adjustment to get the control plate to work correctly with the thicker oil.

Everyone who has asked for the instructions should have the new ones which calls for a 110* calibration temp.

 

[Rich]

Rick, it would be interesting to know the actual viscosity of the your current fill. Maybe you could sweet talk Brookfield Engineering into demonstrating one of their viscometers with a sample of fluid from your current factory clutch. They are located in Middleboro. Could be a stop on your way to the cape!

 

[landtank]

Rick, it would be interesting to know the actual viscosity of the your current fill. Maybe you could sweet talk Brookfield Engineering to demo one of their viscometers with a sample of fluid from your current factory clutch. They are located in Middleboro. Could be a stop on your way to the cape!

You should talk with cattledog. He was by here on Friday and I think he works with this stuff on the molecular level. I just want a fan clutch that keeps my temps to 180* give or take 10*.

But if the stuff from Dan looks alot different I'll postpone the fill. I'm planning on putting an eyedropper size drop from the clutch and one from the bottle on a plate and then tilt and time the run. I think I'll be able to see if it's way off.

 

[RCFloyd]

Just an update:

When this thread began, there was talk of the Aisin/OEM fan clutch being physically smaller than the replacement Hayden unit, and followed this was talk of what this might do to power/economy being that it had more mass. However, I received my Hayden last night, and it was quite a bit SMALLER than the Aisin that I replaced it with!

Also, I saw a small amount of tacky oil on the outside of the new fan clutch, and thought "oh crap, it's leaking"... but put it on anyway. I don't know if I heard the famous 'Roar' or not, but it seemed to be much 'airier' under the hood.

Robert

 

[landtank]

oils in

As an update to this saga, I received my oil shipment from Dan while on the road this week so I wasn't able to address the low fill issue I thought I had until tonight.

The oil to the best of my ability is 3000cst in the clutch and that is what Dan sent me.

I cracked open the clutch for like the 10th time and began filling the clutch to where I thought it should be.

It took 1 1/2 tubes of oil, about 27ml of what we suspect is a 50ml fill.

When I started up the truck the roar was more evident and of a slightly longer duration but did settle down within a minute. At this time I shut off the engine and checked that the fan turned easily, which it did. This was to confirm that I hadn't over filled the thing.

Tomorrow we start our week long vacation down at the Cape and it's supposed to be 95+* for that 2.5 hour drive. This will be a great test of what I've done to the clutch.

I honestly think that the small increase in temps on the highway that I saw was do to the clutch being low on oil and not being able to supply enough oil to generate the needed drive to cool the truck properly.

We'll see.

I'm not sure if I'll have Internet while away so you might need to wait a week for the next update.

 

[turbocruiser]

Okay, I'm not arguing at all, just trying to think things through...

if the truck gets hotter at highway speeds why would the clutch be much to blame; I would think that all that airflow would cool the truck regardless. What am I missing? Is the fan really PULLING air through the radiator even at highway speeds? I sorta stereotyped the fan's function to be weighted towards low air speed situations like stop and go traffic? Thanks.

 

[semlin]

it seems that at a certain ambient temperature the increased airflow at highway speeds does not offset the increased engine temp from maintaining those speeds. the most obvious example is a hill. go up a hill flat out and your temp rises faster than if you go up it more slowly even though you see more airflow if you go faster.

 

[turbocruiser]

it seems that at a certain ambient temperature the increased airflow at highway speeds does not offset the increased engine temp from maintaining those speeds. the most obvious example is a hill. go up a hill flat out and your temp rises faster than if you go up it more slowly even though you see more airflow if you go faster.

Right, but, that's the effect of exerting against more 'load' as well. Right?

 

[semlin]

well the load on the hill is the same both times but there is a tipping point the second time where the engine of the truck going faster generates more heat without gaining enough additional airflow to compensate.

with a smaller load on the flat it still seems that, at a certain speed, the engine generates more heat to achieve that speed than the additional airflow can cool. the critical speed where this happens depends on ambient temperatutre. Once it starts to happen, if you maintain that speed with the same load and outside temp then the engine temperature will continue to increase unless you introduce additional cooling. The only additional cooling potential is from the locking up of the fan clutch to increase airflow.

i suppose if someone is ambitious they could try driving a truck on the highway with a dry fan clutch at different ambient temperatures and likely figure out what the tipping point is at different temps. that tipping point would presumably vary according to the cooling system performance of your engine so if multiple people ran the same test you could perhaps figure out whose radiator was working well. Either that or we could get one fan clutch and fedex it around to people who have cooling problems and compare results.

 

[landtank]

At a highway speed the amount of cooling is govern by the ambient temperature. Only so much air will flow through and as the ambient temp rises, the less cooling that same amount of air will have on the radiator.


The way the clutch works is that through the act of shearing the oil it is pumped from the hub side to the control side of the clutch.

Which is what happens during the startup roar. The roar stops because at that point the gates are closed and the oil is held in place at the out edges of the reseviour on the control side by centrifical force.

Now as the temperature starts to influence the spring the gates begin to open.

The first 2 small round ones allow oil to pass into that ringed area providing minimal drive to get the clutch on line and ensure it's getting a healthy feel for the radiator temperature.

Next if the spring continues to move the larger diagonal slots start to open and then oil is allowed to pass to the opposite side of the clutch where it can be sheared to provide more positive drive to the fan.

The issue with oil level comes into play right here. As those slotted holes begin to open they start at the inside of the clutch and then move more open to the outside. If the fill is low, even if the gates are open the oil level could be below this and no drive will be seen until the gates open enough to reach that lower level to allow oil to pass.

On my most recent highway run while towing the trailer I saw a slight bump in temperature and I think it's this low level condition that I was seeing.

I can't be sure but will know soon.

 

[landtank]

drive results

turns out the campground has wireless.

The ambient temps were in the high 90s and I was towing a 3500# trailer with other stuf fpacked in the cruiser and the AC was on as well.

For the most part the temp gauge was about 1/2 needle high on the gauge. During some long climbs where the truck was floored and in 3rd gear with the TC unlocked they would climb slightly to a needle above and would spike momentarilly at the crest of the hill where the truck would upshift to 4th. At this point it would be about 2 needle widths above normal and would settle back down to 1/2 needle above rather quickly.

This drive showed my two things I think.

1. While I added 1.5 tubes of oil to the clutch it ddin't change the highway temps while towing.

2. adding 1.5 tubes of oil didn't over fill the clutch.

The end of the drive brought us to Cape Cod and the ambient temps did drop considerably and the trucks temp immediately went back to normal at the horizontal position.

Right now I'm not sure what to do, if to do anything at all. I'm guessing that the hottest the truck got was @ 200*F and that was just during those short times after a climb.

While the added oil in the clutch didn't seem to help with the rising temps I think it was worth while to add it as the addition oil might help with higher operating temps within the clutch.


Open for suggestion.

 

[Tools R Us]

It sounds like it works, those temps don't sound out of line? If you want to play, try sucking some out and replacing it with 10,000cst, one bottle from Dan would bump it to the ~5000cst range?

 

[semlin]

i would be overjoyed with landtank's results. the wife has the cruiser out of town so i can't test the clutch fan mod yet

 

[cruiserdan]

the wife has the cruiser out of town....

How'd that happen?..

 

[semlin]

How'd that happen?..

Somehow she had to get two kids, one great grandmother, 2 bikes, a sabot sailboat and mast, and 7 weeks worth of luggage and supplies [edit: forgot to mention 3 cats!] up to our summer place. Her Honda Fit did not quite cut the mustard for the task so she had to overcome her cruiserphobia . In fact, I kept her on edge for a while telling her she'd have to take the m101 as well because she forgot to buy a bike rack. then I lashed one of the bikes to the rear bumper ladder

I get to be a bachelor most of the summer but at least I get the cruiser back in a few days because she has to bring it back so I can take my boat up there

 

[cruiserdan]

LOL!....


Did you take a picture before she left?

 

[cruiserdan]

because she has to bring it back so I can take my boat up there

THE boat?


I guess you don't need anything for a while then.....

 

[semlin]

LOL!....


Did you take a picture before she left?

sure, here's one before she made me unhook the trailer and repack