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- Thread starter
- #122
Thanks again guys, this part of the build feels like the toy section.
As for the crossmember, I will be building a new one since I am cutting off the old mounts. I will most likely need to make a U in the new member for the driveshaft. I just wanted to see what kind of clearance issues I might have with that combo and will need a new front driveshaft anyways (lengthening and longer slipspline and what the heck go with a CV so I can angle the axle up for more clearance).
Yes Eskimo, the 4L80e-3 kit from trans-go eliminates the electronics basically turning it into a manual without a clutch, meaning I'll have to shift it from gear to gear. I'm going to use the mech speedo cable hooked up to my transfer case so I don't need the sensor that came on the tranny. I'm looking at different shifters, one from Lokar and of course the well liked (but expensive) one from Art Carr. The "electronics" that I'm keeping are the solenoid that controls the lock-up in the lock-up torque converter. I haven't worked out the details yet (ie wiring, stepping down the voltage, button location) but the plan is to allow lock up in any gear giving me manual efficiency and downhill engine braking. Sounds great for offroad but I'll have to let you know how it feels on the street. I don't know if it will be "clunky" or just shift firmly, there just isn't much google reviewing on these yet. The kit allows for different shift firmness determined by the size of the holes drilled in the separator plate at certain locations. There were three levels, stock, firm, offroad/competition. I choose firm thinking it will be better for street driving.
As for the crossmember, I will be building a new one since I am cutting off the old mounts. I will most likely need to make a U in the new member for the driveshaft. I just wanted to see what kind of clearance issues I might have with that combo and will need a new front driveshaft anyways (lengthening and longer slipspline and what the heck go with a CV so I can angle the axle up for more clearance).
Yes Eskimo, the 4L80e-3 kit from trans-go eliminates the electronics basically turning it into a manual without a clutch, meaning I'll have to shift it from gear to gear. I'm going to use the mech speedo cable hooked up to my transfer case so I don't need the sensor that came on the tranny. I'm looking at different shifters, one from Lokar and of course the well liked (but expensive) one from Art Carr. The "electronics" that I'm keeping are the solenoid that controls the lock-up in the lock-up torque converter. I haven't worked out the details yet (ie wiring, stepping down the voltage, button location) but the plan is to allow lock up in any gear giving me manual efficiency and downhill engine braking. Sounds great for offroad but I'll have to let you know how it feels on the street. I don't know if it will be "clunky" or just shift firmly, there just isn't much google reviewing on these yet. The kit allows for different shift firmness determined by the size of the holes drilled in the separator plate at certain locations. There were three levels, stock, firm, offroad/competition. I choose firm thinking it will be better for street driving.
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- Thread starter
- #123
I was just reading in the diesel forum this morning and Greg_B 
posted a link to some diesel tech that I think is noteworthy to pass on. I've been reading the articles all morning. Just wanted to share it with all who are interested in diesels!
http://www.bankspower.com/tech.cfm
Check it out. Definitely pro diesel.
posted a link to some diesel tech that I think is noteworthy to pass on. I've been reading the articles all morning. Just wanted to share it with all who are interested in diesels!http://www.bankspower.com/tech.cfm
Check it out. Definitely pro diesel.
I was just reading in the diesel forum this morning and Greg_B
http://www.bankspower.com/tech.cfm
Check it out. Definitely pro diesel.
Are great and provide some interesting information about Diesel capabilities .. read the faqs ..
Like btu from gas and diesel ..
clocking
yep i know this, just was curious if you were going to straighten up the mounting for the motor, then clock the t case back flat. OR at least flat bottom if still having leaning motor. set it up drill holes, then drill or die grind the adapter where the cap heads hit.
i understand i prefer GM stuff as well, just options for keeping full auto with a OD for really easy.
manual kits been out for yrs , with or without compression breaking. Several variations and warnings with all of them. ALL are manual shift only at least so far. FEEL of, is more preference IMO, i prefer extremely firm to near snap neck shifts and i always have been that way. Some people dont like it and i understand it as well, but that is why i built it for myself
diesels run cooler then gas motors, only under loads over time do they require more cooling, usually done by just increasing the overall amount of fluid in the cooling system. yes more available energy from diesel, but more efficient less wasted energy, less heat.
can you pull back of trans to end of splines measurement on that output ? looks like the 4.5" ?
BTW spend time on dodge 1stgen forums for the 4bt
several great ones out there.
yep i know this, just was curious if you were going to straighten up the mounting for the motor, then clock the t case back flat. OR at least flat bottom if still having leaning motor. set it up drill holes, then drill or die grind the adapter where the cap heads hit.
i understand i prefer GM stuff as well, just options for keeping full auto with a OD for really easy.
manual kits been out for yrs , with or without compression breaking. Several variations and warnings with all of them. ALL are manual shift only at least so far. FEEL of, is more preference IMO, i prefer extremely firm to near snap neck shifts and i always have been that way. Some people dont like it and i understand it as well, but that is why i built it for myself
diesels run cooler then gas motors, only under loads over time do they require more cooling, usually done by just increasing the overall amount of fluid in the cooling system. yes more available energy from diesel, but more efficient less wasted energy, less heat.
can you pull back of trans to end of splines measurement on that output ? looks like the 4.5" ?
BTW spend time on dodge 1stgen forums for the 4bt
several great ones out there.- Thread starter
- #126
HI^C, I'm out of town for the weekend so I won't be able to get those measurements you asked for until the trip is over. I don't mind running the engine with the tilt. As for grinding the adapter for the bolt heads, if I cannot find some bolts at the local hardware shop I'll probably follow your advice on clearancing the adapter. There is plenty material in that adapter so I don't see a problem taking off just a little. I don't know how important to me it is to get a completely flat belly.
Do you have a particular 1stgen dodge forum that you like to visit and could link here? I figured those guys already have a 6bt or 6at (i think) and it'd be interesting to know why they would swap in a smaller motor (4bt). If it's just for the mileage or other reasons?
Do you have a particular 1stgen dodge forum that you like to visit and could link here? I figured those guys already have a 6bt or 6at (i think) and it'd be interesting to know why they would swap in a smaller motor (4bt). If it's just for the mileage or other reasons?
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- Thread starter
- #128
Just got back last night and thought I'd show how I'm going to cool my tranny
This is my tranny cooler I grabbed off ebay. It's a dodge cummins 3rd gen cooler that runs off the engine coolant. I've been reading some good info on tranny temps and how similar to an engine there is a more efficient operating range. So the tranny and diesel engine will help each other out. Again, I'll install a temp gauge on the tranny and if it is running hotter than I want I will install an inline cooler. Once I get the engine mounted I'll figure out a place to put this and then work on routing and connections.
This is my tranny cooler I grabbed off ebay. It's a dodge cummins 3rd gen cooler that runs off the engine coolant. I've been reading some good info on tranny temps and how similar to an engine there is a more efficient operating range. So the tranny and diesel engine will help each other out. Again, I'll install a temp gauge on the tranny and if it is running hotter than I want I will install an inline cooler. Once I get the engine mounted I'll figure out a place to put this and then work on routing and connections.
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- Thread starter
- #131
weekly update
Sure doesn't feel like I got much done this weekend. Just a lot of cleaning. I think the previous owner had the frame wax coated since there is a waxy residue still on it after I have scrubbed the frame by hand. I plan on recoating the frame so I'm going to have to get that off so the paint will stick. Also scrubbed the axles so I can paint them after I weld on them. Measured, marked and drilled my piolet holes for where I'm going to put shackles through the frame and just need to pick up a hole saw to make my holes. Then I found some rims that I liked better than the ones I had so I picked them up.
Here are the old rims I painted with hammerite and was going to use. Now I'll just sell them.
The new rims. They have 35s on them that I don't care for.
Just for fun.
The 38s make those 35s look small
38s, trimming required
After some knuckle grease cleaning up the firewall
Sure doesn't feel like I got much done this weekend. Just a lot of cleaning. I think the previous owner had the frame wax coated since there is a waxy residue still on it after I have scrubbed the frame by hand. I plan on recoating the frame so I'm going to have to get that off so the paint will stick. Also scrubbed the axles so I can paint them after I weld on them. Measured, marked and drilled my piolet holes for where I'm going to put shackles through the frame and just need to pick up a hole saw to make my holes. Then I found some rims that I liked better than the ones I had so I picked them up.
Here are the old rims I painted with hammerite and was going to use. Now I'll just sell them.
The new rims. They have 35s on them that I don't care for.
Just for fun.
The 38s make those 35s look small
38s, trimming required
After some knuckle grease cleaning up the firewall
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- Thread starter
- #133
weekly update
Worked hard this weekend and got the leaf springs all set up unfortunately with some re-work. The rears lined up perfectly and bolted on but the fronts required the re-work; now it lines up and I feel much better about it.
Here is the kit I used. I bought 4 of them. Comes with an insert, bushings for that insert, and a bolt. Oh yeah and a sticker that will probably give me 20HP
Picked up a 2 inch hole saw and started drilling. This is the passenger front.
Here is the insert in the driver side. I shortened the body mount for shackle clearance. I probably could have cut off less but this made it a little easier to get in there to cut, grind, and weld.
Here it is welded in the first time.
The rear hole ended up right where a factory hole was. I needed a guide for the drill on the holesaw so I tacked a piece on and cut from the other side. Once I cut through the frame I removed my guide plate.
Passenger rear hole cut through the frame from the inside. You can see the guide plate through the hole. This was one of my reasons for boxing in the rear part of the cruiser frame.
After doing some calculations and testing shackle lengths I decided on 5 inch eye-to-eye for the fronts and 6 inch for the rears. Cut these out, tacked them together, and drilled them out on a drill press.
Made two sets for the front and one for the rear. I doubled up the fronts but not the rear. Fronts on the left (1/4 in) and center (3/16 in); rears on the right (1/4 in).
Welded the fronts together and painted them all.
The first time the front springs ended up pointing inwards. I measured three times before I welded it in but I must have missed something because it was wrong. I decided to cut out the shackle mounts and fix the angle. After the re-work I tacked everything together and test fit. I had it right the second time so I took the springs off again and welded everything back on. The front springs are now on.
Driver side front spring hanger.
Passenger side front spring hanger
Passenger front re-worked shackle mount and shackle.
Front inside frame view.
Passenger side rear spring
Passenger rear shackle and mount. These lined right up just like I planned.
Rear shackle angle with no load.
Got new studs, spaced them with washers and attached the discs to the rear axle.
Worked hard this weekend and got the leaf springs all set up unfortunately with some re-work. The rears lined up perfectly and bolted on but the fronts required the re-work; now it lines up and I feel much better about it.
Here is the kit I used. I bought 4 of them. Comes with an insert, bushings for that insert, and a bolt. Oh yeah and a sticker that will probably give me 20HP
Picked up a 2 inch hole saw and started drilling. This is the passenger front.
Here is the insert in the driver side. I shortened the body mount for shackle clearance. I probably could have cut off less but this made it a little easier to get in there to cut, grind, and weld.
Here it is welded in the first time.
The rear hole ended up right where a factory hole was. I needed a guide for the drill on the holesaw so I tacked a piece on and cut from the other side. Once I cut through the frame I removed my guide plate.
Passenger rear hole cut through the frame from the inside. You can see the guide plate through the hole. This was one of my reasons for boxing in the rear part of the cruiser frame.
After doing some calculations and testing shackle lengths I decided on 5 inch eye-to-eye for the fronts and 6 inch for the rears. Cut these out, tacked them together, and drilled them out on a drill press.
Made two sets for the front and one for the rear. I doubled up the fronts but not the rear. Fronts on the left (1/4 in) and center (3/16 in); rears on the right (1/4 in).
Welded the fronts together and painted them all.
The first time the front springs ended up pointing inwards. I measured three times before I welded it in but I must have missed something because it was wrong. I decided to cut out the shackle mounts and fix the angle. After the re-work I tacked everything together and test fit. I had it right the second time so I took the springs off again and welded everything back on. The front springs are now on.
Driver side front spring hanger.
Passenger side front spring hanger
Passenger front re-worked shackle mount and shackle.
Front inside frame view.
Passenger side rear spring
Passenger rear shackle and mount. These lined right up just like I planned.
Rear shackle angle with no load.
Got new studs, spaced them with washers and attached the discs to the rear axle.
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- Thread starter
- #134
Once the springs were done I directed my focus on the engine.
I figured out a way to get the crank pulley off by myself and took off the cover plate to address the KDP. The crank turns the oil pump to the left. To the right the crank powers the camshaft which powers the hydraulic pump (it's a saginaw, powered by the smaller gear) and the fuel pump.
This is the KDP, the killer dowel pin. It's located to the left of that bolt head. This thing will work out and you can see what kind of damage it could do with all those gears working together. The pic makes it look like it's close to level with the case but my pin is actually seated well inside the hole which was a good sign.
The fix is very simple. Restrict it from coming out. I had an broken scale laying around that I cut a piece from. I shaped it, bent it, removed all the paint from it, and fastened it with the bolt that was already there. Now if the pin tries to come out it will hit that tab and it will stop it. This is a common problem on the 4bt's and the 6bt's. One of the very few problems needing to be fixed on these engines
This is the backside of the cover plate. I cleaned it up before putting it back on.
Got out the ol' toothbrush and degreaser and got busy detail cleaning the engine. I'm getting it ready for paint but it sure looks better.
After:
Still soaking the turbo. This week the band is recording. 12 hr work days and recording for 5 hrs after that will make this a long week!
I figured out a way to get the crank pulley off by myself and took off the cover plate to address the KDP. The crank turns the oil pump to the left. To the right the crank powers the camshaft which powers the hydraulic pump (it's a saginaw, powered by the smaller gear) and the fuel pump.
This is the KDP, the killer dowel pin. It's located to the left of that bolt head. This thing will work out and you can see what kind of damage it could do with all those gears working together. The pic makes it look like it's close to level with the case but my pin is actually seated well inside the hole which was a good sign.
The fix is very simple. Restrict it from coming out. I had an broken scale laying around that I cut a piece from. I shaped it, bent it, removed all the paint from it, and fastened it with the bolt that was already there. Now if the pin tries to come out it will hit that tab and it will stop it. This is a common problem on the 4bt's and the 6bt's. One of the very few problems needing to be fixed on these engines
This is the backside of the cover plate. I cleaned it up before putting it back on.
Got out the ol' toothbrush and degreaser and got busy detail cleaning the engine. I'm getting it ready for paint but it sure looks better.
After:
Still soaking the turbo. This week the band is recording. 12 hr work days and recording for 5 hrs after that will make this a long week!
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looking your front springs .. ( maybe just a photo monitor view ) looks your center pin are a little ahead. it could help in the ride section ( with your SR setup ) but could make a little more complicated get the right caster angle in your front housing/knuckles.
- Thread starter
- #136
That's with the springs unloaded and I think they will flatten some with weight. I know the caster will change some when the springs flex but I'll need weight on it to measure the adjustment for my caster. I am planning on a cut 'n turn and maybe I'll add a degree or two more, I was going to shoot for 5-6 degrees. I think a little more is better for bigger tires. For on road handling I don't anticipate seeing the suspension move like it would off road so caster shouldn't change drastically plus I'll be running my swaybar on road to help even things out. We'll have to see how it does.
sweet project......
This is great man. I love the diesel swap!!!! You are getting alot done for working out of "Big Sky Garage" !!! ha ha I would do something about gusseting the front spring front eyebolt hanger!!! Unless I am not seeing it right. Keep the updates coming and thanks for the inspiration!!!
This is great man. I love the diesel swap!!!! You are getting alot done for working out of "Big Sky Garage" !!! ha ha I would do something about gusseting the front spring front eyebolt hanger!!! Unless I am not seeing it right. Keep the updates coming and thanks for the inspiration!!!
- Thread starter
- #139
Thanks, and yes I do plan on gusseting those mounts. I have not done that yet. I think I'll put two on the sides: one underneath and one on top although I can probably get away with just one. I've been focusing on the engine lately so I can get that sucker put in!
- Thread starter
- #140
weekly update
Busy week at work and then recording at night but I managed to get a little time on the cruiser. I've been trying to focus on the engine because that's what is holding up the rest of the drivetrain. I needed to do just a little more cleaning before I could paint it and I'll probably open up the front cover again and get to the other bolts behind the gears to locktight them. I ordered my trio of gauges and they will be here by thursday. I got the common setup most diesel guys like to run: Pyrometer, Boost, and tranny temp.
I took off the valve covers so I could get inbetween them to clean out the crud.
Inside of valve covers.
Wire-brushed the engine to rough up the paint.
Taping up the parts I don't want painted.
Painted with cummins beige. I sprayed two coats and used two cans; one can per coat.
My stepvan came with a mech. temp gauge so I thought I'd find a place for it and hook it up. The pod I bought for my trio of gauges is only for a trio so I found this spot that had nothing in it. With a face plate and a little trimming it should fit fine.
I finally sold my engine (the 2F) this weekend so that means more funds. I spent some time cleaning up the scrap aluminum (removing other metals like bolts, hinges, or screws) from the stepvan so that I get the better rate for it.
Busy week at work and then recording at night but I managed to get a little time on the cruiser. I've been trying to focus on the engine because that's what is holding up the rest of the drivetrain. I needed to do just a little more cleaning before I could paint it and I'll probably open up the front cover again and get to the other bolts behind the gears to locktight them. I ordered my trio of gauges and they will be here by thursday. I got the common setup most diesel guys like to run: Pyrometer, Boost, and tranny temp.
I took off the valve covers so I could get inbetween them to clean out the crud.
Inside of valve covers.
Wire-brushed the engine to rough up the paint.
Taping up the parts I don't want painted.
Painted with cummins beige. I sprayed two coats and used two cans; one can per coat.
My stepvan came with a mech. temp gauge so I thought I'd find a place for it and hook it up. The pod I bought for my trio of gauges is only for a trio so I found this spot that had nothing in it. With a face plate and a little trimming it should fit fine.
I finally sold my engine (the 2F) this weekend so that means more funds. I spent some time cleaning up the scrap aluminum (removing other metals like bolts, hinges, or screws) from the stepvan so that I get the better rate for it.
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