F to 2F questions

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Thanks everyone. Pighead, your image is pretty much exactly what I'm looking at over here. That and RiderJgs comment are making me feel a lot better.

For good measure, I opened the rear frame bracket holes (image to follow) so it was more similar to the play the stockers had. Opened the front a tad to, then went back to the original F engine brackets. The holes in F brackets looked maybe a 1/8" shifted to the passengers side, but after I got them on, they were the same. :smokin:

The outcome? It's still off, but by about half as much as it was :cool:. Moving to the next step! Time to get everything bolted back together now. If all goes well, I hope to be back on the road next few weeks schedule depending.

Anyway, thanks as always! For those who've read my posts, you've surely noticed a trend of over reaction based on ignorance!
 
1st pic, old smaller studs on rear mount, 2nd pic new larger stud in stock hole before I opened it up. Gave it the same play as the old one had. Helped a bit

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Hi everyone. A lot of you followed my spun bearing thread Help! She died today and won't turn over -UPDATE it's a spun bearing - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/help-she-died-today-and-wont-turn-over-update-its-a-spun-bearing.1265466/ (thanks again to all) Those who did will l know I've decided to move to a 2F transplant. It's a 77 courtesy of abqcruiser Mark and is currently in line to be rebuilt at Empire Engines here in Albuquerque. Since this is my first engine transplant (see other my threads documenting my limited but expanding skill set/newb wrench etc), I'm going the path of least resistance, and have decided to keep my original 3 speed and transfer case. I may go 4 speed down the line, but for now this already has me swimming in questions and confidence that I'm over my head. I've read through the threads on this topic and either didn't see, or maybe overlooked a few things that I'm trying to figure out...I'm sure some of you can help, so here goes.

1. The new 2F has an oil cooler and my 1F obviously didn't. After reading threads on this and deciding to keep the cooler, I've sourced the missing hoses and tubes I'll need, and know I need a different water pump. I also realized I'll need a new thermostat housing (upper and lower). My question is will the thermostat housings from the 60's (later 2F's) fit the 77 motor? The early 2 bolt 2F oil cooler compatible thermostat housings have been discontinued and I can only find the upper piece to order online. I can source the upper and lower housing for 81-87. The gaskets they sell for the lower part seem to show they'll work for the early 2F's so I think I'm good, but I also read somewhere people referring to these as high flow...or maybe that was the thermostat itself? Bottom line, just trying to figure out if this or something like it, will work (see below):


2. I'm trying to source a list of all the little bits and pieces I'm going to need to get it running if I ever manage to get it back and transplanted. I talked to the engine builder today, as I wasn't really sure what little bits would be part of their scope (ie oil sender water temp send, etc..), to which they basically said none of that. so here's a list Ive come up with, some of which I ordered already, some I need some advice on.

a) radiator hoses - ordered
b) intake manifold gasket - ordered
c) fuel pump - mine works but figured lets get a new one...what model should I get for the 77? I see one with a brass top and one that looks like the one on my 73 F
d) oil pressure sending unit
e) thermostat
f) thermostat housing (w/oil cooler) upper and lower and gaskets (see question above)
g) oil cooler hoses and tubes - ordered
h) water pump (w/ oil cooler)
i) water temp sending unit
j) motor mounts
k) oil pump - they didn't mention putting in a new one at the engine builder, but it seems like they would do this if the were gonna button up the oil pan? If they aren't planning to. I'll source one and drop it to them
l) carburetor mounting plate gasket


So what did I miss? The rest of my hoses are all in good order, and I have a brand new dizzy and coil, recently rebuilt OEM carb, new alternator, new power steering pump... I'm sure I'll figure it out once I start the transplant, but want to get as much of it here before this the engine is done.

thanks in advance, and maybe this thread can serve as helpful starting point for other newb-ish folks thinking about this swap...come to think of it, I'll post the other links I've read on this in new post below
Thought I'd add to the list of things I needed to do this that I missed.

j) Fuel pump spacer with 2 gaskets - my 73 F had the original pump with no spacer. I tried both that and a new pump on the 2f and they both needed the spacer

k) water pump pully - I have a Saginaw PS/mini truck PS conversion that has a bracket that keeps the atl and PS pump on the driver side. On the F it needed just one belt. With the new water pump for the Oil cooler set up, the pully is pushed out further so I needed one that seated deeper over the water pump. I researched and found a company called CVF that appears to make what i needed:

1643842397293.png


l) Oil cooler bolt with hole for oil pressure sending unit. The oil cooler I have had 2 solid bolts.


So far that's it. If I come across anything else I'll add it here. Was hoping to be on the road this weekend but this pully issue just came up today as I was trying to get the alternator, PS, fan and radiator back in. I still have the intake/header, carb, plugs, dizzy and fluids. pretty close! Can't wait...probably a few more weeks though. Silverton snowboard trip and the Superbowl next weekend!
 
Ran into one more little issue yesterday. The aftermarket plastic 6 blade fan I got last year is too thick to with the longer oil cooler friendly water pump. Did some searching and the one I have is thicker than some others out there. I ordered an 8 blade that recesses over the pully a lot more, meaning it doesn't protrude out towards the radiator as much. You can see from the pics what I mean. The 6 blade has the bolt holes recessed deeper into the fan's center so it sticks forward farther. It's more than an inch deep, where the other is clearly less. Images below don't fully capture this, but I'm pretty confident this little difference is all I need to get it to fit. I did manage to get the 4 blade orange metal blade on there with room to spare, so worst case I have something that will work. I think the 8 blade should fit though.

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Thanks everyone. Pighead, your image is pretty much exactly what I'm looking at over here. That and RiderJgs comment are making me feel a lot better.

For good measure, I opened the rear frame bracket holes (image to follow) so it was more similar to the play the stockers had. Opened the front a tad to, then went back to the original F engine brackets. The holes in F brackets looked maybe a 1/8" shifted to the passengers side, but after I got them on, they were the same. :smokin:

The outcome? It's still off, but by about half as much as it was :cool:. Moving to the next step! Time to get everything bolted back together now. If all goes well, I hope to be back on the road next few weeks schedule depending.

Anyway, thanks as always! For those who've read my posts, you've surely noticed a trend of over reaction based on ignorance!
You have plenty of company, me included, with needing these experienced guys input... I used to read books and newspapers... Now it's just threads on Mud..
 
I got my plastic 6 blade fan from Mark A. Fit just fine. Are you running that little spacer that goes between the water pump flange and the fan?
 
I got my plastic 6 blade fan from Mark A. Fit just fine. Are you running that little spacer that goes between the water pump flange and the fan?
Got the 6 blade from Cruiser Corp..it's really thick and protrudes out from the bolt holes well over an inch. No spacer used. I couldn't even get the metal 4 blade to fit with the spacer. I have about 3/4" from the metal blade without the spacer to the radiator. I think the flatter 8 blade on should just fit. It gets here tommorow afternoon but I leave town till Sunday. I'll post when I get it on! And then sell the 6 blade!
 
Looks more like a washer that goes on the bolt side?
 
Little update on the new fan blade. I got it in and tried to install it. It solved the depth issue, however I didn't realize till I tried to get the shroud on that the blades were longer than the others I have. Had to trim and grind about a 1/2" off each blade. Took my time and shaped and smoothed them with a Dremel and a file so they were all even. Got it on, shroud in. All done! 1 step closer! Pics to follow
 
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Little update on the new fan blade. I got it in and tried to install it. It solved the depth issue, however I didn't realize till I tried to get the shroud on that the blades were longer than the others I have. Had to trim and grind about a 1/2" off each blade. Took my time and shaped and smoothed them with a Dremel and a file so they were all even. Got it on, shroud in. All done! 1 step closer! Pics to follow

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Little update on the new fan blade. I got it in and tried to install it. It solved the depth issue, however I didn't realize till I tried to get the shroud on that the blades were longer than the others I have. Had to trim and grind about a 1/2" off each blade. Took my time and shaped and smoothed them with a Dremel and a file so they were all even. Got it on, shroud in. All done! 1 step closer! Pics to follow
Wow! Always something, isn't it?!?
 
She's alive!!! Well mostly, she has narcolepsy...got a fuel issue I need a little help on.

She's starts when I put fuel in the carb but only runs for 10-15 seconds until the fuel runs out. Omg does it run nice! The new fuel pump doesn't seem to be pulling. I bought this one (see pic below) and I added the spacer. I still have the original pump from the F and I know it works, but on the F there was no spacer.

Is it possible the spacer isn't needed and by having it on there, the pump is only operating at half capacity because the arm isnt traveling enough? I say this because I unhooked the line before the pump and used my syphon pump and fuel showed right up at the glass filter I have online. It was like it's trying to pull doesn't doesn't have enough pull. That said when it's running, I used to be able to see the gas pumping and sloshing inside that glass filter. It looks pretty stagnant in there. Just now I hooked the syphon pump up right before the the carb so I know there's fuel in the line all the way to the carb. Put fuel in, ran for 10 seconds then died again. To remind, this is an oem replacement carb that Mark rebuilt fore last summer, so that shouldn't be the issue.

Maybe the new pump is bad? Does anyone know 100% for sure if the spacer is needed on a 77 2F?

Soooooooooooooooo close!!!!!!!!!

Screenshot_20220222-175741_Chrome.jpg
 
I just read on Cruiser Corp sales page for the spacer it's for some 79-84 2Fs. Mine is a 77. I bought the spacer because when I tried to install the pump, it didn't seem to seat all the way in..I wonder if it was on the part of the stroke that was pushing on the pump arm and had I bolted it down it would have seated fine with the arm pushed on. Hoping somebody knows the real answer here. I'd love to pop that spacer off and try it tommorow, but if I'm wrong I'll have to wait for some new gaskets to ship to me.

Screenshot_20220222-200307_Chrome.jpg
 
I just read on Cruiser Corp sales page for the spacer it's for some 79-84 2Fs. Mine is a 77. I bought the spacer because when I tried to install the pump, it didn't seem to seat all the way in..I wonder if it was on the part of the stroke that was pushing on the pump arm and had I bolted it down it would have seated fine with the arm pushed on. Hoping somebody knows the real answer here. I'd love to pop that spacer off and try it tommorow, but if I'm wrong I'll have to wait for some new gaskets to ship to me.

View attachment 2934185
H
She's alive!!! Well mostly, she has narcolepsy...got a fuel issue I need a little help on.

She's starts when I put fuel in the carb but only runs for 10-15 seconds until the fuel runs out. Omg does it run nice! The new fuel pump doesn't seem to be pulling. I bought this one (see pic below) and I added the spacer. I still have the original pump from the F and I know it works, but on the F there was no spacer.

Is it possible the spacer isn't needed and by having it on there, the pump is only operating at half capacity because the arm isnt traveling enough? I say this because I unhooked the line before the pump and used my syphon pump and fuel showed right up at the glass filter I have online. It was like it's trying to pull doesn't doesn't have enough pull. That said when it's running, I used to be able to see the gas pumping and sloshing inside that glass filter. It looks pretty stagnant in there. Just now I hooked the syphon pump up right before the the carb so I know there's fuel in the line all the way to the carb. Put fuel in, ran for 10 seconds then died again. To remind, this is an oem replacement carb that Mark rebuilt fore last summer, so that shouldn't be the issue.

Maybe the new pump is bad? Does anyone know 100% for sure if the spacer is needed on a 77 2F?

Soooooooooooooooo close!!!!!!!!!

View attachment 2934018
How long has it sat?
Direct question is how old is the gas in the tank... ??
 

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