Does it matter to you if UC is a part of TLCA?

[Sputnik40]

Alan - Thanks for taking time to post and offer to answer questions. Understanding how busy everyone is, yourself included, I think your effort to reach out and at least be a part of this discussion is admirable.

Now everyone play nice .

 

[DSLTOY]

As STLCA has been mentioned I feel it is appropriate for me to jump in with some comments. As Heather said STLCA is just a chapter as you all are, in the beginning STLCA did represent the South East but as other chapters were formed STLCA became primarily a TN chapter, though we have members outside TN ,most of them belong to support the GSMTR. We are an active member of SFWDA as they are the group working with the USFS to help maintain and keep Tellico open. We have take the lead in trying to get more involvement from the southern Toyota clubs with the Tellico OHV Area and SFWDA, because we know many of you all from the GSMTR and talk with you on MUD. SFWDA is the only reason that Tellico has survived this long and SFWDA needs all the help they can get.

TLCA offers event insurance, and from some of the post it is obvious that many of you don't realize how big of a benefit this is. Most of the insurance carriers have dropped Full size vehicle off road events, including SFWDA. Southern pays 15-20k a year for insurance to cover two events, TLCA charges chapters $264 for event coverage. Currently UC is not holding an event but with the size of your chapter you could easily put on a fund raiser and would then need insurance.
The other advantage of being a chapter is you get a delegate on the TLCA BOD. Most chapter delegates are not very active and leave the decision making to the elected officers. Each officer gets one vote and each delegate gets one vote, there are currently 9 officers and 48 delegates. So if the chapters are not happy with the way things are going they have the ability to vote for change, get involved.

 

[TRT2]

well now that Alan crashed the party...

my UC Friends, I believe questioning your TLCA affiliation is a good thing. And the reality is that TLCA needs UC much more than UC needs TLCA. I don't believe anyone will tell you otherwise and make it stick.

But I would offer to the members of your successful club, somewhere in those goals to have Fun, hang with friends and off road in your Toyota, is a desire to showcase your vehicle of choice (Toyota) and help build and maintain a strong Toyota oriented network (the land cruiser community). UC and TLCA are what achieves that goal. Afterall, without that goal, you would be just another Jeep or mixed vehicle club (not that that is a bad thing either, but I am guessing your members come to UC because of your Toyota only club).

TLCA Chapter requirements call for all Toyota owning members to join TLCA. This certainly is aimed at helping TLCA maintain membership. Is this a bad thing? For some members, yes. Some folks are not going to join, Period. TLCA has always stated that while we require membership of all Toyota owning members, we Never Bird-dog or enforce that rule other than asking for a roster of members in January, and that is mainly aimed at insuring you meet the minimum 4 member count. In other words, TLCA is very appreciative for your clubs efforts to gain new members and help maintain membership, TLCA is never going to rain on your event over members who are not going to join.

This is also the case in my own club, PMC. We too have exceeded 100+ members for years on end and somewhere in that mix of members are folks who are simply not going to join, no matter how much we ask. We don't push it to the ponit of forcing folks out. Like UC, that is not what we are about.

If you exclude individual membership to TLCA, TLCA Chapter status costs you nothing. There is no fee for a chapter to be a chapter, other than asking all Toyota owning members to join. At a minimum, you have to submit a roster displaying the minimum 4 active members. Hey, have fun with it and claim largest chapter!! I think you have it at over 100.

For being a chapter, you get to send a delegate to the board. As stated earlier in this thread, no matter what association you belong to, you need to send an active delegate. We want active delegates. In addition to having a delegate on the board to represent your club, you get your club listed in Trails with contact info. Your club can have a chapter report anytime simply be writing it and sending it to Todd.

If you are waiting for someone from TLCA to approach your club and do fantastic things for it, then you will definitely be disappointed. TLCA members are just folks like you and I who belong to their local club, attend events hosted by other chapters, and get Toyota Trails. I have always stated TLCA Chapters are what brings TLCA home to the members.

Even after your weigh the pros and cons, and should you decide to let your chapter status slip (which is fine, TLCA has allowed clubs extreme autonomy and flexability), Alan and I certainly hope that you maintain a positive attitude towards TLCA and educate your new members about TLCA and encourage them to join. We are very appreciative to the members here who have stated that regardless of club direction, they will maintain their membership.

TLCA is only what you make it. Alan and I ask that you folks continue to make Upstate Cruisers the 'TLCA' of your area and state. That way when folks ask 'What is TLCA?', we can state it is Upstate Cruisers and all the fine folks who belong to that fantastic and energetic Chapter Club!

Thank you for allowing us in. We support you regardless of your final direction for we really just want your club, and any club, to be successful.

 

[CC Shuett]

The bottom line is that TLCa is much like your local club; a bunch of friends with a common interest, that add up to whatever it's membership puts into it.

alan

Yeah...........what he said!!

We are all connected because of our love for and interest in TOYOTA, no matter your choice!!!

 

[Chef]

Hey, I'm glad to stop in and chat anytime...but, it took someone "back channeling" the thread to me. I just don't have the time to surf up all this sort of stuff on my own.
But, I'm more than willing to chat anytime, and I'm easy to find...sorry if that makes it sound like the burden is on y'all to reach out.


alan

Alan - Thanks for taking time to post and offer to answer questions. Understanding how busy everyone is, yourself included, I think your effort to reach out and at least be a part of this discussion is admirable.

Now everyone play nice .

 

[ClemsonCruiser]

In other words, if you think TLCA is not doing enough of any one thing to suit you, then become part of the answer. Yes, Greg Mumm, TLCa member is the Pres of the Blue Ribbon Coalition...but he's only one guy, in one part of the country. Any land use issue is best addressed by local people implementing local solutions.

This is a very good point Alan, and something we are trying to work on as a club. It is the one thing that is missing from this great club of ours........ we have to become more active and vocal about our local land use issues. I know currently Heather (K9crazy) is working very hard to help in Tellico's pending lawsuit, and we will be hosting a work day up there prior to our up coming trail ride there. I also know that Steve (eventhough) is in the early stages of trying to make contact with the local FS to see if we can not develop a volunteer labor relationship focused on maintaing one of our favorite and most beautiful local offroad opportunitys Cullowhee........ so that this way we can be proactive instead of reactive and hopefully Cullowhee won't end up in the same situation as Tellico........

 

[HercDriver]

Really?
I'd sure appreciate an explanation of that?

Alan, this is not a personal attack on you, your leadership, your officers, any of your volunteers, or any of TLCA's policies or positions. It is a discussion point commentary on the limits of organizations, especially volunteer organizations, and it is certainly germane to this thread.

High level leaders make policy, that is their job. At the high levels of large enterprise, USAF, GMCorp, IBM, TLCA, or whomever, by the institutional necessity of their policymaking responsibilities, and/or by their geographically imposed communicative distances, they will inevitably make policy that is intrusive and obstructionist when viewed upward from the action workers in the field. There is not a one of us who has not felt that reality. It cannot be avoided, it is an institutional fact of life.
In the field, when the chips are down and a decision has to be made with facts and resources at hand, policy has little to do with anything other than being a guideline. Additionally, insofar as the requirements of the decision at hand, policy at that point, is insignificant.
How UC becomes more involved with TLCA, certainly needs to be examined from this perpective.


Actually this admonishment is directed as much, if not more, toward ourselves at UC than it is toward TLCA. We are a rapidly growing club without benefit of years to develop infrastructure and traditions. We need to take a hard look at the position articulated above, along with taking a hard, critical look at ourselves. We too, can quickly become a big outfit who has lost touch with its membership. We too, can quickly become "last month's milk. An ill advised change of leadership here, a faulty step there and there you are.

Mud doesnt need explanation, it is the tie that binds.

If anyone reads my position as advocating abdication from TLCA, they miss the point entirely. Nothing could be further from the truth. The limits of organizational size and the pitfalls therein certainly should be examined and this is the thread for it. UC should stand on its own legs and move forward as Mr Twiddy so eloquently articulates. I agree completely.

If anyone was offended, don't be, none was intended.
It is just tough discussion about ourselves, and how we can miss our goals if we aren't tough on ourselves.
Ken

 

[mmcinnis]

Lets tiptoe alittle here. (Option One) You can let TLCA get involved in one of UC events to see what they have to offer. (Option 2) keep on keep in on with our own deal. No worries..

TLCA over the years has helped to keep the Landcruiser movement going forward. We might not even have a club if it wasn't for the trailblazing leaders of the first chapters and Toyota enthusiast. Try to think of Toyota without Landcruisers??? Yeah, where would we be Today???

UC has a great group of members--FRIENDS--and thats what its all about, Nothing else..The trucks are just a way to meet new friends and enjoy the outdoors.

Morgan and I had a great time at the UC barbi.

 

[GXO]

So reading all of this makes me feel this way:

- UC needs to decide if they want to step up and champion an eastern surge in TLCA activity.
- UC need to decide if they want to stay a chapter (this is a no brainer since it is almost effortless)
- UC needs to decide what we can do to help ourselves.

I see this in the GA Cruisers as well...there is a complete disconnect that the TLCA, UC, or whomever is a company with 100% dedicated resources. We are all part-timers for sure.

We are who we are because we choose to assign these labels to ourselves. To sign up, slap a sticker on, and do nothing more, then complain that nothing happens is a silly position to be in. I don't think UC is in this boat, but there are plenty that are. I can't do much actively due to work and my kids, so I try to attend events, participate online, and lead rides, etc as I am able. I would cause more harm than good in a leadership role right now. Therefore, I am not allowed to complain

 

[HercDriver]

What? Me help

Au contraire, bon ami !

We are all leaders, all of the time. You do great PR on the trails and at events, so don't sell yourself short, and don't stop.

Plus, if you fail to participate (complain as you call it) you may be sitting on the key idea that moves the train.

If only

so I try to attend events, participate online, and lead rides, etc as I am able. I would cause more harm than good in a leadership role right now. Therefore, I am not allowed to complain

 

[GXO]

I will never stop doing what I can, merely saying it may not be as significant as what could be done (a la Troll and Alex). I will always represent on the trail, but I do that because I am an offroader that enjoys the sport. I will never leave someone behind, I will always offer to help, spot, etc. That is who I am, and I think who the UC people are....which is why I am UC...which circles back to "we are who we choose to be"

 

[Gundy]

from the peanut gallery

My .02 for what it's worth.

The club designated me to get us chapter status
about 10 years ago. We are a chapter, and proudly so.
Alan hits on a good point. It's just a bunch-o-friends
sharing the Cruiser experience. It is what we make of it.
I know I'm having a blast.
I don't expect much from the UC or TLCA. I do those things
I wish to do and skip on the other things.
If we as UC ever host some sanctioned type event the insurance
benefit of TLCA is a BIG help. Such an event has long been
a dream of many members.
I served as UC delegate for several years and found the BOD meetings
.....entertaining....to say the least. LOL...heck I've even had to battle
disgruntled member's lawyer at one. Hehe....TLCA won that one.
I watched the BOD become very professional and keep minutes
and adopt rules of order. Kudos to the BOD.
In many ways UC mirrors TLCA. We've both had our ups and downs
yet somehow continue to attract new members. I guess people having
fun draw a crowd.
As for staying a chapter, I'd say yes. They, TLCA, don't hassle us
or serve to UC's detriment. So, why not remain a chapter?
Open discussion like this is very good for the body politic of UC and
TLCA. I sense TLCA really wants to be helpful.
Kudos to Marshall for broaching the issue and same to Alan for stepping
up and easing some members concerns.
I don't want to see UC placing requirements on members other than
"come on down and join the fun".
Lack of strict rules is what makes UC such an attractive club.
I used to say"UC promises nothing and expects less". Somehow
we always do a lot and get even more in return from our members.
Hehe...we NEVER meet a stranger in a Cruiser.
Ohm...cruiser,cruiser,cruiser....Ohm
Guess it's time for me to re-up to TLCA and set a positive example.
I normally do at GSMTR time but other priorities caused me to miss
out this year and let my membership lapse. Mea Culpa from #72I6

 

[TRT2]

My .02 for what it's worth.


I served as UC delegate for several years and found the BOD meetings
.....entertaining....to say the least. LOL...heck I've even had to battle
disgruntled member's lawyer at one. Hehe....TLCA won that one.

Mea Culpa from #72I6

hehe... you saved our butts too!

if I ever forgot to say thank you, let me say it now... thank you.

 

[Gundy]

hehe... you saved our butts too!

if I ever forgot to say thank you, let me say it now... thank you.

Thank YOU Tony! You carried TLCA through rough seas.
Then again...That's what a good Capt'n does for his crew.
Your steady hand on the rudder was appreciated by all.

 

[CruisinTiger]

I have been reading thru the posts since my last one and TRT makes a good point about...if you expect someone to call you up and do fantastic things, you'll be disappointed....and I think that is what initially started this thought process with UC on whether to continue our club status with TLCA. And you are right we are all common folk with a bunch of trucks that some of us beat the livin hell out of and some you could park at the White house and not be ashamed of it...so we don't have a lot of time. I think communication, and it always comes down to communication, is lacking between TLCA and it's members....WAIT...now before everyone starts ranting, let me explain. Now I just went and looked the the TLCA forums on here. Maybe to ramp up the communication the BOD of TLCA should have all the club presidents email addresses and send out monthly information to the pres. of clubs. And it can be nothing more than hey there is a thread on mud that needs your attention and input. Now this may already be done and I'm speaking on ignorance....but just a suggestion. Just so that the clubs have a little more connection to TLCA....cause force comes in numbers and the more numbers you have behind you the more we can be successful at i.e. land issues..insurance rates...east meets west rides..etc etc etc. So just some ramblin to put some ideas in some heads and things to build on. Good luck and the best to all.

Chuck

 

[Mongofj60]

This club has grown tremendously since I was president. New leaders, all of our great members and this forum making communication so easy has everything to do with it.
But we're still the same, guys with old yotas getting out in the woods to see some nature or shining them up and getting some grub together. Our growth has nothing to do with TLCA.
However I like UC being part of a bigger, international organization that really loves the same thing, our yotas and getting together. Plus I do love Toyota Trails.

We control the destiny of the club. Us and no one else. They are not going to search us out to help us in any way. Nor should they, we are big enough to start helping spread the word about UC and TLCA. I have always felt we should one day try putting on a TLCA sanctioned event such as GSMTR at Uwharrie. Could be cool, make the club some money, bring in some surrounding Cruiserheads and get UC even more known in the Cruiser community. Now the question is what would be the best way to advertise this event just on Mud or in the magazine, I say if every person in every club received the magazine, that would be the winner. Keep the TLCA association.

 

[little_joe]

If it is not overly onerous to maintain TLCA chapter status and if it doesn't cost the club much (or anything), I say remain part of TLCA.

However, the powers-that-be have to decide if it is onerous.

And where money is concerned, use it locally or regionally.

In the past BRC and UFWDA have selectively joined causes - I understand their financial and human resources are limited. But for us Easterners, BRC only seems to jump in the high-profile cases, such as Tellico. If you approached them about Cullowhee or maybe even Uwharrie, you'd likely get no help. Neither one would get the least bit involved in some huge issues we had in Ohio a few years ago; and neither jumped in on GWNF issues, and now those trails are closed or completely graded. An org like SFWDA will be closer to issues that matter to us, and IMHO deserves support.

I've always maintained that for clubs like this, when money is involved for *anything* more than strictly club business - swag, collateral, etc - problems arise that divide the club.

 

[BMThiker]

Lots of good thoughts coming out here. This conversation seems to be a good exercise of self inspection. We all still want to be UC members. And it sounds like there is more positive to negative for maintaining TLCA chapter status.

What stands out is that we all want to protect the trails we love, especially in our corner of the world. Some expect the upper management to take the reins, but in this type of organization, it's got to start with the individual members. It starts with trail etiquette and willingness to help a fellow wheeler. It moves on to trail cleanups and other community work. The next important step for UC is to get involved in proactively engaging the authoritative bodies that control the trails and land. All the while proudly showing off the UC logo and what it stands for. (I still say let's lose the J**p Rescue Unit type paraphernalia - bad karma).

It sounds to me like we are headed that way with k9crazy and eventhough's efforts. We can go further by having other UC members spread the word to others outside of UC or even TLCA for that matter. If we can keep a clean track record and uplift the ideals of tread lightly, then with our member volume, I am sure we can spread the word.

Marshall started this thread with a simple question, but it has sparked a lot of response. I'm not even sure Marshall was aware of the type of ideas that would come from his question.

I think at first it was a question of money, not the "onerous" tasks involved with maintaining TLCA status. If portions of our dues can be diverted to BRC and SFWDA and these diverted funds can make a difference, then I say let's do it.

My .02 for now.

 

[Hulk]

Howdy guys,

I just thought I'd chime in a bit too.

When I joined TLCA back in 1996, it was one of the only sources of information I could find about my new-to-me FJ40. Maintenance and repair articles in TT, plus the ads, made the cost of membership a bargain. Plus I ended up finding out about Windy City Land Cruisers (RIP) because of TLCA, and made a bunch of friends. Times have changed. Now you can get all of the things I got when I originally joined TLCA from a web site.

Many people in UC are very connected with UC, but hardly connected at all with TLCA. I would say the same is true of Rising Sun, the club I have been proud to serve as president the last 3 years. The people you connect with are the folks with whom you wheel, wrench, drink beer, go camping, etc. Those are going to be your best friends, naturally.

One thing I have found is that when you do go to another TLCA event in a part of the country that ain't your home turf, the TLCA connection makes for some fast friendships. I went to Flat Nasty in Missouri last year, and it was great. Met a bunch of cool people.

But back to local vs. national: in our case Rising Sun vs. TLCA. We have about 60 members, and I bet 59 of them would tell you their loyalty would lie with Rising Sun first, then TLCA. That's the way it is. Hell, that's the way it should be.

We still value being connected to the greater Toyota 4WD community through TLCA. We host a couple of yearly events, Cruise Moab and our Rally in August. We often get TLCA members from distant locations to attend, and we make certain they have a great time. We've made great friends from all over the world through TLCA.

Personally, I think there is some prestige that goes with being a TLCA chapter. And I think it's a matter of loyalty as well, but that's just the way I'm wired (and I've been a member for a long time).

It may not be entirely evident what UC gets from being a part of TLCA. But all of us is better than some of us, and we'd sure miss you if you left.

- - - - - - - - - -

FYI, it's been a while since TLCA was a west coast deal. If you look at the BOD and contractors, you have quite a few people from Missouri, Colorado, and Texas. Our treasurer is in Iowa. Our admin is in Kentucky. We're all over the place these days.

- - - - - - - - - -

Another FYI: Sorry about the broken Land Use link. The TLCA banner on the ih8mud forums needs to be updated (by me, cough cough). The latest Land Use column can be found here:
http://www.tlca.org/trails/2007/0708/opengate.shtml

 

[Land Schmoozer]

Insurance

Three years ago we paid over $1500 for a very small event we have in Iowa. The last quote I got was over $5000... let's see $268 or $5000... hummm...

Don't need to be no bean counter to cipher that one...