Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Too bad about the tranny problems.
Still enjoying the Rubicon footage. Nice going.
Still enjoying the Rubicon footage. Nice going.
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- Thread starter
- #1,203
update
Let's see how much I can get done since work is pretty crazy right now. So this will probably come in chunks.
It all started with the t.converter. I talked to the hot rod shop and settled on getting my t.converter re-worked for lower stall. I had family here and thought it was a good time to pull the truck down since there was another car around for baby emergencies. This was also close to the time baby was due. I tried just separating the tranny from the engine and leaving the doubler/tcase attached to the tranny.
That worked OK but it wouldn't have been much more work to just separate the tcase to get more room to slide the tranny back. The crossmember for my antiwrap bar was getting in the way. While I had access I thought I'd check on the engine adapter bolts behind the flywheel. Looks like I might have a rear main seal starting to give out.
While the flywheel was out I checked on the flex ring bolts and everything was pretty good.
The old crossmember wasn't looking so straight anymore.
It also had some stress cracks starting to show up.
I think I was concerned with access or clearance for the front driveshaft with my over design. After it was done I started to not like it and with the bending and the cracks it was obvious it wasn't a good design. Nor did I like the access to the bolts that held it in; it wasn't easy to remove. So with the tranny down it seemed like a good time to make a new crossmember that goes under the driveshaft to provide some protection and one that is easier to take off. I decided to make frame mounts like the stock FJ60.
I'm still cutting from the stepvan frame and made these. The angles got welded to the frame and the flate plate got welded to the crossmember.
Here's the crossmember. The plates got welded to the crossmember where the notches are.
I tacked it and trial tested it a couple of times. The t.converter was completed and I installed it and bolted the tranny up to the engine and set it up where I wanted it before I started making the crossmember so I knew what kind of shape I could get away with. As of now the ends still need to be capped and it needs to be cleaned up and painted but for the 2 weeks it was on the road the crossmember held up fine. I will add some more material for where the tranny mounts sit on since part of the mounts are hanging off the pad and causing more vibs than before.
Let's see how much I can get done since work is pretty crazy right now. So this will probably come in chunks.
It all started with the t.converter. I talked to the hot rod shop and settled on getting my t.converter re-worked for lower stall. I had family here and thought it was a good time to pull the truck down since there was another car around for baby emergencies. This was also close to the time baby was due. I tried just separating the tranny from the engine and leaving the doubler/tcase attached to the tranny.
That worked OK but it wouldn't have been much more work to just separate the tcase to get more room to slide the tranny back. The crossmember for my antiwrap bar was getting in the way. While I had access I thought I'd check on the engine adapter bolts behind the flywheel. Looks like I might have a rear main seal starting to give out.
While the flywheel was out I checked on the flex ring bolts and everything was pretty good.
The old crossmember wasn't looking so straight anymore.
It also had some stress cracks starting to show up.
I think I was concerned with access or clearance for the front driveshaft with my over design. After it was done I started to not like it and with the bending and the cracks it was obvious it wasn't a good design. Nor did I like the access to the bolts that held it in; it wasn't easy to remove. So with the tranny down it seemed like a good time to make a new crossmember that goes under the driveshaft to provide some protection and one that is easier to take off. I decided to make frame mounts like the stock FJ60.
I'm still cutting from the stepvan frame and made these. The angles got welded to the frame and the flate plate got welded to the crossmember.
Here's the crossmember. The plates got welded to the crossmember where the notches are.
I tacked it and trial tested it a couple of times. The t.converter was completed and I installed it and bolted the tranny up to the engine and set it up where I wanted it before I started making the crossmember so I knew what kind of shape I could get away with. As of now the ends still need to be capped and it needs to be cleaned up and painted but for the 2 weeks it was on the road the crossmember held up fine. I will add some more material for where the tranny mounts sit on since part of the mounts are hanging off the pad and causing more vibs than before.
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looks good Mike. Saw this in person and it is beefy! Any luck on the last clutch pack in the auto?
Clint
Clint
- Thread starter
- #1,205
update
Yes Clint, luck came my way and I finally got that pack worked in. It took a while longer but with more fitting and patience it engaged. Thanks again for giving me a hand.
Continuing with the update.
With the crossmember holding up fine and enjoying the tighter feel of the new t.converter I wanted to rework the doubler/tcase shifters. For last christmas the family made gifts for each other and I requested some artsy shift knobs. They were a little too big to fit next to each other the way the shifters were so I've finally gotten around to fixing that. Also the engagement was really loosening up due to the way I attached the linkage. I wanted to address that too. I decided to pony up for some rod ends to get a firmer connection. The ends that seemed to fit well would be the 5/16 female kind. I didn't think threaded 5/16" rod would be strong enough so I simply welded bolts to the ends of my existing linkage and allowed for adjustment. I also had to make a new arm for my 203 for the rod end to attach to. The original one caused too much angle for the rod ends to accomodate.
The mounting base stayed the same but I changed the levers. I opted to use 1/4" flat with my collar pieces welded to them for the base of the lever and finish it off with rod. I reshaped them to lower them in the cab and spaced them to clear my shift knobs.
I test fit this many times to get it where I wanted it and the rod ends allowed me to fine tune the position as well as line up the levers. I semi-polished the levers and clear coated them and just slapped some black on the lever base. Here you can see the linkage hooked up.
Here the boot is thrown on.
Over all shot. I want to build up a base for the shift boot so it's not at the angle it was before.
Yes Clint, luck came my way and I finally got that pack worked in. It took a while longer but with more fitting and patience it engaged. Thanks again for giving me a hand.
Continuing with the update.
With the crossmember holding up fine and enjoying the tighter feel of the new t.converter I wanted to rework the doubler/tcase shifters. For last christmas the family made gifts for each other and I requested some artsy shift knobs. They were a little too big to fit next to each other the way the shifters were so I've finally gotten around to fixing that. Also the engagement was really loosening up due to the way I attached the linkage. I wanted to address that too. I decided to pony up for some rod ends to get a firmer connection. The ends that seemed to fit well would be the 5/16 female kind. I didn't think threaded 5/16" rod would be strong enough so I simply welded bolts to the ends of my existing linkage and allowed for adjustment. I also had to make a new arm for my 203 for the rod end to attach to. The original one caused too much angle for the rod ends to accomodate.
The mounting base stayed the same but I changed the levers. I opted to use 1/4" flat with my collar pieces welded to them for the base of the lever and finish it off with rod. I reshaped them to lower them in the cab and spaced them to clear my shift knobs.
I test fit this many times to get it where I wanted it and the rod ends allowed me to fine tune the position as well as line up the levers. I semi-polished the levers and clear coated them and just slapped some black on the lever base. Here you can see the linkage hooked up.
Here the boot is thrown on.
Over all shot. I want to build up a base for the shift boot so it's not at the angle it was before.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Threads
- 162
- Messages
- 4,044
- Location
- Hillsboro, OR
- Website
- www.cascadecruisers.com
I have no idea how you get all this done with so much going on around you. I have to plan for weeks to get 20mins in the garage.
Looks great!
Looks great!
X2 .. you are fast ! ( or I'm too slow .. ?
) it will take me weeks to do waht you get in one hour ..- Thread starter
- #1,210
update
So 2 weeks went by and then the tranny failure. I was ready to not pull that thing out again for a while but Dora had other plans. So, here I am again in a month's time pulling the tranny a second time. This time I separated the doubler/tcase first and then dropped the tranny. I'm thinking if I had bought a tranny jack the first time it would have gotten some use!
Before I actually pulled it I quickly researched some options and found an ad on craigslist for a "manual" 4L80. It was still in the truck but he was willing to part the truck for the right price. It was an 80s chevy utility truck that had a 5.9 cummins conversion done to it. The PO blew a head gasket and kept running it and this guy bought it as a project. He has no time so he was getting rid of/parting it. When I researched about controlling the 4L80 2 years ago the only full manual kit I came across was the transgo kit I have so naturally I thought this tranny had the same thing. I use vacuum to modulate the line pressure and when I saw his tranny I didn't see any kind of vacuum port/fitting so I asked him how it was controlled stating that it was different than mine. He said there was a box in the cab with a knob that shifted it. After a little more talking he asked if I wanted that box with the wiring since he wasn't going to use it and I said YES! I was very interested in how this tranny was controlled because it still used the electronics to do it. The box isn't a computer and was definitely home made and either the PO owner rigged this up or if a shop did the conversion maybe they did it. It has a number indicator to tell you what gear you are in, a switch for t.converter lock up, and a rotary knob with steps to select the gears. I have since mapped out the wiring and understand how it shifts the gears using the solenoids but what it wasn't doing was controlling line pressure. I think I've finally put it all together on how line pressure works/is generated in the tranny. The pump makes the line pressure but is controlled by the t.converter through rpm. The stall on the t.converter determines how much the pump will make depending on how much it slips or doesn't slip. So the system defaults at high line pressure all the time. Now what my modulator is doing and what the electric force motor does is to reduce the line pressure. That's really all it does is reduce. This is essential in cold weather were fluid is more viscous and causes more problems (part of the culprit to my tranny failure). The force motor will reduce the pressure while the tranny is cold and then allow more or full pressure once the tranny is warmed up, depending on the tune. What this electric system didn't do, the new tranny that I picked up, was reduce the line pressure. So he was running around defaulting to high line pressure. Not such a big deal with warm weather when the tranny can warm up pretty quick, but definitely a potential big problem when it's cold. After debating with a friend on how to control that force motor I think I've got a very simple way to get me a reduction in line pressure when cold and allow full pressure once it's warmed up. The details are being worked out so I'll share once I get those figured out but we have a concept we'll try out.
So, when I installed the reworked t.converter in to my system a couple weeks ago I did not readjust my vacuum regulator to reduce the higher line pressure being produced. The tranny dealt with it until it got really cold and that's when the straw broke the camel's back. Had I adjusted for the new stall on the t.converter I probably wouldn't be where I'm at now. Lesson learned. Regardless, now I've got a new system that I am interested in trying out so I will be going forward with the control box and electronics to see what it's like. If I like it I'll fix that old tranny and sell it, if not I have everything to switch back.
Here are both trannies gutted. Old is on the left, new is on the right. The new one was 2wd so I had to swap out the output shaft which meant tear it apart. It was a good chance to see any differences.
Old tranny guts on the left, new on the right separated by the valve bodies.
This is the long output shaft I had to swap out. You can also see part of the 2wd tail cone. The cases were essentially the same so swaping parts was not a problem.
Overall there were some parts from the old that were better and some parts from the new that was better so I ended up choosing the best parts for one tranny. I was hoping for a 5 planetary pack but it was only a 4 just like the old tranny. 5 planetaries = more torque/weight capacity.
Valve bodies. Old left, new right. Transgo kit on the left, pretty much stock on the right. Old was made in 1996 (year of the tranny), new was 2006 so I know that was probably the last time this was cracked open. New has the electronics and the temp sender is in a different spot but everything else looks similar.
Old Case. In the 8 o' clock position you can see an open passage.
New tranny case. No passage. Besides that everything else looked the same.
This is the old pump (which I'm using due to mods). The valve and spring and this cap were in the bottom of the old tranny pan when I opened it up. The circle clip was missing. So it must have failed due to the cold and high line pressure and spit the valve out. It wasn't damaged and I never did find the circle clip. I think it got sucked into the filter and is still there. I'm not using that filter anyways so maybe I'll crack it open to see if I can find it. I reinstalled the valve and spring and replaced the circle clip. Besides that there were no real smoking guns with the rest of the internals. I suspect some retaining rings and maybe a couple of springs on the direct drum so I'll replace those in good faith but everything else looked good. I didn't know this before I picked up the new tranny so while I may have saved the cost of buying a whole other tranny I'm glad I did to get this new system and see what it can do. If it works right I think it will be better than the transgo kit in the old tranny, we'll see.
With my parts choosen, Dirtgypsy came over to give me a hand. I got out the book and we started reassembly. We ran into some clutch pack seating issues that slowed us down and he had to take off. I took a break and worked on it some more. Finally it seated and I was able to continue reassembly. I was about to tighten up the pump bolts when the
needed some kid help so that's as far as I got.
I also took in the t.converter to have the shop test it to see if it was clean since I found a little more sludge in the old tranny pan. I want to make sure it was clean before putting it in the new setup. I took it in Monday and it was forgotten so that also slowed us down. They finished it on Wednesday afternoon while we were working on reassembly.
It should go in fine next week but I'm not sure how far I'll get with controlling the force motor and I won't be driving it until I get that set up. Now I'm up to date.
So 2 weeks went by and then the tranny failure. I was ready to not pull that thing out again for a while but Dora had other plans. So, here I am again in a month's time pulling the tranny a second time. This time I separated the doubler/tcase first and then dropped the tranny. I'm thinking if I had bought a tranny jack the first time it would have gotten some use!
Before I actually pulled it I quickly researched some options and found an ad on craigslist for a "manual" 4L80. It was still in the truck but he was willing to part the truck for the right price. It was an 80s chevy utility truck that had a 5.9 cummins conversion done to it. The PO blew a head gasket and kept running it and this guy bought it as a project. He has no time so he was getting rid of/parting it. When I researched about controlling the 4L80 2 years ago the only full manual kit I came across was the transgo kit I have so naturally I thought this tranny had the same thing. I use vacuum to modulate the line pressure and when I saw his tranny I didn't see any kind of vacuum port/fitting so I asked him how it was controlled stating that it was different than mine. He said there was a box in the cab with a knob that shifted it. After a little more talking he asked if I wanted that box with the wiring since he wasn't going to use it and I said YES! I was very interested in how this tranny was controlled because it still used the electronics to do it. The box isn't a computer and was definitely home made and either the PO owner rigged this up or if a shop did the conversion maybe they did it. It has a number indicator to tell you what gear you are in, a switch for t.converter lock up, and a rotary knob with steps to select the gears. I have since mapped out the wiring and understand how it shifts the gears using the solenoids but what it wasn't doing was controlling line pressure. I think I've finally put it all together on how line pressure works/is generated in the tranny. The pump makes the line pressure but is controlled by the t.converter through rpm. The stall on the t.converter determines how much the pump will make depending on how much it slips or doesn't slip. So the system defaults at high line pressure all the time. Now what my modulator is doing and what the electric force motor does is to reduce the line pressure. That's really all it does is reduce. This is essential in cold weather were fluid is more viscous and causes more problems (part of the culprit to my tranny failure). The force motor will reduce the pressure while the tranny is cold and then allow more or full pressure once the tranny is warmed up, depending on the tune. What this electric system didn't do, the new tranny that I picked up, was reduce the line pressure. So he was running around defaulting to high line pressure. Not such a big deal with warm weather when the tranny can warm up pretty quick, but definitely a potential big problem when it's cold. After debating with a friend on how to control that force motor I think I've got a very simple way to get me a reduction in line pressure when cold and allow full pressure once it's warmed up. The details are being worked out so I'll share once I get those figured out but we have a concept we'll try out.
So, when I installed the reworked t.converter in to my system a couple weeks ago I did not readjust my vacuum regulator to reduce the higher line pressure being produced. The tranny dealt with it until it got really cold and that's when the straw broke the camel's back. Had I adjusted for the new stall on the t.converter I probably wouldn't be where I'm at now. Lesson learned. Regardless, now I've got a new system that I am interested in trying out so I will be going forward with the control box and electronics to see what it's like. If I like it I'll fix that old tranny and sell it, if not I have everything to switch back.
Here are both trannies gutted. Old is on the left, new is on the right. The new one was 2wd so I had to swap out the output shaft which meant tear it apart. It was a good chance to see any differences.
Old tranny guts on the left, new on the right separated by the valve bodies.
This is the long output shaft I had to swap out. You can also see part of the 2wd tail cone. The cases were essentially the same so swaping parts was not a problem.
Overall there were some parts from the old that were better and some parts from the new that was better so I ended up choosing the best parts for one tranny. I was hoping for a 5 planetary pack but it was only a 4 just like the old tranny. 5 planetaries = more torque/weight capacity.
Valve bodies. Old left, new right. Transgo kit on the left, pretty much stock on the right. Old was made in 1996 (year of the tranny), new was 2006 so I know that was probably the last time this was cracked open. New has the electronics and the temp sender is in a different spot but everything else looks similar.
Old Case. In the 8 o' clock position you can see an open passage.
New tranny case. No passage. Besides that everything else looked the same.
This is the old pump (which I'm using due to mods). The valve and spring and this cap were in the bottom of the old tranny pan when I opened it up. The circle clip was missing. So it must have failed due to the cold and high line pressure and spit the valve out. It wasn't damaged and I never did find the circle clip. I think it got sucked into the filter and is still there. I'm not using that filter anyways so maybe I'll crack it open to see if I can find it. I reinstalled the valve and spring and replaced the circle clip. Besides that there were no real smoking guns with the rest of the internals. I suspect some retaining rings and maybe a couple of springs on the direct drum so I'll replace those in good faith but everything else looked good. I didn't know this before I picked up the new tranny so while I may have saved the cost of buying a whole other tranny I'm glad I did to get this new system and see what it can do. If it works right I think it will be better than the transgo kit in the old tranny, we'll see.
With my parts choosen, Dirtgypsy came over to give me a hand. I got out the book and we started reassembly. We ran into some clutch pack seating issues that slowed us down and he had to take off. I took a break and worked on it some more. Finally it seated and I was able to continue reassembly. I was about to tighten up the pump bolts when the
needed some kid help so that's as far as I got. I also took in the t.converter to have the shop test it to see if it was clean since I found a little more sludge in the old tranny pan. I want to make sure it was clean before putting it in the new setup. I took it in Monday and it was forgotten so that also slowed us down. They finished it on Wednesday afternoon while we were working on reassembly.
It should go in fine next week but I'm not sure how far I'll get with controlling the force motor and I won't be driving it until I get that set up. Now I'm up to date.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Threads
- 162
- Messages
- 4,044
- Location
- Hillsboro, OR
- Website
- www.cascadecruisers.com
oh the joys of auto trannys.... hopefully this one works out!
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Thanks for part 10. Brings back some fun memories. I hope you guys come back for this year's run.
Seriously-impressive taking on an auto trans. I would not be that brave.
Seriously-impressive taking on an auto trans. I would not be that brave.
- Thread starter
- #1,215
Thanks, and I think I might have found a temperature controller to turn the force motor on (to reduce line pressure) while it's cold. I plan to update tomorrow or the next day.
I definitely want to come back and do the Rubicon more than once, we'll have to see if that will be next year or not. Again you did a great job at spotting and thanks for watching out for us.
I definitely want to come back and do the Rubicon more than once, we'll have to see if that will be next year or not. Again you did a great job at spotting and thanks for watching out for us.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Just come for the real thing and see it in person. It's even better and it's only 6000 miles.
Do it now before gas is $10/gallon.
X2 and thanks for the vid ..